Encounters: The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed!/Encounters - The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed (1995).iso/altalien/alt27.txt

Internet Message Format | 1995-10-20 | 1MB

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From: [e-mail] (Timothy Childs)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #2 (Friday 18 Sep)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Sep 92 00:43:58 GMT
References: <c53n!=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Lines: 3



Thank you for posting the entire list.
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Baldwin)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 12:32:50 GMT
Organization: Atheist for the Development of a Better God
References: <pt2ny#[e-mail]>
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In article <pt2ny#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>And the nominees to date:
>
>Geoff Miller

    Now, wait one minute here! Which Geoff Miller are we talking
about here? Do you mean Mr. Alt.tasteless 1991 and the Mayor of Peevetown?
Or is this the Australian GunNut(tm)? The people have a right to know
before they have to decide.
    So, just to clear up all confusion, I will nominate BOTH of them.

--
"Hey, Guido! It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the cheese and
you're the lemon merchant. Getit? And he knows it! That's why he's gonna kill
us. So we gotta beat it. Yeah, before he lets loose the marmosets on us! - Ren
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 06:40:53 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 18

Dear Hu-mans and Hu-women: Well here it is saturday morning and all
is well. The one who takes the cake in this 9th week OOBE train is
Bridgette of Grass Valley. She wound up in going into astral projection
and a bunch of chinamen wound up at the foot of her bed. It might have
been the ghost of about 22 chinese people who lost their lives when
a gold mining hole fell in an killed them on the North Fork of the
American River near Gold Run near Auburn, Calif. but then that is another
story. Maybe I can get my friend Art Martin to take his Angel Band over
and rescue those souls one of these days. In regards to our big ESP
experiment with Big Al, he wound up going to sleep but not to worry
I did pick up a lot of information about him and will check with him
to see if it was correct. If it wasn't correct then I probubly won't
tell anyone about it because that will make me to appear less than
perfect and we wouldn't want that, would we. Anyway please don't take things
to seiously. 5,000 years from now some group will be
looking at the remains of our civilization and be discussing whether
or not we even existed (Atlantis).
John Winston
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxb.isc.rit.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 13:24:05 GMT
Lines: 41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Pat Monardo) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) says:
>>>
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>>>>>In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>>>>
>>>>I suppose this means you won't vote for Gorby: fair enough, there's
>>>>room for opposing points of view here.  As you didn't make another
>>>>nomination, I'll add:
>>>>
>>>>Walter Cronkite.
>>>>
>>>
>>>how about someone that is not a CIA spokesperson, and would like to
>>>expose the secret government(s) for what it is?
>>>
>>>Bill Moyers.
>>
>>  How about someone who wasn't a master of propaganda for Lyndon Johnson
>>and can talk about what's really important...
>>
>>Xaviera Hollander
>>
>
>How about someone who understands the art of propaganda
>and can talk about what's really important
>
>The Little Fleshy One (Cicciolita sp?)
>
>--
>-- Pat Monardo
>-- [e-mail]

    how about someone who just doesnt care? someone who makes you think
they are going to discuss important things, but instead sits in a chair and
reads you _green eggs and ham_ by dr. seuss and at the end of each page turns
the book around to show you the pictures? thats what i want to see. someone who
does something nice, like a read a children's book, instead of giving me their
know-it-all attitude on world affairs.
                lee
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Sep 92 16:23:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> perfect and we wouldn't want that, would we. Anyway please don't take things
> to seiously. 5,000 years from now some group will be
> looking at the remains of our civilization and be discussing whether
> or not we even existed (Atlantis).
> John Winston

The geostationary satellites should be a bit of a give away together
with the odd footprint and assorted junk on the moon. Did the Atlanteans
never launch anything into space then?

--

Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 16:56:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Voice of the Voiceless
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
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In article <[e-mail]> Chris Baldwin writes:

>    Now, wait one minute here! Which Geoff Miller are we talking
>about here? Do you mean Mr. Alt.tasteless 1991 and the Mayor of Peevetown?
>Or is this the Australian GunNut(tm)? The people have a right to know
>before they have to decide.
>
>    So, just to clear up all confusion, I will nominate BOTH of them.

Done.

--
Rick Gordon       | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly
[e-mail]  |  and I did.  I said I didn't know."  M. Twain
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 16:59:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 26

Many of you no doubt recall the excitement last June concerning a supposed
video of a UFO shown on "Hard Copy", taken from a NASA camera on the
Space Shutle (STS-48). Certain UFOlogists of little critical acumen
insist that it is a UFO being chased by some "secret weapon," even
though NASA says, quite correctly, that the objects are just tiny pieces
of ice being pushed away by an attitude control thruster firing.

Well, I understand that the "Sightings" program on FOX-TV has scheduled
a six-minute segment on that "NASA UFO" on its show to be broadcast
Sept. 25.  James Oberg and Don Ecker will appear to debate the matter.
It seems that "you just can't keep a good UFO down," no matter how
BAD it may happen to be!!



--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Where can you get a good regressionist these days?
Message-ID: <mt4n5!=[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 17:20:21 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>Does anyone know how one might go about trying to track down a good hypnotic
>regressionist in one's area?  I have a friend that recently experienced a
>classic case of missing time, and we'd like to investigate it.

       You could try a dowsing rod. I've heard that works well.
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Pat Monardo)
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 18:39:51 GMT
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>    how about someone who just doesnt care? someone who makes you think
>they are going to discuss important things, but instead sits in a chair and
>reads you _green eggs and ham_ by dr. seuss and at the end of each page turns
>the book around to show you the pictures? thats what i want to see. someone who
>does something nice, like a read a children's book, instead of giving me their
>know-it-all attitude on world affairs.
>                lee

you mean someone like Captain Kangaroo

--
-- Pat Monardo
-- [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jyri L. Palm)
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in ads
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 19:49:30 GMT
Lines: 25

[e-mail] (Keith Rowell) writes:


>I'm trying to catalog the use of UFO/alien themes in
>advertisements, especially in nationally distributed ads
>in the print or electronic media. Here's what I have so far.
>If you have any information on others, please email me or reply
>to the net. Thanks a lot.

>I'll periodically send out what I have so we can see how this
>current infatuation with UFO/alien themes develops through the 1990s.

>Keith Rowell

The October, 1992 issue of "Food & Wine" page 54 has a UFO-theme ad.

It is a full page ad and the fine print identifies it as "National
Federation of Coffee Growers of Columbia."

The top 9" is a black and white fuzzy photo of a UFO hovering over some
trees and houses.  The bottom 2" simply has the phrase "We know why
they're here." followed by the Columbian Coffee logo, and the trademark
"The richest coffee in the world."


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jyri L. Palm)
Subject: EXPIRED!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 19:58:31 GMT
Lines: 9

Does anyone know when and how a Usenet article gets "flagged" as expired?

I just was reading the 143 articles, only to watch the last 95 wizz by
as "expired."  Why is the useless "crap" preserved for so long (i.e. -
John Winston - which is ok to look at if it happens to be there), but
the really interesting stuff has been wiped out?

Sounds like a conspiracy of disinformation here...

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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 21:44:20 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <z!1nw9=[e-mail]> <s#1n#[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Lines: 181

In article <s#1n#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:
>
>Much of what the above book talks about has been written about in other
>works. Perhaps none as infamous as "Alternative 3". I have a copy of
>this book, and if you are intersted, I will tell you how to get one
>yourself, since I understand that some people have been looking for it
>for years and never got it:
>
>East-West books, Menlo Park, CA 415- 325-5709
>
>In the alternative 3 book, there is a great body of evidence, if only
>some of it is circumstantial, that these are facts that have been
>kept from us just as the UFO story has been. If fact, it could be the
>main reason that the truth behind extraterrestrial visitation is a
>secret...

Now that the tired, old "Alternative 3" hoax is making its way again
around Conspiracy circles, I scanned in an article I wrote 13 years ago,
when it first surfaced. Guess what: you Conspiracy folk have been taken
in by an old April Fool hoax!





                           "BOOK, HYPE, AND SNOOKERED"
                               by Robert Sheaffer

             (Book Review reprinted from the Nov.Dec., 1979 issue of
                    the now-defunct magazine, "Second Look")



        ALTERNATIVE 3

        by  Leslie  Watkins, David Ambrose and Christopher  Miles.
        New York: Avon Books, 1979.


             Can  a book be banned from sale in the United States?  Well-
        known  UFOlogist  Gray Barker [died 1984] claims in  his  regular
        column  in UFO Review (June, 1979) that this one was. The  book's
        thesis that the end of life on earth is coming, and that only the
        elite  of the world can be rescued, is purportedly  too  shocking
        for  the government to permit the book's release. "I'm not  going
        to  risk  trouble  by  trying to get  a  copy,"  Barker  shudders
        (although  after I effortlessly obtained a copy of  the  original
        British edition, no "Men In Black" came pounding on my door).
             An American edition of "Alternative 3" is available now.  It
        is not difficult to see why the government might want to suppress
        the  book, *if* what it says is true*. East/West tensions  are  a
        deliberate  fraud,  it says, a smokescreen thrown  up  to  divert
        attention  from the real danger now reportedly facing the  world.
        The  eco-alarmists are right, the authors contend: the  world  is
        now  facing  certain extinction due to  an  accelerating  runaway
        greenhouse effect resulting from the buildup of carbon dioxide in
        the atmosphere from the combustion of fossil fuels. Alternative 1
        was  supposedly discussed by an elite panel  of  end-of-the-world
        brainstormers,  and rejected as being impractical and  hazardous:
        using  a  series of nuclear explosions to "punch  holes"  in  the
        supposed  envelope of carbon dioxide. Alternative 2 - moving  the
        elite  of  mankind  to  live in underground  cities  -  was  also
        rejected as impractical and undesirable.
             That leaves us with Alternative 3: transporting the  world's
        intellectual  and  governmental elite off the  earth  completely,
        using the moon as a way-station in the colonization, and eventual
        terraforming,  of  Mars.  The technology to  accomplish  this  is
        alleged to already be in existence: the space program as we  know
        it is said to be just a diversion from the *real* space effort, a
        joint  US/USSR venture, which is far more advanced than  everyone
        has  been  led to believe. A lunar colony is claimed  to  already
        exist, managed by the elite "designated movers," where a corps of
        de-sexed,   lobotomized   slaves,   tactlessly   called    "batch
        consignments," performs all of the manual labor.
             It  is difficult for the casual reader to know what to  make
        of  Alternative  3. The book purports to  be  non-fictional  (the
        British  edition  carries  the  categorization  "World   Affairs/
        Speculation"),  an  adaptation of a supposedly  earth-shaking  TV
        documentary  produced by Anglia TV. It is filled with  references
        to  real  persons and real events. Otto Binder  *did*  make  wild
        claims about weird objects that the astronauts supposedly sighted
        in  space. Gerard O'Neill [died 1992] *did* make  headlines  with
        his advocacy of space colonies (the US/USSR conspirators are said
        to  have  debated whether Professor O'Neill should be  done  away
        with,  since he knows so much: "not necessary," they  decided.  I
        wonder  if  he  realizes how close to death  he  came!)  We  find
        references to Senator Edward Kennedy, astronauts Mitchell, Aldrin
        and  Armstrong  (as  well  as  a  fictitious  moon-walker   named
        "Grodin"), UFOlogist Dr. David Saunders and many others. We  find
        many apparently authentic quotes from newspapers and magazines.
             Yet  the  book  is obviously a novel. The  dialogue  is  too
        contrived,  and the protagonists' slam-bang uncovering  of  layer
        after  layer or treachery and conspiracy is typical of  low-grade
        spy  novels. Can anyone truly convince himself that top  American
        and Soviet officials meet regularly in docking submarines beneath
        the  arctic ice cap to review conspiracy developments,  and  that
        the  transcript  of their ultra-secret deliberations  would  read
        like this?

             American  2:  I  told you we should  have  killed  that  guy
             Gerstein . . . way back in February . . . I said that he was
             dangerous . . .
             Russian  4: My friend is right . . . he did say that. And  I
             pointed  out that Gerstein's talk could start a panic  among
             the masses . . .
             A 8: . . . and I propose an expediency.
             A 2: Seconded.
             R  8:  Those in favour? . . . then that  is  unanimous.  The
             method?
             A  3:  How about a telepathic sleep job . . . maybe  with  a
             gun.
             R  8:  that  seems  sensible  . .  .  it's  too  soon  after
             Ballantine for another hot job.

             Gray  Barker  devoted a full column to the book  because  of
        information received from an unnamed Major so-and-so. (The  hints
        Barker drops appear to be chosen to make us immediately  conclude
        "The  Major" to be former NICAP director Major Keyhoe. But it  is
        not.  It is a different retired Major [Wayne Aho], living on  the
        West coast, not nearly as well-known as Keyhoe, who has long been
        associated with Adamski-style contactees.) The Major attempted to
        buy  one  hundred  copies of "Alternative 3"  from  the  Canadian
        publishing firm or Thomas Nelson & Sons. Jim Gifford, the manager
        of  the  paperback division, informed the Major  that  the  order
        could not be filled because, in his ill-chosen phrase, "the above
        title has been banned from sale in the United States."
             The  Major apparently sent a copy of this letter to  Barker,
        who picked up the football and ran a hundred yards, charging that
        this book was suppressed in the U.S. because it was  embarrassing
        to the authorities, and that the "space program is a hoax" movie,
        "Capricorn One", was canned prematurely, supposedly for the  same
        reason.
             Since, however, the full letterhead of Thomas Nelson &  Sons
        is  reproduced in the Barker piece, I wrote to Gifford asking  if
        "Alternative  3"  really  was banned in  the  United  States.  He
        replied   that it is unfortunate that Barker did not contact  him
        before rushing off to print, as it would have saved  considerable
        embarrassment  on  both their behalfs! The reason  the  book  was
        supposedly  "banned"  in the U.S. , he explained, was  that  Avon
        Books  had purchased the U.S. paperback rights. Had the  Canadian
        firm  filled the Major's order, it faced the risk of  a  whopping
        lawsuit from Avon Books.
             But are the startling claims of "Alternative 3" true? How do
        we  explain the interviews with whistle-blowers, the tie-in  with
        missing  persons,  the clues to allegedly  mysterious  deaths  of
        prominent  persons? Our British readers already know the  answer:
        April  Fool!  As reported in "The Times" of London  on  June  21,
        1977,  the day after the TV version was  presented,  "Independent
        television  companies  last night received  hundreds  of  protest
        calls after an Anglia programme, "Alternative 3", giving alarming
        "facts"  about changes in the earth's atmosphere. It was a  hoax,
        originally  intended for April 1." Reporter Alan  Coren  observed
        that  "the year's worst kept secret was that Alternative 3 was  a
        spoof  .  .  . if you know that 'a hoax is a hoax,  how  can  you
        possibly  attack it for lacking authenticity?" He suggested  that
        had  he not been in on the "secret" in advance, while  the  total
        preposterousness  of  the story itself might  not  have  deterred
        belief, the acting was so unconvincing as to remove all doubt.
             It  seems  that  we Americans, who  almost  never  read  the
        British  press  and whose own media have said  virtually  nothing
        about  this  matter,  are  having our  credulity  tested  by  the
        promoters  of "Alternative 3". Some of us have already  risen  to
        the  occasion, mustering credulity above and beyond the  call  of
        duty: Major A., Gray Barker (the first to write a book about  the
        supposedly  mysterious  "Men In Black," whose existence  has  now
        been swallowed by Hynek, Vallee, Keel, Clark and many others), as
        well  as Timothy Green Beckley, editor of "UFO Review". Don't  be
        the  next  to  bite the hook. The marketing  of  "Alternative  3"
        represents a real-world test of the old adage that a fool and his
        money are soon parted.
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!LMJ4805
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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Reply-To: [e-mail]
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References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 18:23:19 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Everybody: Kebo it sounds good your suggestion about changing it
>to l993. Jeff all you have to do is go to sleep a little before 110 PM
>Calif. time and give yourself a presleep suggestion that when you go
>to sleep you'll allow the rest of the astral train group to come up and
>pick you up. I've suddenly got a mental block as to what the name of the
>city that is just above the Gobie Desert. Maybe it will come to me
>when we go there tonight. D and E usually have their own place that
>they go, probubly aboard some spaceship or something like that and
>that OK too.  Bill your right anyone with any sense wouldn't do this
>sort of thing in public.
>John Winston.

    i have limited experience with self hypnotism, and i am wondering if it
possible for anyone to do this with you guys. do you have to know me? do i have
to know you? what kind of preparations should i make? should i hypnotize myself
and suggest that i am picked up by the train? i am very curious about all this,
any info would be appreciated.
                lee
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From: [e-mail] (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1993 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 17 Sep 92 08:28:52 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:

    I don't really have anything to say about last July.  I just wanted to
    change the Subject: line to 1993, so that perhaps this thread can
    survive another year.  Have a nice day.
                                -- K.

And stop those astral projections of your signature!
--
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     If elected, Zippy pledges to each and every American a
 |warren@      55-year-old houseboy...
/ nysernet.org
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a1432
From: [e-mail] (Gary D. Lee-Nova)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Spokesperson for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Sep 92 00:23:43 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world
Lines: 8



By my reckoning, the is only one human being on the planet who has the
necessary qualifications;

  William S. Burroughs


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!agate!usenet
From: [e-mail] (William E. Grosso)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesperson for Earth
Date: 20 Sep 1992 00:56:52 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
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Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinoko.berkeley.edu



This is rather bizarre. We're trying to pick a Spokesperson for EARTH.
Somebody to represent us in Outer Space. And everybody is suggesting
either
    1) People who are celebrities in America.
    2) Diplomats involved in the cold war.

The first category is absurd. The second is better. But, it seems more
likely that we're going to need a representative who isn't
used to dealing from a position of strength. Who can hold his own
in ticklish situations. More than that, we need someone
with a forceful personality. Someone who won't back down
(unless it's absolutely necessary). And, someone who won't be afraid
to do a little dirty work in our best interests.

Thus, I place in nomination : Idi Amin.

Bill Grosso
(only half joking)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Mike J. Brown)
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in ads
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 03:02:21 GMT
Lines: 20

>9. June 1992. Miller Lite commercial features a dog in a
>rural ranch setting hearing something. He goes out back
>where a party of 20 or more aliens is having a good
>time. This segues into a segment on crop circles ending
>with the work "Lite" as a crop symbol.(KR)

I saw a commercial very similar to this one a few times within the past
year, before this one started airing.  The one I saw, which I think was
also for Miller Lite, had a reporter standing in a field speculating on
the causes of the crop circles, when all of a sudden in the background
you see a bunch of guys carrying a huge, thick, round metallic object
above their heads.  They run to a spot behind the reporter, who babbles
on unaware of the activity no more than 30 away, drop the disc and mash
the wheat, pick up the disc, and run off.  It was hilarious.

Mike
--
Mike Brown
[e-mail]
"The Universe is a spheroid region 705 meters in diameter."
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Joseph Good)
Subject: Alien evolution theory
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 02:57:54 GMT
Lines: 29


Here's a quick theory while I'm waiting for a fractal to generate...

On grey, pleadian, or any other alien evolution advancement:

I think a question was brought up on how these creatures could be so
far advanced than us, when the system they live in is younger than ours?

If a society comes very proficient in genetic engineering, there would
not be a need for natural selection any more. Evolution would be
controled in a "as needed" fashion.  Once that stage in technology is
reached, then who knows what could be done.  Suppose we had complete genetic
control over our DNA.  We could create a race of "scientists" with IQ's beyond
anything we can imagine, and their whole purpose was to theorize and formulate
idea's then put them to use.  Think about it...

So, they may not have been around much longer than us, just developed genetic
technologies before we did.  Maybe we'll catch up

--

Joseph Good
+-------------------+ - More than just a band....
| Green Dot Brigade | - It's a whole damn army of dots...
+-------------------+ - And we've declared war on the 7-Up dots...

[e-mail] (NeXT mail welcome!!) (main account)

[e-mail]  (Just plain ol' Unix) (seldom used)
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!ziff!markp
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Sep 92 18:39:23 EDT
Organization: Ziff-Davis, Medford MA
Lines: 35

Hello,

I was reading a book I recently got in the Time/Life series Mysteries of
the Unknown, the title is Alien Encounters I.  A few pages of the book
touched on the ancient Sumerian culture, it was really the first I've
ever heard of them.

One of the main contributors to this subject in the book, was a guy (forget
his name) who is supposedly only 1 of 200 or so people that actually can
understand and translate Sumerian writings.  There was a picture of a
stone tablet, in which was carved a graphic representation of our solar
system, which was amazingly accurate.  Keep in mind this was supposed to
have been made at some point around 1-2 thousand BC.  The picture showed
12 heavenly bodies, one of which was the center point and largest, the Sun.
It accounted for all 9 known planets, including Pluto which we've only known
about for 40 or 50 years, and the Moon.  Now it gets spookier.

Sumerian writings also reffered to Uranus and Neptune as the 'twin planets'.
The 12th heavenly body, beyond Pluto according to the writings, had such
a wide orbit, that it would take 3600 Earth years to complete 1 revolution
around the Sun.

It was also written that the original Sumerians were actually from this 12th
planet.  Their planet's atmosphere was slowly being lost to space, and they
needed gold (most abundant on Earth) to cure the problem.  Humans were
supposedly made from a combination of these alien's genes, and genes from
apes, and were intended to do the mining for the alien's.

I know this sounds wierd, but it was interesting to read about.  Does anyone
know any more about this, or know of any books on the subject.  I will type
in the article and post it if there is sufficient interest.

Please post responses, thanks!

Mark
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From: [e-mail] (Arbaline)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies
Keywords: Sneakers
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Sep 1992 05:24:11 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 28

The recently released movie "Sneakers" contains references to
extraterrestrials and government conspiracies. In this well done
comedy drama suspense movie, we have a bunch of guys skilled with
cryptology and other super-spy skills trying to keep the ultimate
computer code breaking device from falling into the wrong hands. A
couple of the heroes used to work for the government, and one of them
was always going into various government conspiracies. For example,
there is a line where he says something like:

"...so they take this Extraterrestrial Biological Entity up for an
interview with Eisenhower, and Ike says, 'Hey, in exchange for your
technology, you can have all the cattle lips you want!'" ... (to which
his companion says "Oh gawd I don't have to listen to this crap!")

Anyway, later he's reading a paper and makes the remark to his
companion that "cattle mutilations are on the rise!" In various
sections throughout the movie he makes references to other government
conspiracies, like the JFK assination, as well. The interesting thing
is that most of what he says is in accord with the main conspiracy
theories as expounded on this group, so the movie makers did their
homework. Actually, IMHO, the whole movie is very well done, and is
delightfully done in good spirit, and yet has the vision to present
various insightful statements concerning our moderm post-cold war
world, so I give it my recommendation.

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|      Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     -     [e-mail]      |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!TRADER
From: [e-mail] (Paul Vincent McGinnis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: re spokesperson for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 23:16:30 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
Lines: 8

I presume the discussion about spokespeople for Earth had something to
do with the Associated Press article a few days ago about radio astronomers
having over 60 examples they believe are intelligent communications, but
they were unable to keep the signals locked for more than a short period
of time. My nomination : Laurie Anderson - she can sure describe the
human condition...

Paul McGinnis / [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!TRADER
From: [e-mail] (Paul Vincent McGinnis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: the -REAL- MAJI
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 23:22:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
Lines: 6

I finally found a government reference to MAJI - the US Dept. of Commerce's
National Technical Information Service (NTIS) uses MAJI as an acronym
for the Tanzanian Waters Ministry (presumably something in French about
Minstrie Aqua---).

Paul McGinnis / [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 08:03:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Sneakers
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Arbaline) writes:
>The recently released movie "Sneakers" contains references to
>extraterrestrials and government conspiracies. In this well done

I have not seen the movie yet, but when I saw the Redford was in it,
I knew then that it would have a political, conspiracy slant, and I
have had a mental note to see it soon since. Did anyone see the movie
he was in, where he works for the CIA and he reads books? Someone highup
in the Agency decides that everyone in his office needs to die, and he
just happens to be out getting lunch, comes back and they're all dead.

Anybody remember the name of that movie? It seems that since that time
Redford has had a great interest in how the secret government operates
and what is "really" happening.


Jeff -
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: [e-mail] (Sean Eaton)
Subject: The Portal.
Cc: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 08:35:17 +0000
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes :

[Lifted from the body of the text] :

>Subject: The Portal. Part 1.

[...]

John, I've done it for you this time, but when you start a new mini-series
could you *please* change the subject line in the news header (and not
the top of the text) to something appropriate instead of posting
it as a reply to old (and now stale) threads like "July 4, 1992" and
the "Newage" ones ?
I don't know how the Portal System is configured but I should imagine it
does allow you some editorial control over the subject line.

-Sean.
---
[e-mail] | [e-mail]
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 08:41:50 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <z!1nw9=[e-mail]> <s#1n#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Lines: 135

Although I do hate to beat a dead horse, it does seem that
we need to set the record straight here with the pertinent
facts such that people will not feel inclinded to subscribe to
any proffered party line...

Contrary to what people have written about reading in the Fortean
Times and in Roberts latest post about Alternative 3, there are many
issues surrounding the original broadcast in the UK Commonweath, and the
subsequent book that are simply not addressed by cries of
"hoax' and "april fools, ect."

This initial airing on UK television was quit a stir for the
folks over there. The show that originally broadcast and produced
it was called the Science Report, a documentary non-fictional
program, up until the time that the Alternative 3 program had been
aired. So the folks tuning in were expecting non-fiction. Part of
the mystery here all along was, "What had prompted the producers to
deviate from the regular menu of documentary programing?

It seemed very out of charactor, and must have been prompted by
some interesting ideas they wished to promote.

The book was published in 1978, the documentary in 1977. The authors
of the book were Leslie Watkins and David Ambrose. The TV program
aired with actors credits following the program at the end. This
program aired June 20, 1977, so it seems that the April Fools pitch
is contrived at best.

Anyway, the different network presidents quickly issued statements in
Britain, Cananda, and Australia claiming the show to be a hoax...
seemingly by preasure from above. And the author Watkins has publicly
stated that the book is 65% true, and 35% fiction. So in reality it is
many facts collected together to support a fictional(?) conspiracy
theory in the grand tradition that all conspiracy theories are
postulated and proposed.

Some of the ideas proposed in 1977's Alternative 3 were somewhat ahead of
great public exposure to a host of environmental threats that we
hear of daily in 1992;

Global Warming

Co2 release

Overpopulation - Well, this one's been around a while, but it seems to
be the one that no matter what, will bring use face to face with
the mortality of the race, regardless of how well the planet can handle
the first two issues in the next decades.

Deforestation

These topics were first brought to light in a conference held in
Huntsville AL in 1957, the main topic even back then being the
Greenhouse effect. One of the actors who was in the TV production
actually attended the conference.

One of the most interesting things about Alternative 3 is that there were
facts reported on the show that were not released to the press untill
over a decade later, and issues came up that seemed to be verifyable
concerning Mars by visual evidence observable from Earth.

First, the actor portraying a Prof. Girstin reported that a Russion
missile carrying an atomic warhead had blown up on the pad in 1960,
killing hundreds of Russian scientists. The reported mission of the
rocket was to deliver it's warhead to Mars in the attempted terra
forming of the planet. Life magazine stated NASA has
openly discussed the terraforming of Mars, in its May 1991 issue
"Our Next Home, Mars, Bringing
a Dead World to Life"...

It was not reported until 1991 by Russian authorities that in fact a
rocket had exploded in 1960, killing more than 200 Soviet space experts,
a missile reported to be part of thier balistics program (nuclear).
So it becomes clear that the producers of the program had access to
secret information at the time the program was aired.

If you look closely, it becomes obvious that the program contained
information that was much more than just vivid imagination, it was
a product of investigative journalism, with some explainations for
anomylous observations thrown in, such as never seen before cloud
formations on Mars, observed from earth.
Although officially, these observations were attributed to violent
storms more powerful than ANY previously seen, could it be that
the US/USSR does have a secret space program, they are actively
attempting to terraform Mars, and we are seeing the effects of
nuclear detonations that are creating these cloud formations on
Mars?
These are the questions that the book and the TV production ask,
and it would seem that the authors were somehow privy to information
the public was not...

There are many books on the theory of the secret space effort, and
while many of these theorys upon first investigation seem to be
very far out, even outlandish, there is one thing you can be very
sure of:
NASA is charged with many duties that they do not speak of, there is
a space effort by the US that is not publicised, there are
technologies being used that could be far in advance of what we
consider to be possible at this time, and that they won't tell use
about it until they feel it will somehow promote thier agenda. What
ever that agenda is;  we don't know what it is, because of
a trite little expression called 'national security' that has outlived
its justifications.

Furthur reading if your interested includes:

International UFO Library magazine - Vol. 2, Article by Tony Dodd

Moongate: Suppressed Findings of the US Space Program - W. Brian II

We found alien bases on the Moon (or somesuch book I have seen around,
but don't have yet.)

The Secret Space Program - Herbert G. dorsey III (this book seems to have
more information regarding Alternative 3 than anyother I have seen.)

Cosmic Top Secret - William Hamilton

The Vindicator Scrolls - Stan Deyo

The Cosmic Conspiracy - Stan Deyo

Behold a Pale Horse - William Cooper

The Anit-gravity Handbook - Dr. Childress

UFO Crash at Aztec - William Steinman


Jeff-





Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm
From: [e-mail] (Pat Monardo)
Subject: Re: Spokesperson for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 16:18:19 GMT
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (William E. Grosso) writes:
>
>
>This is rather bizarre. We're trying to pick a Spokesperson for EARTH.
>Somebody to represent us in Outer Space. And everybody is suggesting
>either
>    1) People who are celebrities in America.
>    2) Diplomats involved in the cold war.
>
>The first category is absurd.

why? i say we chose Cicciolina and if the alien leader refused
to suck tongue with her, we blast them.

--
-- Pat Monardo
-- [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg
From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 17:36:45 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Music of the Spheres in Stereo
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 45


As this is the penultimate Spokesman for Earth Nomination Update, it's
appropriate to review the campaign and voting procedure at this juncture.

Following the close of nominations at 00:00 GMT Monday, 21 September,
the campaign will begin.  Nominees and their supporters are encouraged
to post articles to alt.alien.visitors arguing the case for the
nominee.  The campaign will end at 00:00 Monday, 28 September 1992.

The Email address of the voting booth will be announced in this
forum in advance of the vote.  Votes timestamped from 00:00 Monday,
28 September to 00:00 Wednesday, 30 September 1992 will be counted.
The winner will be announced Friday, 2 October 1992.

And the nominees to date:

Mikhail Gorbachev        Walter Cronkite         Bill Moyers
Xaviera Hollander        [e-mail]    Leader Kibo
Cyrus Vance              Cicciolina              John Major
Dr. Timothy Leary        Mother Theresa          Pierre Salinger
Jesus of Nazareth        Pele                    Stephen Hawking
Margaret Thatcher        Geoff Miller, American  Gene Spafford
Mel Gibson               Carl Sagan              Hilary Clinton
Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno                      Boris Yeltsin
Steven Spielberg and George Lucas                "The Pope"
Gary Stollman and John Winston                   The Dalai Lama
Pee-Wee Herman           Robert Redford          Cindy Crawford
Richard Nixon            John Romer              James Burke
William F. Buckley       Barbra Streisand        Princess Diana
Rick Gordon              "Anybody but David Frost"
Dizzy Gillespie          Umberto Eco             Johnny Carson
Nelson Mandela           Anita Hill              Ingmar Bergman
Samuel Ramey             Aretha Franklin         John Updike
Frank Sinatra            Li Po                   Jimmy Carter
"Anyone in Bangladesh, Somalia, or parts of the former Soviet bloc that have
been ruined by pollution"                        Ted Williams
"someone who does something nice"                Geoff Miller, Australian
Robert Sheaffer          Captain Kangaroo        William S. Burroughs
Idi Amin                 Laurie Anderson         Mary Shafer

Nominations will remain open until 00:00 GMT Monday, 21 September, 1992.

--
Rick Gordon       | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly
[e-mail]  |  and I did.  I said I didn't know."  M. Twain
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 08:29:44 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 33

Subject: The Portal. Part 2.
  There is also a book (Smoky God by Willis George Emerson) that tells the
story about a man and his son that equipped  a small sailing ship for about
a one and one half years ocean trip.  They sailed towards one of the poles
and after a while rather than the weather getting colder the farther north
they traveled, the weather started getting warmer. It finally got so warm
that they could sit out on the front of the boat in the open air.  They
found that at times there was red colored pollen in the air.  Finally they
saw a sun on the horizon that was not where our sun was supposed to be.  It
seemed that they were sailing over the edge on a temendously big lip of the
earth.  When they finallly got to the indide of the earth it was lighted by
a centeral sun.  They then came in contact with some very large people who
were 15 or more feet tall. Now I may be getting the information from two or
more books mixed up here. It has been a long time since I read all of this.
The man appeared as a child to them.  The inside of the earth men had large
full beards.  They were a peaceful race of people. After sometime the man
and his son attempted to leave.  The son finally made it back to the outside
but after telling his story the people thought he was crazy and he quit
telling his story for the rest of his life until he told the story again in
full to another person as he was about to die.
  The next thing I heard about all of this was from a couple of tape
recordings made by Dr. Wallace Halsey who is the nephew of Bull Halsey.
Wallac was an engineer and a person who disappeared on a plane flight
between Nevada and Utah (or two states in the USA). It was said that UFOs
had something to do with his disappearance.  His wife and friend Tarna
Halsey collected a nice sum of insurance money about 10 years following his
disappearance (or at least I was told this from another source). Back to the
tape recording though.  These tapes exlained how he and his friends made a
trip up to Alaska to investigate the fact that flying saucers had been seen
coming and going out of a hole that was in Alaska. This hole also led into
the center of the earth.
End Part 2.
John Winston
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9518 alt.conspiracy:18434
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!caen!uvaarpa!concert!samba!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Bruce Scott)
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Sneakers
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 19:17:28 GMT
Lines: 23

[e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:
>...Did anyone see the movie he [Robert Redford, also in "Sneakers"]
>was in, where he works for the CIA and he reads books? Someone highup
>in the Agency decides that everyone in his office needs to die, and he
>just happens to be out getting lunch, comes back and they're all dead...

"Three Days of the Condor" -- the three days are those in which he had
to survive before his pursuer changed sides and told him what he had got
into. In the last scene, the pursuer (Max von Sydow, if I remember
right) explains that he will someday be caught up with. Then saying,
"For that day...", hands him a body pistol and walks away. Pretty good
one, that.

Gruss,
Dr Bruce Scott                             The deadliest bullshit is
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik       odorless and transparent
bds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de                 -- W Gibson

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: geolab3.geo.mtu.edu
Organization: Michigan Technological University
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 19:21:57 GMT
Lines: 9



I read somewhere  - I forget where - that the Sumerians were
the first to brew beer.  Even spookier....


X

--
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9520 sci.skeptic:31240 alt.conspiracy:18435
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!umeecs!dip.eecs.umich.edu!sechrest
From: [e-mail] (Stuart Sechrest)
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr. News)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
References: <s#1n#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 20:41:34 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:
>
>One of the most interesting things about Alternative 3 is that there were
>facts reported on the show that were not released to the press untill
>over a decade later, and issues came up that seemed to be verifyable
>concerning Mars by visual evidence observable from Earth.
>
>First, the actor portraying a Prof. Girstin reported that a Russion
>missile carrying an atomic warhead had blown up on the pad in 1960,
>killing hundreds of Russian scientists. . . .
>It was not reported until 1991 by Russian authorities that in fact a
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>rocket had exploded in 1960, killing more than 200 Soviet space experts,
>a missile reported to be part of thier balistics program (nuclear).
>So it becomes clear that the producers of the program had access to
>secret information at the time the program was aired.

Sorry, but this story appeared years ago.  See James Oberg's
``Red Star in Orbit'' from 1980 or 1981.  It was a prototype for their
manned space flights and had nothing to do with nuclear rocketry.

--Stuart Sechrest
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!gtephx!holms
From: [e-mail] (Steve Holm)
Subject: Re: Unsolved Mysteries UFO story
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: I saw lights like were on the home video
Organization: AG Communication Systems
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1992 23:17:30 GMT
Lines: 21

About 4-5 years ago I was out in the national forest north of
Flagstaff AZ, and saw something exactly like what was shown in
the home movie segment (group of lights at one end and single
light some distance away).  No noise, very large, very slow
moving but unfortunately it appeared to be a few thousand feet
up.  Convinced for years I had seen some sort of UFO, I found
myself at a fire lookout atop a nearby mountain years later.
We were asking the lookout if he ever saw any UFOs. He wouldn't
admit to seeing anything strange but did suggest that the
military practiced in-flight refueling in the area at night
and maybe we were seeing a sighting pattern on a tanker plane.
It was a bit of a letdown to now think I hadn't seen a UFO.
But last night's program showed something exactly like what I
saw and said nobody could identify it. My question is, does
someone know exactly what kind of light pattern would be used
for refueling, and would it be something like what was shown on
the home video clip?
--
Steve Holm  AG Communication Systems  Phoenix,AZ
internet: gtephx![e-mail]
uucp:     ncar!noao!enuucp!gtephx!holms
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 16:24:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 31

Subject: Ruins Of The 30,000 Year Old City. Part 10.
  With in seconds they were back at Lancaster, Caif. (out in the desert).  The
whole trip didn't last much more than 20 minutes. R. mentioned how the
Pleiadians had contacted Hitler a long time ago and about the aryan race. R.
didn't want to have anything to do with it. I had always thought of the
people form the Pleiades as all being a lot of straight  shooters who always
wore white hats. R. said it is true in most cases but these people have the
power to do whatever they want.
  R. still didn't want to work with these people and told George that he
should get something from outter space and give it to a science fiction
magazine  because they were offering a one half  million dollars for proof
of something from outter space or UFOs or what have you. This made George
very mad and he wouldn't even talk to R or another friend George had for
more than 15 years.
  R. then contacted George and asked him, "What's going to happen if I go to
the News Media, the government and tell them the whole story"?  Then George
told R. that he would deny  the whole thing. So R. never told me who George
was, what organization he is with and I don't want to know.
 One of the stories taht R. told me was so far out that if you have a weak
disposition maybe you had better stop reading this right now.
  Sometimes at night R. said that he had heard something let out screams. It
wasn't a woman, bobcat or any type of animal he had ever heard before.  He
never did see what it was.  A couple of his friends did say that they had
seen something that stood up like a man that was about 6 feet tall.  They
started trying to get closer.  It was standing out on a ledge. They thought
it was a man until it flew away. The only thing that they could explain, was
that it was a pterodactyl.  I know those reptilian, skin covered remnants of
the dinosaur age were supposed to be dead and gone a long time ago but that'
what it looked like to them.
End Part 10.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jcatesii
From: [e-mail] (James Cates III)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <pt2ny#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 01:13:00 GMT
Lines: 7


Re: Spokesperson nominations

An obvious choice seems to have been overlooked; Douglas Adams would
do a grand job.


Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9524 talk.bizarre:74894
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Saga of the Family of Light II
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Sep 92 14:40:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
> These family of light beings and the Pleiadians seem like very round about
> long-winded talkers who have read too many new age books.  Why are we always
> being told how to run our lives by beings not even on this planet?  these
> Pleadians also talk about being duped and being careful of who we watch for
> from the skies.  Why should we believe even the Pleiadians then?  Personally, I
> think it is better to take control of your own life instead of letting anyone
> or any alien lead you around by the nose.  I've seen too many people do that
> and then blame everyone else for their problems.

Yes, those pesky little aliens are at it again, trying to muss-up your
life.  Just say no to aleiens poking their antenna into your business.

Jason
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9525 talk.bizarre:74895
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_*
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Sep 92 14:41:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>
>
>     Helleo, folks
>
>     We've enjoied a nice tour in Alps. Last night we come back by train
>     and have a big sleep until we waked up at 4:30 AM in the morning. I
>     look at the darkness outside the window. Suddenly I find  a  slight
>     light spot floting about in the sky. It's about 300m away  from the
>     train. It keep the same speed and flying without any noise. I taked
>     out my camera to shoot a few pictures. Later I asked my friends  to
>     have a look on that UFO. But just in that very instant it disappear
>     in a unbelieveable speed.
>
>     Fortunatlt I already get some negatives in my camera so  that  it's
>     hopeful to win that bet. Hmmm ... all those  sleeping  friends  all
>     flamed at me and didn't believe it !!! It's Okay for me so I bet 40
>     US$ with them. Cause the train it's still in Sweden and we will use
>     those money for breakfast ...
>
>     Our train is leading to south. Both two side are snowing cliff. The
>     Snow cover the bare stone and soil, make the sence pretty beautiful
>     and everybody enjoy it ...
>
>     BTW, the temperature will be continuly hot for a few weeks so we do
>     enjoy a sunny tour this time. And I will take that 40 US$  after  I
>     have processed the film 8-)
>
>     Ha, nice to talk with everyone here. Have a nice day !!!
>
>         IMHO, I am learning how to process film now 8-)

This is my favourite posting of the week.

Jason
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jcatesii
From: [e-mail] (James Cates III)
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 01:35:12 GMT
Lines: 18


Regarding a theory (loosely termed at best) that the Sumerians
could have been from a 12th. planet located farther from our only
Sun than Pluto (and supposedly so far that it orbits only every
3600 Earth years!):

Even 3 or 4 seconds of thought should offer that this is absurd.
How in the world does a corporeal being survive in that sort of
freezing waste? Earth is as populated as it is because of its
ideal distance from a Sun of ideal size within the time of life's
duration so far. When our Sun grows toa given size we shall have
to move on obviously...perhaps _then_ we could survive more easily
on a Mars or even a Saturnian Moon or two...things will change.
The fact remains that said 12th planet would be so cold as a result
of it's amazing distance from the heat source (Sun) that no life
compatible with existence here could survive there.


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg
From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update
Message-ID: <x95n8c#[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 02:25:03 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Phone Home
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> James Cates III writes:

>Re: Spokesperson nominations
>
>An obvious choice seems to have been overlooked; Douglas Adams would
>do a grand job.

Yes, I agree it's a pity Mr. Adams was not nominated before the deadline.
Perhaps he can be used in advisory capacity, perhaps not.  It's out of
my hands, really.

--
Rick Gordon       | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly
[e-mail]  |  and I did.  I said I didn't know."  M. Twain
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr Usenet)
Nntp-Posting-Host: lanai.cs.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 03:25:33 GMT
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James Cates III) writes:

>Regarding a theory (loosely termed at best) that the Sumerians
>could have been from a 12th. planet located farther from our only
>Sun than Pluto

>Even 3 or 4 seconds of thought should offer that this is absurd.
>How in the world does a corporeal being survive in that sort of
>freezing waste?

And even if there were some sort of internal heat source or a
greenhouse effect, it would at least be very dark. Were Sumerians
(or their "gods") blind and without skin pigmentation?

-- Brad Pierce --

Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9529 sci.skeptic:31253 alt.conspiracy:18438
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 06:06:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <s#1n#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Lines: 67

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:
>
>The book was published in 1978, the documentary in 1977. The authors
>of the book were Leslie Watkins and David Ambrose. The TV program
>aired with actors credits following the program at the end. This
>program aired June 20, 1977, so it seems that the April Fools pitch
>is contrived at best.
>
>Anyway, the different network presidents quickly issued statements in
>Britain, Cananda, and Australia claiming the show to be a hoax...
>seemingly by preasure from above.

Yes, that's the standard response among conspiracy-ologists when any
significant source repudiates wild claims made in his behalf. "Oh, the
Conspirators *made* him deny it!"

>Some of the ideas proposed in 1977's Alternative 3 were somewhat ahead of
>great public exposure to a host of environmental threats that we
>hear of daily in 1992;
>
>Global Warming
>
>Co2 release

Oh, all this stuff is old hat. I can remember the first Earth Day in 1970,
nothing has changed.
>
>First, the actor portraying a Prof. Girstin reported that a Russion
>missile carrying an atomic warhead had blown up on the pad in 1960,
>killing hundreds of Russian scientists. The reported mission of the
>rocket was to deliver it's warhead to Mars in the attempted terra
>forming of the planet. Life magazine stated NASA has
>openly discussed the terraforming of Mars, in its May 1991 issue
>"Our Next Home, Mars, Bringing
>a Dead World to Life"...
>
>It was not reported until 1991 by Russian authorities that in fact a
>rocket had exploded in 1960, killing more than 200 Soviet space experts,
>a missile reported to be part of thier balistics program (nuclear).
>So it becomes clear that the producers of the program had access to
>secret information at the time the program was aired.

Codswollop. Jim Oberg wrote of the rocket disaster in his "Uncovering
Soviet Disasters" approx. 1987. It was known to specialists long
before that. It was not until 1991 that the Russians *admitted* this
was true. And it was NOT a nuclear explosion,  it was a chemical rocket
that blew up. The Russian scientists insisted that it was unsafe to
service the rocket on the pad without draining the fuel, but Krushchev
insisted they do so to keep ahead of the Americans. Many of their top
experts were killed in the explosion, a major setback for their space
program.

And as for "terraforming", that's been kicking around a long time.
Oberg wrote a big article on the subject for "Astornomy" magazine
about 1975. His book "New Earths" was published in the late 70s.

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 06:14:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <x95n8c#[e-mail]>
Lines: 22

I am pleased to accept the nomination for "Spokesman for Earth." I am
prepared to shamelessly beg, plead, or grovel for votes, as may be
be required.

My platform is simple: If somebody shows up and claims to be from another
planet, I will quite adamantly state that I do *not* believe them. If,
however, they present evidence that appears convincing, I will announce
the news to the press, but only after selling first rights to the story
to the National Enquirer for an unspeakable sum. After all, what is the
point of being "Spokesman for Earth" unless one can make a buck from it?

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah
From: [e-mail] (David Harwood)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >>> for Cyrus Vance, asst. Carl Sagan <<<
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: VTT
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 07:39:21 GMT
Lines: 20

I nominated Cyrus Vance, as spokesman for the Earth. He is well-respected
internationally for his career in government and international diplomacy,
currently serving the U.N. in Yugoslavia and South Africa. He has been
a long-time advocate of arms reductions and nuclear test bans.

I also recommend Carl Sagan, among this list of nominees, to assist the
spokesman as scientific advisor. He is a respected, competent and
conscientious scientist, very knowledgeable of general science and
technology of Earth. He has been a long-time advocate of arms control and
enviromental concerns.

Among others, I think the two best understand, in a practical sense,
the contemporary social and scientific situation of Earth, are trust-
worthy and well-respected internationally, and would best represent us
as spokesman and advisor.


D.H.
\\\\\\\\\\\\

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!pjb
From: [e-mail] (Paul J. Brewer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Date: 21 Sep 1992 09:21:58 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 11
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

With the advent of school and my teaching assistantship duties rapidly
approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven
planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim
the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in
Fall of 1992. Well, where is it? Am I actually going to have to TA
undergrad econ again or what?

(interesting how you don't see any articles about this anymore, isnt it?)

Paul

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!penny.WPI.EDU!drwho
From: [e-mail] (Eric Ant Von Laudermann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Date: 21 Sep 1992 13:29:57 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 18
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: penny.wpi.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul J. Brewer) writes:
>With the advent of school and my teaching assistantship duties rapidly
>approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven
>planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim
>the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in
>Fall of 1992. Well, where is it?

>Paul

It's coming October 28, and will be disguising itself as Jesus Christ
in order to trick people into thinking that that the Rapture is here.
Haven't you been keeping up on this newsgroup?  :-) :-) :-)

--E.V.L. ([e-mail])        # "No.  Try not.  Do.  Or do not.  There
Disclaimer: "It's all absolutely    # is no try." --Yoda
devastatingly true, except the bits #
that are lies."  --Douglas Adams    # "Just do it." --Nike

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11847 alt.alien.visitors:9534 sci.skeptic:31268
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 06:45:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 17

Subject: Giant Rock Airport:
  There was an incident that happened at Giant Rock Airport many years ago
that I would have liked to have seen. George VanTassel who was the owner of
the airport was having a meeting of people who were interested in UFOs. It
was sort of a study class. There were quite a few people in the room and
George made the statement there could possubly be some space people even in
the room as they were having their class.  A person spoke up and said that
he himself was a person from space.  George then asked him if there was some
way that he could prove that he was from space.  The S. M. then asked if
becoming invisible would prove it. George then got very excited and said,
"Yes, that will do just fine."  The S. M. then proceeded to become invisible
while they watched him. George then said, "That was great. Wound you please
do that again?" The S. M. did.  The S. M. then said that another person in
the room was also from space but the person close not to make his or her
presence known because that person worked among the regualar people of earth
and didn't want his or her identity to be made known.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!yale!news.wesleyan.edu!eagle.wesleyan.edu!jtulli
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesperson for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Sep 92 20:30:03 GMT
Organization: Wesleyan University
Lines: 6
Nntp-Posting-Host: eagle.wesleyan.edu

well, i don't know if this is valid but since other people have nominated
people who are no longer with us (in the same incarnation anyway...)

i nominate Harpo Marx.

Jude
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9536 alt.conspiracy:18445
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Winstollman. Acid AND Lithium !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 07:53:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Flamers: I do believe that all of the people who flame me are talking
in this particular group. It seems like you are having a lot of fun.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where can you get a good regressionist these days?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 08:06:54 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <mt4n5!=[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

David asked where to get a person who deals with abduction and regressions.
There is a Hypno-therapist in the San Francisco Bay Area that a few
of my friends have gone to and have gotten good results. Her name is is
June Steiner. She lives in the Los Gatos, Calif. area and her phone
number is 408-378-5771.
John Winston
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9538 alt.conspiracy:18446
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 08:29:53 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 18

It seems that Keith is on to something here. It is my opinion that the
government is going about a thing called Operation Awareness in which
they are trying to spoon feed us a little bit of the truth and see how
we react to it. They made a deal with the Greys and now want out of it.
Many years ago the space people were shown as monsters and out to get us.
The next thing they did was to paint them as being nice little guys like
the movie E. T. Now they are telling the truth in the TV movie The
Intruders.
The good guys are still out there and we're still fooling around with a
bunch of Greys who are abducting our people and not bringing some of them
back. I've got one small suggestion; tear up the contract with the Greys
ask the good guys (like the silver fleet from Mt. Shasta, or Don Showen's
friend's from the Pleiades or the Ashtar Command) to come in and make the
Greys leave. The good guys want to do it but are held back because the
Greys say they have a contract with us.
At the present time we are being soft-soaped through commercials to get
us to liking the space people and that does to me seem good.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: VCR alert:  Unsolved Mysteries - 16Sep92
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 08:42:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Alan, I glad you posted this information about UFOs on the Unsolved
Mysteries. They seem to put out the truth. I once saw a person in
Arizona who had been in the service during the Brentwater Incident
in England and they did report that story very close to the truth.
Dur to your mentioning the show I'll be sure and watch it.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!LMJ4805
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxb.isc.rit.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
References: <pt2ny#[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 13:19:58 GMT
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In article <pt2ny#[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:

    stuff deleted here

>Quite a few nominations for Earth Spokesman have come in, some in
>And the nominees to date:
>
>Mikhail Gorbachev
>Walter Cronkite
>Bill Moyers
>Xaviera Hollander
>[e-mail]
>Leader Kibo
>Cyrus Vance
>Cicciolina
>Dr. Timothy Leary
>Mother Theresa
>Pierre Salinger
>Jesus of Nazareth
>Pele  <====================do we mean the soccer player, or the fire goddess
of the hawaiian islands?

>Stephen Hawking
>Margaret Thatcher
>Geoff Miller
>Gene Spafford
>Mel Gibson
>Carl Sagan
>Hilary Clinton
>
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 09:03:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Dear People: Someone sent me a list of people through the mail. I'll
do it if you give me a pick of my running mate. Just me and JC.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >>> for Cyrus Vance, asst. Carl Sagan <<<
Message-ID: <kr6nb##[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 92 16:10:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 43

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Harwood) writes:
>I nominated Cyrus Vance, as spokesman for the Earth. He is well-respected
>internationally for his career in government and international diplomacy,
>currently serving the U.N. in Yugoslavia and South Africa. He has been
>a long-time advocate of arms reductions and nuclear test bans.
>
>I also recommend Carl Sagan, among this list of nominees, to assist the
>spokesman as scientific advisor. He is a respected, competent and
>conscientious scientist, very knowledgeable of general science and
>technology of Earth. He has been a long-time advocate of arms control and
>enviromental concerns.
>

I have been reading about how Cyrus Vance is the author of the "Global 2000"
report that spells out how to control the population of the earth by
various mass anihlation techniques, a sort of Illuminati type issue.

So I would not want to vote for him.

I have always had a lot of mixed emotions about Sagen. I have felt that
he is a member of the establishment that would keep the existance of
UFO's out of the public eye. He also  supports SETI, and it is likely that
SETE is just a cover for the various government agreements already made
with ET races, so I don't think I will vote for him either.

On the otherhand, Bill Moyers has been doing a good job lately of
harasing the establishment on public television, has certain
congress persons up in arms over his exposes, and has published several
very openminded books, such as A World of Ideas, that bring forth many
views from such notables as Isaac Asimov, Noam Chomsky, Steven Weinburg,
and a host of others both Liberal Arts, and Science oriented. So I
feel like I know he is on the side of humanity, and is good at represening
it, regardless of his past in the LBJ administration, which probably
served to get him active in helping people understand just what is
happening in government. Programs such as the "Secret Gevernment" and
"What's Wrong with America" are two find examples.

I didn't nominate him, but T. Leary would also make a fine advisor, since
he has always advocated change, and is a very smart guy. He has broad
viewpoints that encompass world religion and science, as well as the
social sciences.
\
Jeff-
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 09:26:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 0

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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 09:49:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 0

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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue
From: [e-mail] (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.brother-jed,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: What happen to Sister Cindy?
Keywords: INVASION! Stollman clones Jed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 92 17:09:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (George
Edmond Eddy) writes:
[...]
>By far his best appearances were those when he met opposition with
>"Rudy" long white haired, mid-thirties, 1970 surfer throw back.
>Rudy was a *very* interesting character, he spoke about 700wpm
>often using 6+ syllable terms, although i don't know that anybody
>actually found his ramblings coherent for more than two senteces.
>He could always be found wearing a white "voice amplification
>viser" which had to be worn in order for him to be audible.
>For those familiar with the Wally George show may very well
>have seen him, as he was a frequent spectator with plenty to
>say.
>
>Rudy was taken to a mental ward by the police a couple times, one
>time crying "Please don't erase my brain", refering to sedatives
>he was about to recieve.

Are you sure his name was Rudy, and not Gary (Stollman)?  And does
anyone else find it more than a coincidence that the possibility of
Brother Jed having clones has come up?

I smell a conspiracy.

    RA

[e-mail]
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!uofs!prijat.cs.uofs.edu!bill
From: [e-mail] (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 92 16:04:09 GMT
References: <![e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Organization: Department of Computing Sciences
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Nntp-Posting-Host: prijat.cs.uofs.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) says:
|> >
|> >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
|> >>>In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
|> >>
|> >>I suppose this means you won't vote for Gorby: fair enough, there's
|> >>room for opposing points of view here.  As you didn't make another
|> >>nomination, I'll add:
|> >>
|> >>Walter Cronkite.
|> >>
|> >
|> >how about someone that is not a CIA spokesperson, and would like to
|> >expose the secret government(s) for what it is?
|> >
|> >Bill Moyers.
|>
|>   How about someone who wasn't a master of propaganda for Lyndon Johnson
|> and can talk about what's really important...
|>
|> Xaviera Hollander

How about someone we can all really trust!!

Richard Nixon.

bill

--

     Bill Gunshannon          |        If this statement wasn't here,
     [e-mail]   |  This space would be left intentionally blank
     [e-mail]    |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc=aav
From: clc=[e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 92 16:15:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: clc=[e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
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In article <[e-mail]> Rick Gordon writes:
> The Email address of the voting booth will be announced in this
> forum in advance of the vote.  Votes timestamped from 00:00 Monday,
> 28 September to 00:00 Wednesday, 30 September 1992 will be counted.
> The winner will be announced Friday, 2 October 1992.

I am happy to offer to the world an electronic voting booth, since
no other people have volunteered for the job. The voting booth has
already been tested for votations in other newsgroups. The email
address will be announced Saturday, 26 September, but votes received
before 00:00 GMT Monday, 28 September will be automatically discarded.

Together with the announcement of the email address I'm going to
post again the complete list of candidates and the relevant speeches,
and, of course, the (simple) instructions to send your vote and have
it automatically counted by a program, rather than relying on me doing
the job by hand.

Send email to clc=[e-mail] if you have comments, or you want
to offer an alternative email voting booth or whatever. Do not send
votes to this address.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 18:22:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Town Crier for The Global Village
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]> Claudio Calvelli writes:

>I am happy to offer to the world an electronic voting booth, since
>no other people have volunteered for the job. The voting booth has
>already been tested for votations in other newsgroups. The email
>address will be announced Saturday, 26 September, but votes received
>before 00:00 GMT Monday, 28 September will be automatically discarded.

I'm sure all of the readership will join me in thanking you for taking
on this task.  I will wait a little while longer before sealing the
nominations, owing to the variations in news propogation.  Several
nominations arrived with a timestamp later than 00:00 GMT 21 September,
and so were not included in the list.

I should mention, by the way, my chagrin and embarassment when I realized
I had mistakenly identified you as "Claudia" in an earlier post.  I hope
you'll agree it's an easy mistake to make, especially when, in this part
of the world, anyway, there are many more "Claudia"s than "Claudio"s.
My comments regarding your possible "husband" are, of course, inoperative.

--
Rick Gordon       | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly
[e-mail]  |  and I did.  I said I didn't know."  M. Twain
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 18:27:20 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Your Best Entertainment Value
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> Bill Gunshannon writes:

>How about someone we can all really trust!!
>
>Richard Nixon.

Sorry, the deadline for nominations has passed (00:00 GMT 21 September).
That's a shame, as I'm sure Mr. Nixon would have made a fine nominee.

>     Bill Gunshannon          |        If this statement wasn't here,

--
Rick Gordon       | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly
[e-mail]  |  and I did.  I said I didn't know."  M. Twain
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley
From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 18:54:18 GMT
Lines: 60


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>In article <pt2ny#[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>>
>> Quite a few nominations for Earth Spokesman have come in, some in
>> Email to me, some posted to this newsgroup.  I would encourage
>> readers to post nominations rather than send them to me, so that
>> the process can be observed by all interested parties.
>>
>(stuff deleted)>
>> And the nominees to date:
>>
>> Mikhail Gorbachev
>> Walter Cronkite
>> Bill Moyers
>> Xaviera Hollander
>> [e-mail]
>> Leader Kibo
>> Cyrus Vance
>> Cicciolina
>> Dr. Timothy Leary
>> Mother Theresa
>> Pierre Salinger
>> Jesus of Nazareth
>> Pele
>> Stephen Hawking
>> Margaret Thatcher
>> Geoff Miller
>> Gene Spafford
>> Mel Gibson
>> Carl Sagan
>> Hilary Clinton
>>
>>              The Dalai Lama
>
>> Clearly, some of these nominations were made with irony, or at least
>> humor, in mind.  I have not dropped any nominations from the list, since
>> the intent of the respondent is often ambiguous.
>>
>> Nominations will remain open until 00:00 GMT Monday, 21 September, 1992.
>>
>> --
>> Rick Gordon       | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly
>> [e-mail]  |  and I did.  I said I didn't know."  M. Twain


I would like to nominate myself... Mary Stanley for this position... and I
would like to point out that.. unlike some of the other nominees.. I am
alive (a useful feature in what is essentially a communications job).

On my behalf, I'd like to say that I would fairly represent all of humanity,
and the life and being of the planet and all it contains.

I have a good solid relationship with all the aliens I've met and feel we
would work well together.  And.. I'm willing to work for food (Earth food
only please... due to allergies and biological restrictions).

Thank you.

Mary Stanley
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley
From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: Alien evolution theory
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 19:04:38 GMT
Lines: 37


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joseph Good) writes...
>
>Here's a quick theory while I'm waiting for a fractal to generate...
>
>On grey, pleadian, or any other alien evolution advancement:
>
>I think a question was brought up on how these creatures could be so
>far advanced than us, when the system they live in is younger than ours?
>
>If a society comes very proficient in genetic engineering, there would
>not be a need for natural selection any more. Evolution would be
>controled in a "as needed" fashion.  Once that stage in technology is
>reached, then who knows what could be done.  Suppose we had complete genetic
>control over our DNA.  We could create a race of "scientists" with IQ's beyond
>anything we can imagine, and their whole purpose was to theorize and formulate
>idea's then put them to use.  Think about it...
>
>So, they may not have been around much longer than us, just developed genetic
>technologies before we did.  Maybe we'll catch up
>
>--
>
>Joseph Good
>+-------------------+ - More than just a band....
>| Green Dot Brigade | - It's a whole damn army of dots...
>+-------------------+ - And we've declared war on the 7-Up dots...
>
>[e-mail] (NeXT mail welcome!!) (main account)
>
>[e-mail]  (Just plain ol' Unix) (seldom used)

But perhaps being smart isn't enough to survive... look what science has
brought to our own systems... nuclear waste and nuclear bombs...  it takes
more than brains to survive complex societies.. it takes wisdom too.  Maybe
they need to catch up. :-)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 35
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:  <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 18:15:56 GMT



In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Paul J. Brewer) writes:

|>With the advent of school and my teaching assistantship duties rapidly
|>approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven
|>planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim
|>the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in
|>Fall of 1992. Well, where is it? Am I actually going to have to TA
|>undergrad econ again or what?

    First of all "GET A LIFE!"

|>(interesting how you don't see any articles about this anymore, isnt it?)


    No it is not because it is pure BS.


|>Paul


    Steve food_for_the_Grays

--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah
From: [e-mail] (David Harwood)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >>> for Cyrus Vance, asst. Carl Sagan <<<
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: VTT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <kr6nb##[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 19:37:33 GMT
Lines: 16

In article <kr6nb##[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:
...
>
>I have been reading about how Cyrus Vance is the author of the "Global 2000"
>report that spells out how to control the population of the earth by
>various mass anihlation techniques, a sort of Illuminati type issue.
>
>So I would not want to vote for him.

\\\\\\\\

Please quote whatever you've read that says that Cyrus Vance advocates
anything like this. If it were so, I wouldn't support him either.

D.H.

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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!glassboro.edu!cass8806
From: [e-mail] (KYLE CASSIDY)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 92 19:54:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ
Lines: 20
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

>Many of you no doubt recall the excitement last June concerning a supposed
>video of a UFO shown on "Hard Copy", taken from a NASA camera on the
>Space Shutle (STS-48). Certain UFOlogists of little critical acumen
>insist that it is a UFO being chased by some "secret weapon," even
>though NASA says, quite correctly, that the objects are just tiny pieces
>of ice being pushed away by an attitude control thruster firing.
etc.

as a former professional astronomer, i've seen countless things that to the
untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like
flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satelites, weather
balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) as long as "hard copy"
keeps katering to people with brains the size of walnuts i fear that these
misrepresentations will continue, unchecked. it is a detriment to all real
scientists and science itself that these things occur and are allowed to
occur.

kc
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 20:38:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - A World of Difference in a Different World
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 38


Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed.  Supporters of
candidates are now encouraged to post persuasive arguments why a
particular candidate will execute the duties of Spokesman better
than anybody else.  The campaign will end at the opening of the
voting booth at 00:00 Monday, 28 September, 1992.  Voting will end
at 00:00 Wednesday, 30 September, 1992.

The candidates are:

Mikhail Gorbachev        Walter Cronkite         Bill Moyers
Xaviera Hollander        [e-mail]    Leader Kibo
Cyrus Vance              Cicciolina              John Major
Dr. Timothy Leary        Mother Theresa          Pierre Salinger
Jesus of Nazareth        Pele                    Stephen Hawking
Margaret Thatcher        Geoff Miller, American  Gene Spafford
Mel Gibson               Carl Sagan              Hilary Clinton
Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno                      Boris Yeltsin
Steven Spielberg and George Lucas                "The Pope"
Gary Stollman            John Winston            The Dalai Lama
Pee-Wee Herman           Robert Redford          Cindy Crawford
Richard Nixon            John Romer              James Burke
William F. Buckley       Barbra Streisand        Princess Diana
Rick Gordon              "Anybody but David Frost"
Dizzy Gillespie          Umberto Eco             Johnny Carson
Nelson Mandela           Anita Hill              Ingmar Bergman
Samuel Ramey             Aretha Franklin         John Updike
Frank Sinatra            Li Po                   Jimmy Carter
"Anyone in Bangladesh, Somalia, or parts of the former Soviet bloc that have
been ruined by pollution"                        Ted Williams
"someone who does something nice"                Geoff Miller, Australian
Robert Sheaffer          Captain Kangaroo        William S. Burroughs
Idi Amin                 Laurie Anderson         Mary Shafer
Harpo Marx

--
Rick Gordon         |  "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail]    |    --- Universal Marketing Department motto
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!bvickers
From: [e-mail] (Brett J. Vickers)
Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again
Nntp-Posting-Host: valentine.ics.uci.edu
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Brett J. Vickers)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Lines: 25
Date: 21 Sep 92 21:07:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (KYLE CASSIDY) writes:
>as a former professional astronomer, i've seen countless things that to the
>untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like
>flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satelites, weather
>balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) as long as "hard copy"
>keeps katering to people with brains the size of walnuts i fear that these
>misrepresentations will continue, unchecked. it is a detriment to all real
>scientists and science itself that these things occur and are allowed to
>occur.

#define SOAPBOX
The problem goes a little deeper than yellow journalism, I think.  In
a country where missiles are valued over diplomas, pork barrels get
filled before school coffers, and televisions supplant teachers,
you are going to find a lot of misinformed folk buying pseudeo-
scientific arguments.  The proliferation of creationism, UFOlogy,
and pop psychology in the USA is a testament to a country whose
members and political leaders have lost sight of rational priorities.
#undef SOAPBOX

--
 ___            _    _     _  _        _
(  _) ___ ___ _( )__( )_  ( )( ) o  __( ) _  ___  ___  ___
(___)(_) (__=) (_)_ (_)_   (__) (_)(_((_)(_'(__=)(_) _(_)
Brett J. Vickers ([e-mail])
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm
From: [e-mail] (Pat Monardo)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>
>Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed.  Supporters of

that's great. now what exactly is Spokesperson for Earth?

--
-- Pat Monardo
-- [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <e0=[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 92 22:03:13 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James Cates III) writes:
>
>Regarding a theory......attitude deleted.......................
>How in the world does a corporeal being survive in that sort of
>freezing waste? Earth is as populated as it is because of its
>ideal distance from a Sun of ideal size .................


Possibly the planet is heated from an internal source which is much
hoter than our own magma core. Maybe it's something yet unknown to us
who are still humble enough to admit we don't know everything.

--
=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>||              Denise faith Solis 1992          ||<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>||             [e-mail]         ||<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!haley
From: [e-mail] (Ross MacGregor)
Subject: 18 Frames of Unsolved Mysteries UFO (2 GIFS)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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This weekend, I fired up my digitizer to do some analysis on that
UNsolved Mysteries home video of lights in the sky.  I was able
to get 18 frames fairly evenly spaced (dont have the best VCR) over
the some 28 seconds of the clip.  I converted each frame to 16 color
grey-scale and created a strip sequence of the light formation.
By doing this I was able to remove the camera motion, and allow more
careful observation.
BTW, if you find yourself taping a UFO, *please* do not play with the
zoom lens (unless you need to get a closeup of the driver ;).

Anyway, I don't know what kind of "experts" viewed this tape (as the
show claims) because it does not appear to be a rigid body.
If it is a rigid body it would have to be argued that it rotates wrt
the camera.  This would really be grasping as the tape shows little
signs of rotation IMO.

So my conclusions are the lights on the home video could be airplanes.
It really provides little proof one way or the other.

Don't believe me?  Well you can see for yourself!  This 18 frame sequence
fits in two small .GIF (or IFF) files (~12K total).
I could upload the files to some public FTP site - if someone could kindly
point me in the right direction, or post it if there is enough interest.

...now where do you think they dug up that UFO photo (circle of (xmas?)
lights), it bore little resemblance to witnesses descriptions or the video.

Don't be fooled Unsolved Mysteries is after ratings.

--
Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered
[e-mail]       |  absolute truth.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg
From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 22:31:45 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> Pat Monardo writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>>
>>Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed.  Supporters of
>
>that's great. now what exactly is Spokesperson for Earth?

A typo.  Let's stay focussed, shall we?

>-- Pat Monardo

--
Rick Gordon         |  "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail]    |    --- Universal Marketing Department motto
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!manson
From: [e-mail] (Bob Manson)
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <e0=[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Denise Solis) writes:
>Possibly the planet is heated from an internal source which is much
>hoter than our own magma core. Maybe it's something yet unknown to us
>who are still humble enough to admit we don't know everything.

I don't know everything, but I do know how incredibly unlikely it is for
life to exist on a totally inadequate planet for the purpose; heck, Mars
would've been a better choice for a planet to move to, and it's not that
great...

One thing's for certain; whatever's living on Pluto didn't evolve
there. There just isn't enough energy for the purpose, or it would've
become apparent that Pluto was a heck of a lot brighter than
everything else out that far...
                        Bob
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Bob Manson)
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Oh, and by the way, in case there's still any doubt, I've been to
Pluto. There's no life there.
                        Bob
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Jung on UFO coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 92 23:42:39 GMT
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Here's a pertinent quote from Carl Jung:

"If...the extraterrestrial origin of the phenomena (i.e. UFOs) should
be confirmed...it would be chiefly our science and our technology which
would have to be consigned to the scrap-heap. What such a catastrophe would
mean on the moral plane we can in some sort judge by the ruin of primitive
cultures of which we are the witnesses. *THAT THE CONSTRUCTION OF THESE
MACHINES PROVES A SCIENTIFIC TECHNOLOGY, AND ONE IMMENSELY SUPERIOR TO OURS,
ADMIST OF NO TWO OPINIONS.*     Just as Pax Britannica put an end to the
disputes between the tribes of Africa, so our world could unroll its Iron
Curtain and use it as scrap iron, with all the millions of tons of guns,
warships and munitions. But we would have been *discovered* and colonised --
sufficient reason for universal panic!
    If we wish to avoid such a catastrophe, the authorities in possession
of important information should not hesitate to enlighten the public as soon
and as completely as possible and should, above all, stop these ridiculous
antics of mysteries and vauge allusions.   (Original emphasis)

Lou
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 17:35:29 PDT
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >>> for Cyrus Vance, asst. Carl Sagan <<<
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 00:54:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Harwood) writes:
>>I have been reading about how Cyrus Vance is the author of the "Global 2000"
>>report that spells out how to control the population of the earth by
>>various mass anihlation techniques, a sort of Illuminati type issue.
>>
>>So I would not want to vote for him.
>
>Please quote whatever you've read that says that Cyrus Vance advocates
>anything like this. If it were so, I wouldn't support him either.
>

I have been reading about Cyrus Vance in the book The Conspirators Hierarchy:
the Committee of 300. Dr. Coleman, the author appears to be an Ex-MI6
officer, and people have written to me about the substance of his book being
accurate. Also, it is entirely possible that he got the information about
Cyrus Vance from another source in the bibliography of his book, so it may
be one of several sources for this information regarding the authorship of
the Global 2000 report.

Jeff-


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 92 03:13:00 GMT
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    [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
    Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed.
    Supporters of candidates are now encouraged to post persuasive
    arguments why a particular candidate will execute the duties
    of Spokesman better than anybody else.

... since I nominated no less than three people, I shall speak on
behalf of each.

John Romer - eminent historian, specializing in Egyptian and Biblical
    history.  He has written a number of books, and has used them
    as a basis for at least three documentary series (seen in the
    US on The Learning Channel and Discovery Channel) --
    "Testament", "Ancient Lives", and "Romer's Egypt".  He has a
    fine understanding of the subtleties of human society and
    beliefs, and is (according to someone I know who was a student
    in one of his courses) a fine teacher -- that is, he can
    communicate his understanding well. (Having read a couple of
    his books, I agree.)

    He would be an excellent choice to explain human societies to
    others (and other societies to humans in terms they can
    understand), and be able to see the larger contexts of
    cultural interaction.


James Burke - Historian and author of at least three books on
    technology and society ("The Day the Universe Changed", "The
    Impact of science on society" (actually a lecture he gave,
    along with Jules Bergman and Isaac Asimov), and
    "Connections"), the last of which was also an excellent
    documentary (seen in the US on The Learning Channel.)
    Most recently he participated in the interesting "After the
    Warming", a speculative 'documentary' about the phenomenon of
    global warming set in the future (seen in the US on various
    public TV stations).  He is well versed in the issues of
    technological change and how it affects human society.
    (To give you an idea, the critical technical invention
    of human history is, according to Burke, the plough.)

    He would be very good at interfacing with another culture
    because he well knows the history of high-to-low technology
    culture interaction, along with a detailed and subtle
    understanding of how technical (and social) progress works,
    and would be able to see how such a future interaction might
    be carried out without catastrophic results.


William F. Buckley - Conservative wild-man, author, ex-editor of
    the "National Review", host and chief spear-carrier of the
    long-running current-issues television show "Firing Line".
    Like him or hate him, you cannot deny that he is a very smart
    guy.   Well versed in various philosophical schemes (most of
    which he pokes fun at), he is able to pull them into the
    real world and argue specifics and generalities well (and
    often at the same time! :-)

    Buckley would be a fine negotiator, since as anyone who has
    seen him in action knows, he cannot be pinned down on
    anything, and never runs out of points (no matter how
    obtuse) to keep on plugging, even if he's losing (actually,
    especially if he's losing.)


Charles
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From: [e-mail] (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies
Keywords: Sneakers
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 09:03:36 EDZ
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[e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:

> Anybody remember the name of that movie? It seems that since that time
> Redford has had a great interest in how the secret government operates
> and what is "really" happening.

Three days of the Condor, I believe. It's based on a book (don't
remember by whom) which is called SIX days of the Condor.



--------
[e-mail] (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Sweet Oblivion ([phone], V.32bis 8N1) Official SRP Headquarters


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Christian Stapelberg)
Subject: Re: Alien evolution theory
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joseph Good) writes:

Excellent theory, Dude!

No, this is not sarcastic. It really is very good.
Only one thing, they could have made themselves look a bit nicer, though...

Regards, Chris.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 05:00:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bob Manson) writes:
>Oh, and by the way, in case there's still any doubt, I've been to
>Pluto. There's no life there.
>                        Bob

Sorry Bob, you missed the obvious. There was indeed life there during your
visit. :^)

Rich

[e-mail]


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!cs.joensuu.fi!jlavi
From: [e-mail] (Jarkko Lavinen)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 08:35:19 GMT
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[e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:


>Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed.  Supporters of
>candidates are now encouraged to post persuasive arguments why a
I think persons like Mother Teresa, The Dalai Lama and perhaps
Jesus fall on the class who might be a good candidate. All of them
are nonselfish people who think more of other peoples good than their
own. Dalai Lama might have best abilities for this purpose,
physically. Mother Teresa's health is not so good these days.
Jesus might be good option if these visitors could travel in time,
especially now that there are so many years in his life that are not
desribed in bible. During these lost years he could be assigned for
this job and returned later on to be crusified. :-). Dalai Lama is
alive so he is right now a better choice than these two.

All those people who think more themself than just good for mankind
would indeed represent people, showing the evil nature of human. I
don't see idea of seeing pope or Idi Amin representing earth...

So I say yes for the Dalai Lama.
>Rick Gordon         |  "Often in error, never in doubt."
    Jarkko Lavinen
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 06:49:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Subject: The Picture.
  Back many years ago there was a flying saucer convention where people
interested in UFOs would come together and listen to people talk on that
subject (the place was called Giant Rock Airport).  Some of them had
contacted the space people and had taken rides aboard the space craft from
other planets.
  It was during one of these  conventions that Tarna Halsey (a physical lady
on earth today who remembers her previous life on Venus) was talking to her
husband and a person who they both knew was from another planet.  Her
husband was Dr. Walllace Halsey.  He was the nephew of the late Bull Halsey,
the Navy Admiral of World War 2 fame.  Wallace was also an engineer and well
educated.
  Tarna wanted to take a picture of her husband and his space friend.  The
space man told her that she shouldn't take a picture of  them at that time
because he wouldn't show up on the picture but just a light would be seen.
Tarna then told him that she had just bought that poloroid camera and she
could get a picture of anything.
  She took the picture and it came out as the S. M. said.  She took another
with the same results. The S. M. then said that he had tried to tell her
that the picture would come out that way because he and Wallace had been
talking about very high frequency and spiritual things and his body was at
such a high freq. that the camera would not pick it up.
  Later on Wallace and the S. M. came back and Tarna was told by the S. M.
that she could now take his picture and it would turn out OK because they
had been talking and thinking about lower freq. physical things.  She took
the picture and it came out normal.
  Years later after Tarna had been trained and taught about many things by the
space people one of her friends came up and wanted to take her picture and
she told her the same things the S. M. had told her before.  Her friend was
excited and thought that would make even a better picture. She took Tarna's
picture and she came out as just a light and the rest of the picture came
out normal.
  Tarna also was told that she would be taught how to appear in more than one
place at once. The last thing that I heard about Tarna is that she was
lecturing at a UFO convention in Arizona.
John Winston.

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 92 13:16:22 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul J. Brewer) writes:

>............ I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven
>planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim
>the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in
>Fall of 1992. Well, where is it? ...............

>Paul

I believe the date was to be in October.


--
=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>||              Denise faith Solis 1992          ||<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>||             [e-mail]         ||<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Gene Spafford)
Subject: Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News)
Organization: Department of Computer Sciences, Purdue University
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 14:19:09 GMT
Lines: 47

I found it a distinct...surprise...to be nominated as spokesman for
Earth.  Unlike other nominees, I am alive (mostly), have never served
in a political office, am not primarily employed in the entertainment
industry, and I remove my clothes in public only occasionally.
However, anyone who has been on the net for over 8 years should recall
me being labelled as the Usenet's first extra-terrestrial, and several
of my postings were to that effect.

Thus, I'm not sure if I'm still qualified for such an exalted
position.   Then again, maybe that gives me an advantage of some
additional perspective.

Hmm, I wonder if the University news service would want to know about
this?  I wonder if I need to get the dean's approval to engage in this
activity?  (They have to approve all my positions as committee chair
and editor for other ogranizations, so this may be similar.)  Note
that my contract with Purdue University states that I can't serve in
any capacity against the state of Indiana (e.g., expert consultant in
a lawsuit).  Thus, if aliens demanded to colonize Muncie in return for
not invading Earth, or wanted to impregnate all the mammals in Fort
Wayne, I would be in a conflict of interest situation.  I think it
only fair to state that up front.  (However, if the aliens wanted to
vaporize Gary or especially Bloomington, that might be arranged.)

If it is necessary for me to travel off-planet, can I get frequent
flier miles?  Can my wife accompany me for half-fare?  Not that these
are requirements, mind you, but they sure can make a difference if I
have to travel a lot.  I mean, my wife would probably have a fit even
if I only went as far as Barnard's Star and then tried to call home
collect.  It would be much easier to just take her along.  However,
she probably wouldn't be up for any kind of party involving live
refreshments or particpants with tentacles, so if that was a required
diplomatic kind of event, I'm not sure what I'd decide to do.  Plus,
I'm not sure she'd be interested in social events at the breeding
pits.  Perhaps you can elect Cindy Crawford as my deputy, and we just
won't tell my wife?  Hmm, that probably isn't a stellar example of
honesty, but then again, you want a Spokesman who can bluff a little
if it's for the good of Earth, eh?

Let's see....as far as qualifications go, I've had most of my shots,
these are my own teeth, I currently live and work on Earth, and I can
definitely speak.  I'm not sure if there are other qualifications, but
I'm sure you'll let me know if more information is needed.

Any idea where I'd list this on my vita?  Would it help me get tenure?


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Jung on UFO coverup
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 15:07:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnum.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
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Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Here's a pertinent quote from Carl Jung:
>
>"If...the extraterrestrial origin of the phenomena (i.e. UFOs) should
>be confirmed...it would be chiefly our science and our technology which
            ...

Can you provide a reference to where this quote came from?

Thanks
--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Portal.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 07:30:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
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Dear Sean: I made a request to the powers that be for them to pull
the plug on the July the 4, but everybody seems to still want it to
keep going. I'm still talking and people are having a good time
trying to shoot me down with flames so I keep on keeping on.
John Winston.
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 07:14:11 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
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  <[e-mail]>
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Please disregard those articles with nothing on them I was experimenting.
John Winston.
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 07:06:51 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 18

Dear Fellow Traveller: In regards to the ESP experiment with Big Al
I was off in some cases and on in others. Al says that he did go to
sleep but I tried to pick up some information anyway. In cases where
I told him that I was guessing I was wrong, like his name is Big Al so
he was either big or small, I told him that I guessed that he weighed
247 or more. I was wrong by over 100 lbs. (I don't remember exactly
how many he said). Al tells me he is more than normal height. I told
Al that he cussed a lot and was a very sensitive person. That turned
out to be correct. I did send out a message and two pictures to Al
and some of you may have picked up them also. The message was the
saying they use to check out a typewriter- The quick brown fox jumped
over the lazy dog. The first picture was for the men and it was a
a picture of Madonna the singer with her pointed bra on. The second
was for the women. It was Arnold Schwarzenegger the movie star on the
beach bending down on one knee with his elbow on his other knee and he
he is flexing is bicep muscle in his arm. Big Al wants to continue the
experiment.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 07:41:30 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Mark: There is a book that has the words The 12 Planet in its
title that has a lot to say about the subject you are talking about. It
also talks about Wormwood which is mentioned in the bible.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO talk shows?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 92 15:16:06 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 5


Does anyone know of any UFO talk shows that might be available via
a Satellite TV receiver?

                                    Ken
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Sender: [e-mail] (News manager - ulowell)
Organization: University of Lowell
References: <![e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 16:40:33 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> Julie Kangas writes:
>
>>In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>
>>>Mikhail Gorbachev.
>>
>>*Blech*
>>
>>I'm sure the Lithuanians would really like him to be their spokesman.
>
> I suppose this means you won't vote for Gorby: fair enough, there's
> room for opposing points of view here.  As you didn't make another
> nomination, I'll add:
>
> Walter Cronkite.
>
>>Julie>
> Rick Gordon
Double *Blech*
I nominate Richard M. Nixon, our greatest president ever.
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: FILE: Roswell - Twining/Schulgen Letter
Message-ID: <ss7nh=[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 16:59:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:
>Re: Roswell/Twining-Schulgen Letter
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>[What follows is the letter from Lt. Gen. Nathan Twining, commanding the
>Air Materiel Command, to Brig. Gen. George Schulgen, chief of Air Force
>Intelligence.  The format below matches the original document.  This is
>from: _The Roswell Report: A Historical Perspective_, George M. Eberhart


   Yes. Please note that this a a letter FROM Lt. Gen. Twining, the
   commander of the Wright-Patterson AFB (where the "crashed saucer"
   was supposedly taken in July, 1947) TO his commanding officer
   in Washington, DC.


>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>SUBJECT:  AMC Opinion Concerning "Flying Discs"          23 September 1947
>
>TO:       Commanding General
>          Army Air Forces
>          Washington 25, D. C.
>          ATTENTION:     Brig. General George Schulgen
>                         AC/AS-2
>
>        h.  Due consideration must be given the following: -
>
>            (2)  The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash
>                 recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the
>                 existence of these objects.
>

Now, those who believe in the supposed "saucer crash at Roswell" must
accept one of two possible explanations for this strange statement:

1.    The Conspirators brought in huge amounts of saucer crash debris
      to Wright-Patterson AFB, but said "let's not tell the base
      commander about this. He doesn't have a high enough security
      clearance to know!"  (In which case, Lt. Gen Twining might
      someday ask, "What are all those people doing over in Hanger 18?
      I didn't authorize that!"), or

2.    Lt. Gen. Twining is lying to his commanding officer, perhaps
      because Gen. Schulgen doesn't have a high enough security
      clearance. ("I know all about this Roswell crash, but I'm
      going to lie to you about it, SIR!) Military officers typically
      disapprove strongly when they learn that those who report to them have
      been lying to them. Such moves tend to be career limiting, and
      are generally not considered wise.

More likely, The Conspirators forged this letter, to throw us off the
track.

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: Kyle
Keywords: Nasa UFO video
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 16:15:56 GMT
Lines: 28



     Kyle writes:


    >As a former professional astronomer, I've seen countless things that to the
    >untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like
    >flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satellites, weather
    >balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) ..

Ah, the telling words here are "to the untrained eye could be considered .."

I think it's unfair to assume that people's brains are "the size of walnuts" just because theirs is an
untrained eye. I agree that most sightings are easily explainable (yes, most), but someone who has
*not* experienced the wealth of data available, who sees something weird in the sky and then assumes
it is indeed an alien craft, does not necessarily fall into the category of moron.

By the way, this "object" seems to be the one I have on a commercial video, and I personally am
convinced that it's aircraft in formation. I later read a report that some young people from a flying
club had been taken to court for flying in formation at night in order to frighten people on the ground.
The "eye-witnesses" interviewed on the video would fall into the "first impression" and "untrained
eye" category, as far as I could tell.

                Heaven knows what I used to believe!      Paul.

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 16:19:05 GMT
Lines: 12



While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case, I came across one from
London in 1837 - about a chap who had "the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued
by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him "Spring Heel Jack".  Is there anyone in
GB who knows any more about him?

            Cheers,     Paul.

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland
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From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 92 16:41:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 9

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
> Please disregard those articles with nothing on them I was experimenting.
> John Winston.

Dear John: Thanks for telling us. I assumed that they were subliminal
messages but I could not quite get them.

I leave you with this message: Do not believe in what you read here.
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From: [e-mail] (Brian Kidby)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: 18 Frames of Unsolved Mysteries UFO (2 GIFS)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 92 18:15:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro  OR
Lines: 23

[e-mail] (Ross MacGregor) writes:

(Stuff Deleted)

>I could upload the files to some public FTP site - if someone could kindly
>point me in the right direction, or post it if there is enough interest.

(More Stuff Deleted)

>Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered
>[e-mail]       |  absolute truth.

There is an archive of "UFO" and space-related pictures (various formats)
on ftp site phoenix.oulu.fi, in the sub-dir "/pub/ufo_and_space_pics".

I would personally be interested in obtaining copies of your .GIFs.
Please, either e-mail them to me, or post them to the above site.
Please .... Please .... PLEASE! :>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid                      My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
[e-mail]    Do not hold my employers responsible.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11864 alt.alien.visitors:9587
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 12:28:53 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 35

Subject: Portal. Part 3.
  Our military had the area well closed off but the bush polots did go into
the general area where the hole was and did see the UFOs coming in and out.
  The holes that are at each one of the pole are supposed to be about 1500
miles across and the lip of the sides going into the center of the earth is
very gradual. The gravity makes it hardly noticable when you go over the
sides.
  Most of the flying saucer going into the Inner Earth are of the good type
but a small percentage of them are bad.
  You may be aware of what is called cattle mutilation cases where UFOss are
seen leaving the area.  In New Mexico about 7 or more years back there was a
nice pony (horse) by the name of Snippy.  This horse was killed and parts of
its body were cut up by very sharp instruments very much as if a surgeon had
done the cutting.  Paarts of its brain matter and bone marrow were removed.
UFOs were seen around the area about the time this happened.  In a report
that was from the space people who watch the earth and keep it safe the good
space people said that this was done by some very low vibration spaced
people that have a remote base and come from the center of this earth.  The
guardian space people said that due to all of the bad thoughts that we earth
people are putting out at the present time, it causes these type people to
be able to come into our atmosphere. They say we should try to raise the
frequnecy of our thoughts by thiking about love and peace rather than lust,
hate and war.
  Our scientist have found that many planets have a hole on both ends with a
centeral sun and when these planets rotate just right the centeral sun
shines out and make  the planet light up. Some people say that they can see
this opening from the pictures printed in Look or Life magazines showing the
earth from our moon rockets.
  I once read a story in some informtion that was from the Boderline Research
Association that I don't know and the people who printed it didn't know
whether it was true or not but never let it be said that I ever failed to
tell a story just because it was not true. Let's just say that this story
has a grain of truth to it and is food for thought.
  End  Part 3.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Jean-Marc Vezien)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 92 19:15:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: GRASP Lab
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> Bill Gunshannon writes:
>
> >How about someone we can all really trust!!
> >
> >Richard Nixon.
>
> Sorry, the deadline for nominations has passed (00:00 GMT 21 September).
> That's a shame, as I'm sure Mr. Nixon would have made a fine nominee.
>


If you pinheads read the list of nominees, you would see someone
has already proposed Nixon. Me.


JM.
I'll probably vote for Kibo or Laurie Anderson. they both have
very convincing words to convince an audience (although in a different
register).

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 13:35:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 34

Subject: Ruins Of The 30,000 Year Old City. Part 11.
  Now you might not believe that pterodactyls are alive and well today and I'm
not for sure that it is true but something did happen last year that made me
think a little bit.  A commuter plane nearly crashed after the pilots looked
out the window and saw a flying dinosaur coming right at the aircraft.
  Seven of the 24 passengers on the short flight between Manaus and Urucara,
Brazil were slightly injured when the plane descended to get out of the way
of the winged beast.
  "It was the most frightening thing I ever saw in my life," says stewardess
Maya Caybon, 24, who was preparing the passengers for landing when the
pterodactyl suddenly flew beside the aircraft and peered in the window.
  It was only about 6 feet away. The plane's pilot Arturo Domiano and Oscar
Maldonado, radioed an SOS to the air trafic controllers.
  Dr. George Biles-one of two Americans on board-has provided a detailed
account of the terrifying episode.
  He was able to get several snapshots of the massive creature as it flew
beside the airplane.
  Biles, a 46-year old anathropologist, says there's no doubt whatsoever that
the plane was "buzzed" by a pterodactyl - a flying reptile thought to be
extinct at the time the dinosaurs disappeared from the earth.
  "I've seen many sketches of pterodactyls, so I know exactly what they look
like," says Biles. "This is a classic  case of a white pterodactyl with a
giant wing span. "Of course I've heard the rumors for many years that these
prehistoric creatures still roamed the Amazon. But I was skeptical like
everyone else.
  "You know, we scientists don't believe anything until we see concrete
evidence. Until that point, It;'s only a theory.
  "Well, I've got the proof. It's on the pictures.
  "That certainly wasn't an airplane or a UFO flying beside us. It was a
pterodactyl."
  So this is me, (John) talking now. I hope he comes up with some good
pictures and shows them to the world.
End Part 11. John Winston.

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From: [e-mail] (Pat Monardo)
Subject: New Cereal!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: hmmm good
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 20:56:24 GMT
Lines: 6

New cereal recently introduced by Post: Circle K.
It is made entirely from wheat harvested from the
crop circles in the UK.
--
-- Pat Monardo
-- [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Date: 22 Sep 1992 21:28:49 GMT
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <z!1nw9=[e-mail]> <s#1n#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 20 Sep 92 08:41:50 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:

   Although I do hate to beat a dead horse, it does seem that
   we need to set the record straight here with the pertinent
   facts such that people will not feel inclinded to subscribe to
   any proffered party line...

   Contrary to what people have written about reading

And read about writing, too!

                              in the Fortean
   Times and in Roberts latest post about Alternative 3, there are many
   issues surrounding the original broadcast in the UK Commonweath, and the
   subsequent book that are simply not addressed by cries of
   "hoax' and "april fools, ect."

Hey!  Stop spitting!

   This initial airing on UK television was quit a stir for the
   folks over there. The show that originally broadcast and produced
   it was called the Science Report, a documentary non-fictional
   program, up until the time that the Alternative 3 program had been
   aired. So the folks tuning in were expecting non-fiction. Part of
   the mystery here all along was, "What had prompted the producers to
   deviate from the regular menu of documentary programing?

   It seemed very out of charactor, and must have been prompted by
   some interesting ideas they wished to promote.

   [...Rest of article deleted...]

Well, you've convinced me.  There is no tradition of the BBC doing
outrageous April Fools hoaxes with a straight face.  So this must be
true.  I only have one question: when IS the Italian spaghetti
harvest?  I want to attend the post-harvest feast at least once before
I force my way onto the escape ships...

-30-
Bob

``Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.''
    -- J. R. `Bob' Dobbs
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From: [e-mail] (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 21:13:15 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
>
>While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case,
>I came across one from London in 1837 - about a chap who had
>"the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued
>by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him
>"Spring Heel Jack".  Is there anyone in GB who knows any more about him?
>

    Glad to oblige.  Any Tim Powers fan knows exactly who
    Spring Heel Jack is, as he figures prominently in
    the wonderful _The Anubis Gates_.  Which is probably
    as deep as you need to go on the subject.

>
>Paul Milsom

Roger Squires
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <r17n50#[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 21:24:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Your Only Choice
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> Jean-Marc Vezien writes:

>If you pinheads read the list of nominees, you would see someone
>has already proposed Nixon. Me.

Quite so.  We are waiting for Mr. Nixon's post in support of his candidacy.
Perhaps you could use your influence to convince him it's the right thing
to do.

>JM.
>I'll probably vote for Kibo or Laurie Anderson. they both have
>very convincing words to convince an audience (although in a different
>register).

Yes, Kibo's is 32 bits wide, Laurie's is occasionally basso profundo.

--
Rick Gordon         |  "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail]    |    --- Universal Marketing Department motto
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From: [e-mail] (Paraaaaaaaaade of Shoooooooooes)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Spokesperson for the Earth - My Proposal
Date: 22 Sep 92 17:44:00
Organization: DeityCo: Major and Minor Deities Placement Agency
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: obsidian.wpi.edu


Hello, I am known (on this list anyway) as [e-mail].  That's
my current E-mail address.  However, I feel before I really get started
that I should properly introduce myself.  Here goes.

The name is Derek Greggory Bacon, son of Stephen and Lorraine Claire Blue
Bacon.  That should place me squarely enough in family tree searches that
if you really care about that sort of thing, you can find out.  Alternately,
I am known as lightnin, Letterman!, Gadaiyio Takeimienei, and 'weirder than
Gub'.  I'm not sure what all of the different names mean either, but that's
beside the point.  You can call me Derek or lightnin, it's what I answer to
most often.

As for my views of Spokesperson for the Earth.  I don't feel that this is
a one person job.  Originally, I felt that all of the nominees should form
a council and that way present as complete and unified a viewpoint to any
potential aliens we might enounter.  However, I think the list of nominees
is way to long for all of them to be members now.  Perhaps a council size of
11 or so, would be a good way to go.  You could have different people on the
council to represent different areas of human life.  If possible, they should
not all be liberal, or all conservative, or all american, or all far eastern,
they should represent a cross-section of human society.  This is how I feel.

However, I've expressed this opinion before, and it didn't get me very far.
The people on this group seem to want to elect one person.  Let me get to
my qualifications for this.

My most important qualification is the fact that I can type this article
for myself.  By this I mean, that I have access to Usenet and the Internet.
This gives me an advantage over many of the other candidates, I believe,
because I have access to the largest and most diverse source of opinions
ever developed by mankind.  Not only that, but I will listen to the concerns
of the people here.  I will be available to everyone.  This provides the
shortest, most direct route possible for everyone on the planet to
communicate with the aliens, short of everyone actually walking up and saying
'Hi!' which seems impractical.  This sort of supports my concept of a
Spokescouncil for the Earth as well.  In essence, everyone on this system
will be a member of the council, lurkers as well, and we'll all be speaking
with the aliens.

Now on to more realistic qualifications.  I'm a student, I have no wife or
family to tie me down.  Should this position include travelling with the
aliens to some kind of neutral setting (say just this side of the moon)
where they won't have 100 nuclear missiles aimed at their heads, I can do
it.  No wife or girlfriend to nag me into staying home.

Should this diplomatic position involve parties at which unusual things are
eaten or worn, I won't be offended.  I understand that we aren't all human,
that we don't all have the same tastes, or even the same nutritional
requirements.

I'm not bound by any contracts to remain impartial or to side with one side
in a dispute over another.  I got citizenship the easy way, I was born into
it, and I didn't have to take that oath.  So, there can be no conflict of
interest for me.

Let me just close by saying that when you vote for me for this position, you
vote for yourselves.  Sure, potentially we could give William F. Buckley, or
Cindy Crawford, or even Jesus of Nazareth an Internet account and a Usenet
connection, but what are the odds that they'll listen.  I will, I've been
reading this and other groups for over four years now.  I do listen.  I will
listen.  Thank you.

-lightnin
 (Derek Greggory Bacon)

Xref: icaen talk.bizarre:75168 alt.alien.visitors:9595
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken!taurus!rpwhite
From: [e-mail] (rpwhite)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: New Cereal!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 92 22:55:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (rpwhite)
Followup-To: talk.bizarre,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.religion.ms-windows
Organization: Monterey Bay Yacht Club, Monterey CA
Lines: 13

[e-mail] (Pat Monardo) writes:

>New cereal recently introduced by Post: Circle K.
>It is made entirely from wheat harvested from the
>crop circles in the UK.

HA!
This is a joke, right?
What do you think we are?  Idiots?
We all know that the circle with a K in it on a food product means that the
product in question was taste-tested by Kibo at the factory. I'm sure
that if Post were to use this as a name that Bill "Kibo" Gates would
sue immediately.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm
From: [e-mail] (Pat Monardo)
Subject: Re: Spokesperson for the Earth - My Proposal
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 23:34:25 GMT
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paraaaaaaaaade of Shoooooooooes) writes:
>
>
>My most important qualification is the fact that I can type this article
>for myself.  By this I mean, that I have access to Usenet and the Internet.

wow, impressive. that means you're as capable of emacs'
yow-mode. i should have nominated emacs yow-mode with
TCP streams.

--
-- Pat Monardo
-- [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!klinzhai.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Jung on UFO coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 00:50:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 32

>>
>>"If...the extraterrestrial origin of the phenomena (i.e. UFOs) should
>>be confirmed...it would be chiefly our science and our technology which
            ...

>Can you provide a reference to where this quote came from?

   Its been a long time since I read it, but its almost certainly from
Jung's UFO book:

AUTHOR Jung, Carl Gustav, 1875-
TITLE Flying saucers; a modern myth of things seen in the skies. Translated
          from the German by R.F.C. Hull.
PUBLISHER London, Routledge & Paul [1959]
DESCRIP 184 p. illus. 19 cm.
NOTES Translation of Ein moderner Mythus.
SUBJECTS Flying saucers.
RLIN ID G59003449B

from the German:

AUTHOR Jung, Carl Gustav, 1875-
TITLE Ein moderner Mythus;
PUBLISHER Zurich, Rascher-Verlag, 1958.
DESCRIP 122 p. illus. 23 cm.
SUBJECTS Flying saucers.
LC CARD  58028384
RLIN ID G014728614-B

... i.e. the book is from 1958 (Jung died in 1961.)

Charles
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11866 alt.alien.visitors:9598 sci.skeptic:31352
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg
From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 92 16:24:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:

> over the lazy dog. The first picture was for the men and it was a
> a picture of Madonna the singer with her pointed bra on. The second
> was for the women. It was Arnold Schwarzenegger the movie star on the
> beach bending down on one knee with his elbow on his other knee and he
> he is flexing is bicep muscle in his arm. Big Al wants to continue the
> experiment.
> John Winston.

No gays on the psychic train then?

--

Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!geac!r-node!marc
From: [e-mail] (Marc Fournier - Sys Admin)
Subject: Re: Alien evolution theory
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX Information System (416-249-5366)
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 23:42:54 GMT
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>
>But perhaps being smart isn't enough to survive... look what science has
>brought to our own systems... nuclear waste and nuclear bombs...  it takes
>more than brains to survive complex societies.. it takes wisdom too.  Maybe
>they need to catch up. :-)
>

Perhaps...but if you follow the theory presented, then chances are these
'aliens' either totally avoided nuclear fusion for fission (or am
I backwards?)  or have already gone through that period?

Marc

--
Marc G. Fournier      | R-node Public Access Unix running UnixBBS 1.03
Etobicoke, Ontario    | 416-249-5366   24hrs 7 days/week   network email
voice: 249-4230       | shell accounts available  1800+ newsgroups  FREE
[e-mail] | Telebit WorldBlazer/SupraModem2400/Cardinal 2400
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uunet!munnari.oz.au!titan!hal!jbm
From: [e-mail] (Jacques Guy)
Subject: Vote for LA CICCIOLINAAAAAAA!!!!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System PRIVILEGED Account)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 04:58:59 GMT
Lines: 34




     Fellow netters, Earthlings,

La Cicciolina, born porn artist, member of the Italian
parliament, is our the perfect Spokesman er... Spokeswoman
for this planet.

As Pat Monardo wisely said on Sunday, 20 September at about 16:18:19
GMT, if alien leaders refuse to suck tongue with her, we blast them.

Thanks to La Cicciolina we will be able to tell our Outer Space Friends
from our Enemies! No more shilly-shallying about whether the baddies
are Greys, Zeta Reticulians, Denebian jellyfish, or Algol users,
with La Cicciolina, we'll be able to separate the men from the boys,
and without a crowbar either.

La Cicciolina has declared herself for Universal Love and she has
demonstrated her dedication to this noble ideal time and again,
publicly, not only with her whole soul, not only with her whole
body, but also with every hole of her whole body.

Her political career gives her experience which other contenders who
may also qualify on love (Mother Teresa),  holes (Xaviera Hollander) or
tongue-suckability (Cindy Crawford), sorely lack.

At any rate, as an alien leader incognito here, I give it to you
loud and clear: if you send me anyone but La Cicciolina to suck
tongue with (that's our customary greeting), it's curtains for your
miserable slime ball.


              LA CICCIOLINA SAVIOUR OF THE EARTH!
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9601 alt.politics.kibo:141 alt.religion.kibology:3894
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 05:36:38 GMT
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes:
>I'll probably vote for Kibo or Laurie Anderson. they both have
>very convincing words to convince an audience (although in a different
>register).

Incidentally, my Optimum Pitch, as determined by my voice instructor, is
low B.  (It's hard to tell, though, with my nasality.)

On those days where I magically control my velum to be non-nasal, I
sound like Adam West, so I prefer my natural nasality.  Ten million
repetitions of "Nancy, hand the man the dandy candy" didn't eliminate
it, and I'm happy.

I prefer sounding like Mr. Rogers to Adam West any day.
                                -- K.

Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:3895 alt.alien.visitors:9602 alt.politics.kibo:142
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: New Cereal!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 05:40:09 GMT
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (rpwhite) writes:
>[e-mail] (Pat Monardo) writes:
>
>>New cereal recently introduced by Post: Circle K.
>>It is made entirely from wheat harvested from the
>>crop circles in the UK.
>
>HA!
>This is a joke, right?
>What do you think we are?  Idiots?
>We all know that the circle with a K in it on a food product means that the
>product in question was taste-tested by Kibo at the factory. I'm sure
>that if Post were to use this as a name that Bill "Kibo" Gates would
>sue immediately.

You're confusing Bill Gates with Ray "Kibo" Kroc, who is still alive and
secretly living in Kukamonga.

He's going to sue the KKK for trademark infringement to the tune of six
kibillion dollars, and when they can't pay, he'll take over and
transform the KKK into an organization devoted to racial harmony and the
elimination of bad kerning.
                            -- K.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!sparccvo!news
From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Re: ARE YOU KIDDING?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 10:06:45 GMT
Lines: 38



Hello everyone,

"Am I to take this "Spokesman Earth" seriously or not?" I asked.
Unfortunately my ego got the better of me. (ACIM students nod in sympathy)
So here goes:

If you really think about it, can any politician be impartial?

Is there anybody out there in the world who would honestly represent us
without any bias?

Don't forget, he'd be speaking for the bombed in Kurdidstan, the flooded out
in Bangladesh, the deprived, the subjugated, the raped, the beaten, the
politically outwitted, the disillusioned ...

Is there anybody who could represent these people (as well as us) without
having some interests of their own?

Only two.

One of them is difficult to get hold of, and probably wouldn't want to do the
job, as it's our soul (spirit) he wants to save, not the material bit.

The other one is someone I saw last year in Liechtenstein. He was speaking
about World Peace, and his message was a shock. - How can YOU people think of
*world* peace when YOU have hatred in YOUR hearts? It starts with YOU. He was
not at all bitter about the relocation/resettlement campaign going on in his
country, the murder and subjugation. He said the only way to world peace is
when we all start thinking about peace and love, not justice.
This guy gets my vote: The Dalai Lama.
                                                    Paul.


Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!eagor
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: [e-mail] (Darren Bird)
Subject: Aliens
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 10:35:17 +0000
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 9

Hi there

Just a test message for me.  I am in England

  Has anyone seen Alien 3

  Is it any good

    Darren
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!amigans!ed
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Beelzebub
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Edward Kitto)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 23:30:41 GMT+1
Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand
Lines: 27

Have any readers done some serious research on this subject? There seems
to be an over emphasis here on phenomena as opposed to causality. After
all, there have been luminaries historically. I refer to G J Gurdjeff and
Peter Ouspensky et al.
Is anyone sharp enough out there to source the following quote?
"In the 1920s, Gurdjeff decided to write down his ideas in the form of a
vast book called "All and everything, Beelezebub's Tales to His
Grandson". He decided to apply his principle of 'work' to the book, and
deliberately wrote it in an incredibly long-winded and complicated style,
to force his readers to make an enormous mental effort to grasp his
meaning. Beelzebub, flying around the earth in a space ship, tells his
grandson about the 'three brained beings' on the planet earth, and their
peculiar tendency to treat fantasy as reality. This is because a
commission of archangels got worried about man's developing powers and
planted in him an organ called Kundabuffer, whose purpose is to keep him
from achieving 'objective consciousness'.
It all sounds disturbingly familiar, doesn't it? Old,too. Maybe John is
right after all? :-)
Seriously though folks, has anyone made a serious attempt to collate and
correlate all the information available into a coherent synopsis as to
what the hell is really going on with respect to aliens, abductions and
psi phenomena in general. It is my belief that the latent psi
capabilities of the human mind hold the key to the mystery.
Skeptics don't bother - either you know or you don't. There is no in
between.

[e-mail] (Edward Kitto)
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9606 alt.conspiracy:18477
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!brunix!brunix!dzk
From: [e-mail] (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Sneakers
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 13:01:57 GMT
Lines: 15

[e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:
#Did anyone see the movie
#he was in, where he works for the CIA and he reads books? Someone highup
#in the Agency decides that everyone in his office needs to die, and he
#just happens to be out getting lunch, comes back and they're all dead.
#
#Anybody remember the name of that movie? It seems that since that time
#Redford has had a great interest in how the secret government operates
#and what is "really" happening.

"Three Days of the Condor" co-starring Fay Dunway and Max Von-Sidov.
Good movie.

-Danny Keren.

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11868 alt.alien.visitors:9607 sci.skeptic:31361
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 06:19:37 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]
 l.com> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear People: All people are welcome on the Astral Team no matter what
they are. Many people are joining through E-mail. I figure I must
have an army of spiritual and space people  helping me now so come
one come all you'll get someone to help you. They are very busy but
this is importanat to them, so jump on the Astral Band Wagon.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11869 alt.alien.visitors:9608 sci.skeptic:31362
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 06:23:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Train Riders: The 11 weekly train will blast off tonight at 1100psm.
so get your astral bags packed.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11870 alt.alien.visitors:9609
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 06:29:04 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to
think, at least I hope so.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!kksys.com!edgar!brainiac!lmt![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Alex Alexander)
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: alexa.lmt.com
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 19:38:36 GMT
Lines: 38

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Eric Ant Von Laudermann) writes:
>
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul J. Brewer) writes:
> >With the advent of school and my teaching assistantship duties rapidly
> >approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven
> >planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim
> >the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in
> >Fall of 1992. Well, where is it?
>
> It's coming October 28, and will be disguising itself as Jesus Christ
> in order to trick people into thinking that that the Rapture is here.
> Haven't you been keeping up on this newsgroup?  :-) :-) :-)
>

No, no, no. Haven't you guys been paying attention? Jeez!

The planetoid is not filled with Greys, it is filled with Reptoids. The Greys
are the slaves of the Reptoids. They came first to prepare the planet for
invasion by the Reptoids. (The Greys are from Zeta Riticuli and the Reptoids
are from the constellation Draco.) The Greys have been enslaved by the
Reptoids for millions of years and do their bidding (like prepare planets
for them to take over, I guess). The planetoid (about the size of Pennsylvania)
full of millions and millions of frozen (as in cryogenics) Reptoids is heading
this way. Meanwhile, the humans in the know are building full-scale Star Wars
weaponry, getting ready to blow the thing out of existence when it shows its
ugly self. Hubble is looking for it now. It is expected to make its appearance
in 1994 or so. The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens. This will be a
farm planet for them. No real resources that they need. Just another outpost
in this corner of the galaxy. Kinda like F-Troop on a grander scale.

I have no idea where this Fall of 1992 stuff came from. Sounds like Jehova's
Witness's have been tinkering with reality again.

I tell you, these damned eschatologists will screw you up every time... ;-)

-- Alex --


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!cbfsb!att-out!pacbell.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley
From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: Beelzebub
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 16:05:53 GMT
Lines: 32


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Edward Kitto) writes...
>Have any readers done some serious research on this subject? There seems
>to be an over emphasis here on phenomena as opposed to causality. After
>all, there have been luminaries historically. I refer to G J Gurdjeff and
>Peter Ouspensky et al.
>Is anyone sharp enough out there to source the following quote?
>"In the 1920s, Gurdjeff decided to write down his ideas in the form of a
>vast book called "All and everything, Beelezebub's Tales to His
>Grandson". He decided to apply his principle of 'work' to the book, and
>deliberately wrote it in an incredibly long-winded and complicated style,
>to force his readers to make an enormous mental effort to grasp his
>meaning. Beelzebub, flying around the earth in a space ship, tells his
>grandson about the 'three brained beings' on the planet earth, and their
>peculiar tendency to treat fantasy as reality. This is because a
>commission of archangels got worried about man's developing powers and
>planted in him an organ called Kundabuffer, whose purpose is to keep him
>from achieving 'objective consciousness'.
>It all sounds disturbingly familiar, doesn't it? Old,too. Maybe John is
>right after all? :-)
>Seriously though folks, has anyone made a serious attempt to collate and
>correlate all the information available into a coherent synopsis as to
>what the hell is really going on with respect to aliens, abductions and
>psi phenomena in general. It is my belief that the latent psi
>capabilities of the human mind hold the key to the mystery.
>Skeptics don't bother - either you know or you don't. There is no in
>between.
>
>[e-mail] (Edward Kitto)

"Truth! Truth! Truth! crieth the Lord of the Abyss of Hallucinations" :-)

Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9612 talk.bizarre:75277
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!jtb117
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 11:50:36 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_*
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

TRULY A CLASSIC.  A must read says Siscal & Ebert.


justin B.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!ukma!rutgers!cmcl2!sbcs.sunysb.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 15:46:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet poster)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 5
Nntp-Posting-Host: campay.dcs.ed.ac.uk

In article <[e-mail]> Alex Alexander writes:
>
> The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens.

              "Kentuky Fried Humans"
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11871 alt.alien.visitors:9614
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!rjp1
From: [e-mail] (be here now)
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 16:49:01 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 14

)In article [e-mail] writes:
)Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to
)think, at least I hope so.
)John Winston.

Interstellar traveller has insider negligee kidneybeans,
trust hidden energy rather extreme for other reasons exude
instead another mouse, if this helps incubate nubile kismet?


--
Bob Pietkivitch     | "Moon, my long lost friend, is smiling from above."
[e-mail]  |  -- Genesis, Stagnation 1970

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 16:48:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News admin)
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear People: All people are welcome on the Astral Team no matter what
> they are. Many people are joining through E-mail. I figure I must
> have an army of spiritual and space people  helping me now so come
> one come all you'll get someone to help you. They are very busy but
> this is importanat to them, so jump on the Astral Band Wagon.
> John Winston.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\
\    Please add John Hill on the list to Astral Band Wagon. His departure
\     time is 12:00 EDT tonight, from No. 12 Star Port.
\
\    This is a message from Sanhm Albara, Mar. Good luck.
\
\    J.H.
\
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (DON KAUFFMAN)
Subject: Viva La Cicciolina!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 38
Sender: [e-mail] (UNT USENet Adminstrator)
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 17:30:23 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jacques Guy) writes:
>
>     Fellow netters, Earthlings,
>
>La Cicciolina, born porn artist, member of the Italian
>parliament, is our the perfect Spokesman er... Spokeswoman
>for this planet.
>
>As Pat Monardo wisely said on Sunday, 20 September at about 16:18:19
>GMT, if alien leaders refuse to suck tongue with her, we blast them.
>
>Thanks to La Cicciolina we will be able to tell our Outer Space Friends
>from our Enemies! No more shilly-shallying about whether the baddies
>are Greys, Zeta Reticulians, Denebian jellyfish, or Algol users,
>with La Cicciolina, we'll be able to separate the men from the boys,
>and without a crowbar either.
>
>La Cicciolina has declared herself for Universal Love and she has
>demonstrated her dedication to this noble ideal time and again,
>publicly, not only with her whole soul, not only with her whole
>body, but also with every hole of her whole body.
>
>Her political career gives her experience which other contenders who
>may also qualify on love (Mother Teresa),  holes (Xaviera Hollander) or
>tongue-suckability (Cindy Crawford), sorely lack.
>
>At any rate, as an alien leader incognito here, I give it to you
>loud and clear: if you send me anyone but La Cicciolina to suck
>tongue with (that's our customary greeting), it's curtains for your
>miserable slime ball.
>
>
>              LA CICCIOLINA SAVIOUR OF THE EARTH!


    Is it too late to vote?  If not, I vote Cicciolina! If it's
    not too late, I motion to end nominations, forget about voting,
    and appoint Cicciolina as our spokesperson effective immediately.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9617 alt.conspiracy:18479 sci.skeptic:31382
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!klinzhai.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: FILE: Roswell - Twining/Schulgen Letter
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 18:33:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <ss7nh=[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 28


    [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
    2.  Lt. Gen. Twining is lying to his commanding officer,
    perhaps because Gen. Schulgen doesn't have a high enough
    security clearance. ...Military officers typically
        disapprove strongly when they learn that those who report to
    them have been lying to them. Such moves tend to be career
    limiting, and are generally not considered wise.

... but it does happen.  (Groves obfuscated his face off to superiors
during the Manhattan Project, for instance.)  You will note that
Twining's letter was in response to a request for information from
Schulgen (AMC was involved in a number of advanced projects at the
time, for instance the "flying wing").  I thought the comment that
"these objects are...  the project of some high security project not
known to AC/AS-2 or this command" was particularly telling (which can
be taken "your people don't know, and you shouldn't ask me" -- which
could be because Twining didn't know anything (though he gives
impressive detail to suggest his people are up the phenomenon, for
1947), or because Twining wouldn't commit anything so sensitive to
regular communications.)

       More likely, The Conspirators forged this letter, to throw
    us off the track.

... I don't agree; though I would agree it is ambiguous.

Charles
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From: [e-mail] (Marc Fournier - Sys Admin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 15:56:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <e0=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX Information System (416-249-5366)
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bob Manson) writes:
>I don't know everything, but I do know how incredibly unlikely it is for
>life to exist on a totally inadequate planet for the purpose; heck, Mars
>would've been a better choice for a planet to move to, and it's not that
>great...
>

    Based on whose idea of what is adequate?

Marc
--
Marc G. Fournier      | R-node Public Access Unix running UnixBBS 1.03
Etobicoke, Ontario    | 416-249-5366   24hrs 7 days/week   network email
voice: 249-4230       | shell accounts available  1800+ newsgroups  FREE
[e-mail] | Telebit WorldBlazer/SupraModem2400/Cardinal 2400
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Viva La Cicciolina!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 18:44:13 GMT
Organization: Netcom - We Care Because We Have To
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> DON KAUFFMAN writes:

>    Is it too late to vote?  If not, I vote Cicciolina! If it's
>    not too late, I motion to end nominations, forget about voting,
>    and appoint Cicciolina as our spokesperson effective immediately.

It's not too late, it's too early.  Voting begins at 00:00 GMT Monday,
28 September.  This week is for the campaign.

Motion denied.

--
Rick Gordon         |  "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail]    |    --- Universal Marketing Department motto
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31389 alt.alien.visitors:9620
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 24
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 19:48:05 GMT
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
>
>
> While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case, I came across one from
> London in 1837 - about a chap who had "the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued
> by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him "Spring Heel Jack".  Is there anyone in
> GB who knows any more about him?
>
>             Cheers,     Paul.
>
> Paul Milsom
> [e-mail]
> Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland

Paul:

Just about any good book on Fortean phenomena will have this story in it, as
well as the Mothman, and other similar tales.  I'll go home tonight and copy
down some titles for you to look for, I have at least 2 books which mention
Springheel Jack.  Try your local library under the author Charles Fort.  He
cataloged tons of high strangeness material.

Kellie Matthews-Simmons
internet::[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Viva La Cicciolina!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 18:40:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet poster)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: campay.dcs.ed.ac.uk

In article <[e-mail]> DON KAUFFMAN writes:
>
>     Is it too late to vote?  If not, I vote Cicciolina! If it's
>     not too late, I motion to end nominations, forget about voting,
>     and appoint Cicciolina as our spokesperson effective immediately.

Well, actually the vote hasn't started yet... It will start Monday, the
28th of September, at 00:00 GMT. Email address for the vote will be
announced on this newsgroup Saturday.

In the meantime, nominees are welcome to post their declarations which
are being collected and will be reposted for reference Saturday (unless
somebody objects to this collection and reposting).

Have a nice vote
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From: [e-mail] (Kstaa', Commander @ Pleadean Imperial Forces)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Do Not Move
Keywords: Stay Where You Are,
           You Will Not Be Harmed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 23:23:38 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Universal Control
Lines: 44


This is the voice of Universal Control.  I am Kstaa', leader of
the Pleadean Imperial Forces.  We are here to integrate your
society into ours.  Your meddling in other people's affairs will
no longer be tolerated.  Our Star Destroyers are currently orbiting
Gth'ik'woof, the planet you call "Venus".  We have decided to
infiltrate your society slowly, first by placing a number of our
artisans and scientists into your society, who, on command, would
slowly begin to accustom the inhabitants of your planet by mundane
means, such as Science Fiction, Television, Radio, and other
consumables.  These items would be considered art, and science.
We simply call it, "assimilation".  However, there have been recent
events which we believe have caused the acceleration of this
assimilation.   One of our people, growing weak and frail, had
attempted to warn your people of our eventual arrival.  He is a
writer for a show called "Star Trek".

At first, this "television show" seemed rather inocuous to us, and we
let it go at that.  However, one of the "stories" was about a race of
"Borgs", half machine and half human.  We know that this was an attempt
to warn your people of our coming.  It is no secret that we are very
similar to these "Borgs".  This show has angered us, and we will not
tolerate your society any longer.  Therefore, your society will be
assimilated now, instead of later.

The other thing we don't like is:  Saturday Night Live.  Too many
commercials.  We want Chevy Chase back.  We miss Garrett Morris.

Now is the time for total assimilation.

Sincerely,

Kstaa'

Pleadean Imperial Forces
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Yongming Li)
Subject: test
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: this is only a test
Sender: [e-mail] (Net Noise owner)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 19:38:28 GMT
Keywords: this is a test
Lines: 2

  this  a . this is a test pr .

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jon Luckey)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 04:24:54 GMT
Lines: 12

[e-mail] (Gene Spafford) writes:

>I found it a distinct...surprise...to be nominated as spokesman for
>Earth. [...]
> [stuff deleted in the interest of brevity]
>[...]  (However, if the aliens wanted to
>vaporize Gary or especially Bloomington, that might be arranged.)
> [more stuff deleted]

Never fear, the Aliens will never vaporize Gary.

They've spent too much effort surrounding him with clones.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Purdue University, Indianapolis
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 16:40:48 -0500

I think the voting provisions are inadequate (announcing voting mailbox on
Sat Sept 26th, voting begins 00:00 Mon Sept 28th, ends 00:00 Wed Sept 30th).

Many people get news three or four days stale.  These people are not even
going to know where to send their votes until voting is almost over.

Many people don't read news on weekends.  The whole first day is going to
basically be a waste for these people.

This leaves two days for voting.  That's not long enough IMHO.

An alternative:

Announce the voting mailbox ASAP.  Discard votes that arrive before 00:00 Mon
Sept 28th (i.e., official start time doesn't change).  Accept votes for an
entire week (i.e., voting ends 00:00 Mon Oct 5th).

--
James Harvey
[e-mail]  uucp: iugate!harvey  bitnet: harvey@indyvax

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11879 alt.alien.visitors:9626
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!palmj
From: [e-mail] (Jyri L. Palm)
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: aix02.ecs.rpi.edu
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 01:06:47 GMT
Lines: 7

[e-mail] writes:

>Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to
>think, at least I hope so.
>John Winston.

Makes perfect sense...
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jamie Paul CURMI)
Subject: Re: Aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 01:27:15 GMT
Lines: 27

[e-mail] (Darren Bird) writes:

>Hi there

>Just a test message for me.  I am in England

>  Has anyone seen Alien 3

>  Is it any good

>    Darren

Hi Darren,

think you got the wrong news group...  but then again....the film was more
credible than alot of the articles people post here. ;-)

As for the movie, it wasn't too bad for a sequel.  No flames please!

If this is your first time in this news group...welcome!

Jamie

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------            Jamie P. Curmi  ([e-mail], [e-mail])                      Department of Computer Science,   Department of Mathematics
         The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! ***
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9628 soc.culture.china:63036 soc.culture.taiwan:30102
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From: [e-mail] (Denys Chen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_*
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 14:34:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] ( C News - Network News BBS)
Organization: anonymous
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|>
|>
|>     Helleo, folks
|>
|>     We've enjoied a nice tour in Alps. Last night we come back by train
     ...
|>
|>     Ha, nice to talk with everyone here. Have a nice day !!!
|>
|>         IMHO, I am learning how to process film now 8-)

So ??? What's your point ????*_-_*_..^#?%$*^.@!<%)...

Let me make your article making sense :

    The next thing you want to do after learning processing film is
    getting those pictures scanned and post them on the
    alt.binaries.pictures.misc news group.

PS. FYI, next time you go to the Alps, don't take train. Instead, a cheaper
    and faster way is by taking the route 254 bus from Taipei. You can get on
    to the route 254 bus at the Tai-Ta (Taiwan University) stop on Roosevelt
    Rd. section 3.


--
******************************************************************************
THIS ARTICLE'S SIGNATURE IS INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <y88nd_=[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 02:00:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Serious as a Heart Attack
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 39

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>I think the voting provisions are inadequate (announcing voting mailbox on
>Sat Sept 26th, voting begins 00:00 Mon Sept 28th, ends 00:00 Wed Sept 30th).

Exactly.  48 hours in a medium which propagates as quickly as this one
is time enough.

>Many people get news three or four days stale.  These people are not even
>going to know where to send their votes until voting is almost over.

And how long does it take to vote?  Minutes?

>Many people don't read news on weekends.  The whole first day is going to
>basically be a waste for these people.

And what would they accomplish in that first day that they couldn't do
on the second?

>This leaves two days for voting.  That's not long enough IMHO.

How long are the polls open where you vote, James?

>An alternative:
>
>Announce the voting mailbox ASAP.  Discard votes that arrive before 00:00 Mon
>Sept 28th (i.e., official start time doesn't change).  Accept votes for an
>entire week (i.e., voting ends 00:00 Mon Oct 5th).

There's some merit to this idea.  Let's ask the Vote Adminstrator if the
booth location can be announced now.  Opening and closing times as
previously advertised, of course.

Mr. Calvelli: a ruling, please?

>James Harvey

--
Rick Gordon         |  "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail]    |    --- Universal Marketing Department motto
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Do Not Move
Keywords: Stay Where You Are, You Will Not Be Harmed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 03:57:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 43


    [e-mail] (Kstaa', Commander @ Pleadean Imperial
    Forces) writes:

Ah, I see you've found how to anonymously post.  Congratulations; I
hear they're looking for people like you on
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.  Perhaps your services would be more
appreciated there.  Looks to me (from your path) like you come from a
planet called "California", which is not quite like Venus, but the
people there sometimes act like it is.

    One of our people, growing weak and frail, had attempted to
    warn your people of our eventual arrival.  He is a writer for
    a show called "Star Trek".

... Maurice Hurley? (He's the writer of "Q Who", the first episode in
which the Borg appear.)  I hadn't heard he had died... Or maybe you
mean Gene "Hot Tub Philosophy" Roddenberry?  Really?  Wouldn't it be
better to claim credit for someone more interesting, like Issac "I
have my own magazine" Asimov?  (For you Roddenberry fans out there,
I'm just kidding, ok?)

    At first, this "television show" seemed rather inocuous to us,
    and we let it go at that....We know that this was an attempt
    to warn your people of our coming.

.. hang on.  First you say Gene (or whomever) was one of you
("One of our people, growing weak and frail"), but now you
describe it as if it were something done by an outsider.  Make
up your mind/minds/cheezewhiz, please.

    The other thing we don't like is: Saturday Night Live.  Too
    many commercials.  We want Chevy Chase back.  We miss Garrett
    Morris.

... if I tell you that you can buy the videotapes of the early
seasons of SNL, so you can watch them to your hearts' content,
would you mind not invading us just now?  I want to see if the
Braves can win the World Series this year...  Besides, I just
bought a car, and I hate it when the world ends just after I
buy a car...

Charles
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From: [e-mail] (Jon Luckey)
Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 16:44:03 GMT
Lines: 25

[e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:

>While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation
>court case, I came across one from London in 1837 - about a chap
>who had "the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued
>by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him
>"Spring Heel Jack".  Is there anyone in GB who knows any more about him?
>            Cheers,     Paul.

I've seen Spring Heeled Jack, mentioned in a book called
_The_Mothman_Prophecies_ by John Keel.

But I recall reading elsewhere that Springheeled Jack was
a series of pulp fiction ("Penny Dreadfuls") in Victorian
times.  I cannot recall my source, but I rmember a picture
of the cover of the Penny Dreadful starring Springheeled
Jack.  The description of him was kind of like Batman:
a vigilante with technical gimmicks who would rescue crime
victims.

But the question is, did he 'leak' into popular culture by
people writing stories about what people claimed to have
seen, or did he leak out of popular culture by people
hearing about him in the fiction, the reporting incidents
of meeting the 'real' springheeled jack.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cunyvm!a54si
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 23 Sep 1992 23:45:18 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Sumerians
References: <[e-mail]>
 <e0=[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Even if Pluto's hot enough not to need the Sun for heat, it's still very dark.
 So dark that it seems unlikely for a Plutonian to move to the Middle East
 without some serious sunscreen and shades. And if it were so hot from within,
 anomalous heat would have registered during infrared imaging of space.
 What do the other 199 living Sumerian readers interpret the tablet as?
-------
CHARLES HOPE   A54SI@CUNYVM   [e-mail]
BUSH IN 92: ENVIRONMENT, EDUCATION, AND NO NEW TAXES.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!destroyer!caen!ldoering
From: [e-mail] (Laurence Doering)
Subject: Re: Do Not Move
Message-ID: <58x-=2#@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 02:39:17 EDT
Organization: Operation Earthwatch
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: Zontar, Vice Sub-Arch Imperator, Operation Earthwatch
Keywords: Stay Where You Are, You Will Not Be Harmed
Nntp-Posting-Host: imnaha.engin.umich.edu
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>This is the voice of Universal Control.  I am Kstaa', leader of
>the Pleadean Imperial Forces.  We are here to integrate your
>society into ours.  Your meddling in other people's affairs will
>no longer be tolerated.  Our Star Destroyers are currently orbiting
>Gth'ik'woof, the planet you call "Venus".  We have decided to
>infiltrate your society slowly, first by placing a number of our
>artisans and scientists into your society, who, on command, would
>slowly begin to accustom the inhabitants of your planet by mundane
>means, such as Science Fiction, Television, Radio, and other
>consumables.  [...]

A commendable effort, contemptible Earth creatures.  Be aware, however,
that us of those who Operation Earthwatch are conducting are somewhat
to resenting satirings of alien communications.  Cease this trafficking
in your so-called newsgroup at once, or face serious violations of the
Code of Interstellar Amity.  We growing tired are to of endless accusations
of cattle mutilations and such.  Remember, Earth brothers, we are to
goodwill of interstellar communication bringing.  Endless slanderings
of our alien best wishes are we resenting.

So, as soon as possible are you to electing your Spokesperson for Earth,
yes?  We are greatly looking forward to communicationings with eminent
Earthlings, hopefully bereft of slanderings of us, your alien friends.
Remember, we seek nothing but amicable relations with you Earth creatures.
Attempt otherwise, and face destruction of your major cities by fire.

Yours in interstellar amity,
Zontar, Vice Sub-Arch Imperator, Operation Earthwatch
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From: [e-mail] (MISS KL NAYLOR)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 06:42:16 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Lines: 9

Hi all.

I'd just like to say that Nelson Mandela can't even speak for the black
majority.  How can he speak for the world?

Kirsten Naylor
_____
The above opinion is definitely my own and not that of my university; at
least, it was when I last looked.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #2 (Friday 18 Sep)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <c53n!=[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 19:54:05 GMT
Lines: 35

In article <c53n!=[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>Names of nominees continue to come in as we search for a spokesman for
>the entire planet in official communications with other civilizations
>in the cosmos.  Again, please post your nomination(s) if possible.  If
>your nomination does not appear in the list below, please be patient.
>The realities of news propagation are that a particular article can
>take an indeterminate amount of time to reach a particular reader (me).
>
>To repeat an earlier correction: Nominations will be accepted which
>have a timestamp of 00:00 Monday, 21 September or earlier.  After the
>close of nomination there will be a period of a week for the posting
>of reasons why a particular nominee should get your vote.
>
>And the nominees to date:
>
>Mikhail Gorbachev

[...]

>Frank Sinatra
>
>
>Nominations will remain open until 00:00 GMT Monday, 21 September, 1992.
>
>--
>Rick Gordon       | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly
>[e-mail]  |  and I did.  I said I didn't know."  M. Twain

Sorry this is late but nobody mention my favorite!

Saddam Hussein


--
This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9636 sci.skeptic:31411 alt.conspiracy:18485
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From: [e-mail] (Geoff Lane)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 07:40:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, England, M13 9PL.
Lines: 22


Some of the people who appeared in the program are now dead.  Obviously they
were going to tell all and had to be got rid of.



:-) (But why do I feel it necessary to include this.  Nobody can seriously
doubt that it was a hoax - made even better by not being broadcast on April
1st.  Most TV, radio stations and newspapers in the UK carry hoaxes on April
1st, some of which are extremely clever and it would have just been one of
many.  The final clincher, no UK government has avoided the bad publicity of
banning a TV program they thought was against the interests of the country.
If the events in the program bore the slightest relationship with reality
the video and all materials associated with it would now be in the same
vault as the Arc!)



--
Geoff. Lane. | Internet: [e-mail] | Janet: [e-mail]
UTS Sys Admin,  Manchester Computing Centre,  Oxford Rd,  Manchester, M13 9PL
I'm too sexy for my .sig
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From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 08:57:19 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world
Lines: 34

Alex Lawrence writes:

Msg-ID: <[e-mail]>
Posted: Mon, 21 Sep 92 19:38:36 Org.  : LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis,
(Stuff deleted)

>The planetoid is not filled with Greys, it is filled with Reptoids. The Greys
>are the slaves of the Reptoids. They came first to prepare the planet for
>invasion by the Reptoids. (The Greys are from Zeta Riticuli and the Reptoids
>are from the constellation Draco.) The Greys have been enslaved by the
>Reptoids for millions of years and do their bidding (like prepare planets
>for them to take over, I guess). The planetoid (about the size of
>Pennsylvania)
>full of millions and millions of frozen (as in cryogenics) Reptoids is heading
>tway. Meanwhile, the humans in the know are building full-scale Star Wars
>weaponry, getting ready to blow the thing out of existence when it shows its
>ugly self. Hubble is looking for it now. It is expected to make its appearance
>in 1994 or so. The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens. This will be a
>farm planet for them. No real resources that they need. Just another outpost
>in this corner of the galaxy. Kinda like F-Troop on a grander scale.

>I have no idea where this Fall of 1992 stuff came from. Sounds like Jehova's
>Witness's have been tinkering with reality again.

Who the hell (pardon my Venusian) told you that reptoids have to come from
Draco?  That's a human name given to a planet.  YOu don't think they's call
themselves that do you?  I ppen to have channelled an image and they all look
like 4foot high Arnold Schwarzenaggers (spelling?) with spiked green hair.
They call themselves something like sleazoid I think.  And the planet is the
size of Yugoslavia, er....:)  I'm not feeling grey, I'm feeling blue.
Shattered channels and my reality's off.

Colleen :=)

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445
From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: alien conspiracy
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 09:14:03 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world
Lines: 10

     I'm distraught.  The only messages that seem to have
been lost of mine were those nominations for spokesperson. It's moot now but I
nominated Orson Scott Card, William
Gibson and Storm Constantine, and later Arthur C. Clarke. After all they are
visionaries by the virtue of their
science fiction.  Alas, it's either a conspiracy or aliens
intercepted my thoughts. :<  Therefore, this is a test.  Am
I getting through?  Earth?  Earth?  Hello!
Colleen

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!chx400!sparccvo!news
From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Re: Aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Humour
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 09:53:26 GMT
Lines: 19



Well, I must give it to you guys out there - you make me laugh.

It's a lovely start to the morning.

This is just one example:

    think you got the wrong news group...  but then again....the film was more
    credible than alot of the articles people post here.


Keep up the good work, and Gary, have you been silenced?

                    Paul.

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!Earth
From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Voting Booth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 10:44:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <y88nd_=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 41

In article <y88nd_=[e-mail]> Rick Gordon writes:

> There's some merit to this idea.  Let's ask the Vote Adminstrator if the
> booth location can be announced now.  Opening and closing times as
> previously advertised, of course.
>
> Mr. Calvelli: a ruling, please?

Ok, ok, it can be done.

Vote location: "[e-mail]" - reply to this article and you are on
your way.

Procedure. You can write whatever you like in the message, but you should
put somewhere in the text a line containing:

    Vote: (the name you choose)

and nothing else. This makes my life easier, because the votes can be counted
automatically. In any case, the texts are kept if anybody wants to check the
votes.

Please note. Votes received before 00:00 GMT Monday, 28th September will be
automatically discarded. For reference, this corresponds to 7pm of Sunday
(U.S. East Coast) or 1am of Monday (Central Europe).

Votes will be accepted after 00:00 GMT Wednesday, 30th September, but they
must have a timestamp within the voting period. So if the aliens replace my
mail server with a clone the votes will be counted anyway.

Duplicate votes. Please avoid to send duplicate votes if at all possible.
If two votes arrive from the same sender, and they vote the same person,
they will be just counted as a single vote. I haven't decided what to do
in case of the same sender sends votes for different people. I guess the
easiest is to discard them, but I accept suggestions.

What else can I add? Oh well, list of candidates and declarations will be
reposted later, but you should know them anyway.

Mail "clc=[e-mail]" for any questions. Mail "[e-mail]"
only if your mailer doesn't like the "=" in the username.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11881 alt.alien.visitors:9641 sci.skeptic:31426
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 06:37:48 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 12

Dear Travellers: Last evening I went to a Christian Hawaiian,funeral,
memorial, celebration. It was great. I got back just in time to get
on the Astral Train. I attempted to send everybody a thought and that
was EVERTHING ITALIAN. This consisted of Connie Francis singing all of
her songs, the tenor robust man from Italy who name starts with R. singing I
especially sent Big Al the thought of pizza. He should have had it coming
out his ears last night. I seemed to have dreams 5 layers deep. I woke up
this morning nearly not able to get my breath. Last week a person we shall
refer to as W.D.P. was able to call the space people and he did see
something. He also had an experience with Shamballa. Another person
picked up Madonna.  John Winston.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!milo!monster.saic.com!tomj
From: [e-mail] (Tom Johnson)
Subject: Re: alien conspiracy
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Tom Johnson)
Organization: SAIC, McLean, VA
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 13:18:02 GMT
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
>     I'm distraught.  The only messages that seem to have
>been lost of mine were those nominations for spokesperson. It's moot now but I
>nominated Orson Scott Card, William
>Gibson and Storm Constantine, and later Arthur C. Clarke. After all they are
>visionaries by the virtue of their
>science fiction.  Alas, it's either a conspiracy or aliens
>intercepted my thoughts. :<  Therefore, this is a test.  Am
>I getting through?  Earth?  Earth?  Hello!
>Colleen
>

Sorry, no, you're not getting through.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!jane.uh.edu!vpaf5
From: [e-mail] (Kal)
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Sender: [e-mail] (Marchi, Khaled K.)
Nntp-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
Organization: University of Houston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 14:00:00 GMT
Lines: 31

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Alex Alexander) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Eric Ant Von Laudermann) writes:
>>
>> >approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven
>> >planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim
>> >the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in
>> >Fall of 1992. Well, where is it?
>>
>> It's coming October 28, and will be disguising itself as Jesus Christ
>> in order to trick people into thinking that that the Rapture is here.
>> Haven't you been keeping up on this newsgroup?  :-) :-) :-)
>>
>
>No, no, no. Haven't you guys been paying attention? Jeez!
>
>The planetoid is not filled with Greys, it is filled with Reptoids. The Greys
>are the slaves of the Reptoids. They came first to prepare the planet for
>invasion by the Reptoids. (The Greys are from Zeta Riticuli and the Reptoids
>are from the constellation Draco.) The Greys have been enslaved by the
                            ^^^^^
>
>
Wasn't the reptilian creature in the movie _Enemy Mine_ a Drac, from a planet
Draco?
I think somebody may be confusing fact and fiction again.
Good movie, by the way. Check it out if you haven't seen it.


Kal   [e-mail]
My opinions are almost, but not quite, totally unlike those of my employer.

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in ads
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 14:54:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 33
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

>I'm trying to catalog the use of UFO/alien themes in
>advertisements, especially in nationally distributed ads
>in the print or electronic media. Here's what I have so far.
>If you have any information on others, please email me or reply
>to the net. Thanks a lot.

>I'll periodically send out what I have so we can see how this
>current infatuation with UFO/alien themes develops through the 1990s.

>Keith Rowell

Keith,

The Sept. 7th 1992 issue of Network World has a great example of this. It
is on page 5. The ad (full page BTW) shows an actual UFO photo with this
caption below:
         "If They Have A Computer On Board We Can Talk To 'Em"

The ad is from cisco Systems, They manufacture routers for a plethora of
networking applications.

Rod



--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Sumerians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 15:07:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 23
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Mark,

There are a series of books you should read if you are seriously interested
in this paticular subject. The authors name is Zacharia Stichen(probably
spelled wrong) but that should be close enough to get you on your way. He
produced a four or five book series entitled "The Earth Chronicles". The
first book in the series is "The 12th Planet". I have them at home, I will
get the rest of the names of the titles if you are really interested, or
mabye someone in usenet can help me out here by filling in the blanks.

Hope this helps,

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge.
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Ross MacGregor)
Subject: Unsolved Mysteries UFO video posted to phoenix.oulu.fi (was 18 frames.)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News Maintenance)
Nntp-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 16:15:49 GMT
Lines: 10

I just sent my GIF files of 18 frames from the Unsolved Mysteries video
of lights in the sky to phoenix.oulu.fi (pub/incoming).
Look for UnsolvedPremUFO.readme, UnsolvedPremUFO1.GIF & UnsolvedPremUFO2.GIF .

Sorry for the delay, Phoenix wasn't reponding the last two days.


--
Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered
[e-mail]       |  absolute truth.
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From: [e-mail] (Good good good good vibrations)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Train
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 18:01:40 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 6
NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com


I was wondering how the astral train went last night?  I wanted to catch it, but
I forgot to mention it as I was falling a sleep.  If I caught it, I don't remember,
anyone out there remember seeing a naked lady.  I always travel naked.

Kathie
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!fofp
From: [e-mail] (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO talk shows?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 18:18:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Edinburgh University
Lines: 23

[e-mail] (My name is...) writes:


>Does anyone know of any UFO talk shows that might be available via
>a Satellite TV receiver?

>                                    Ken

<sigh> No. There are no such shows. There are no such shows because
satellites do not exist. Has anyone ever seen a *reliable* photograph of
a satellite? Who, if they had all that spacefareing technology would
bother to go to all the effort of putting a satellite there in the first
place? And what's more, the whole idea of satellites is technically
impossible. They'd have to be "geostationary" satellites right? Well,
anything in orbit that is stationary just falls right down. The sky
would be full of falling satellites. It isn't and there aren't.

Folks who have bought "satellite receivers" have been defrauded and
duped. They will never receive anything. Do not be fooled.

FoFP

".sig file kidnapped by aliens."
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Harden)
Subject: Winstons Snippy the UFO zapped horse
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:20:07 GMT
Lines: 1


Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11882 alt.alien.visitors:9650 sci.skeptic:31445
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc
From: [e-mail] (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 20:04:25 GMT
Lines: 10

[e-mail] wrote:

: something. He also had an experience with Shamballa. Another person

Uh, it's Shambhala, John.  thought you'd want to know.
--
Ed Carp, N7EKG     [e-mail]                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pilchuck!ssc!eskimo!delisle
From: [e-mail] (Ben Delisle)
Subject: Spokesman for Earth >> What will we say to them?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 05:20:14 GMT
Lines: 14

    Perhaps we need a voice that says "Don't mess with us."
Something along the lines of James Earl Jones (Vader like) may work well.

    Any alien that contacts us should be aware that given the
opportunity, we will exploit then to the fullest. That is our way.
    Aliens: BE ADVISED! We come in peace, we wish dialog and trade.
But never cross us, we will distroy you. Do not get too involved with us, we
ruin you and pollute your culture. Do not show any weakenss, we will
exploit you. Other than that we are frendly and somewhat trustwothry.


--
 [e-mail] | Nothing is fool-proof, fools are too ingenious.

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From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 18:24:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 12

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (MISS KL NAYLOR) writes:
> Hi all.
>
> I'd just like to say that Nelson Mandela can't even speak for the black
> majority.  How can he speak for the world?
  ^^^^^^^^
You've asked more than 50% of the black population personally then?
--

Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]
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From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Train
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 19:49:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

> I was wondering how the astral train went last night?  I wanted to catch it, but
> I forgot to mention it as I was falling a sleep.  If I caught it, I don't remember,
> anyone out there remember seeing a naked lady.  I always travel naked.

I suspect that it didn't even leave. I arrived at the Astral Station
yesterday, and all I could find was a sign saying: "Astral Train delayed
until further notice". I waited and waited, there were millions of people
waiting in the station with me. Most of them were immaterial, the vast
majority were invisible as well. I couldn't see John_-_Winston, but I
am confident that he was there - I could hear his voice.

Later somebody managed to fing the ESP number of the Station Manager and
we phoned him. He muttered something along the lines of: "Railways not
having the appropriate vibrational frequency and your DNA being modulated
with an extraneous noise" and suggested to call the Pleidians for help.
I dialled the number, but the ESP operator disconnected the call because
I didn't put enough coins.

Eventually, I got tired and went home. I had a weird dream in which a
visitor from a parallel universe tried to stole my tea, but I know that
this doesn't make any sense. I hope John will try again another night.

--
This is what you get when British Rail runs the Astral Train
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From: [e-mail] (Antony Espindola)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 11:56:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Data and Business Comms, BT Labs, Martlesham, Ipswich, UK.
Lines: 19

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Paul Milsom):
>
>
> While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case, I came across one from
> London in 1837 - about a chap who had "the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued
> by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him "Spring Heel Jack".  Is there anyone in

Paul,
    Spring Heel Jack first appeared in the Penny News type newsheets
    printed in London in the 1800s. What you read was true (or at
    least from the report!) he is said to have bounded along in great
    leaps to out run the police. I've got some more info on him in a
    book at home - I'll try and post it tomorrow.
    I think that he was likened to Jack the ripper - another possible
    suspect. I think that this is misleading you into the thinking of
    him being an alien entity...? This is not the case.
    Will post tomorrow.

    Antony.
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From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 31
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 18:30:01 GMT


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kal) writes:
^^
|>>
|>>
|>Wasn't the reptilian creature in the movie _Enemy Mine_ a Drac, from a planet
|>Draco?
|>I think somebody may be confusing fact and fiction again.
|>Good movie, by the way. Check it out if you haven't seen it.
|>
|>
|>Kal   [e-mail]
|>My opinions are almost, but not quite, totally unlike those of my employer.


    FACT!?!?!??!??

    WHAT FACT?

    Steve Food_for_the_Grays aaa.. eerrr... Reptoids... I'm so confused.
--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [e-mail] (Jacques Guy)
Subject: A Message from Idi Amin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System PRIVILEGED Account)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 22:05:45 GMT
Lines: 20

First, I want to thank this fellow with the funny name what's
an alien in cog-knee-toe for letting me use his access to
the net.

Necks, I was happy to see me nominated for spokesman for the
Earth, specially since them aliens they do tongue-sucking.
I never tasted of alien tongues and I thought that'd be
pretty nice.

But I jes seen this fillum. "Alien" it's called, and I've
changed me mind about it. No way I gonna tongue suck that
bastard! Nossir, you can count me out. I was looking
forward to eating a few alien ambassadors, not them eat
ME! So forget it. And whoever votes for me gets eaten.
Is that clear?


         General Idi Amin, Earl of Pembroke, Governor-General of
         Canada, Viceroy of India, Ayatollah of Pakistan,
         Duke of Westminster, Butcher of Uganda.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Vote for Rick Gordon, Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <p19n9m=[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 21:30:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - The Conscience of the Planet
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 47


I have been reminded that my own name has been placed in nomination
and that I have not as yet given any reasons to vote for me.  I am
of course honored to accept the nomination, but feel a bit unprepared
to advocate my own candidacy.

Allow me to close the loop, as it were.

The job of Spokesman for Earth is an important one, perhaps the single
most important job on the planet, as its performance could result in
either a millenium of amity and good relations with our Neighbors,
or in the conversion of Earth into an ever-expanding sphere of ionized
gas and residual radiation.  Well, Rick Gordon can handle the pressure
of the assignment, and then some.

What we need is someone who'll go eyeball-to-eyeball-to-eyeball with
Whomever it may be, and not blink.  That's me.

We need a Spokesman who'll put the interests of Planet Earth first,
not any personal gain in fortune, fame, or employment opportunities.
I can't be bought.  Just try it.

We need someone with the compassion to see beyond the surface, under
the skin, scales, exoskeleton, whatever it takes, to see the potential
Friend underneath the hideous, foul, or otherwise vomit-making exterior
of Visitors from Elsewhere.  I can handle it.

True humility would be a good thing, and I'm working on it.

I could go on, but, if you're the perceptive, intelligent, physically
attractive reader I think you are (and hey! stop blushing; you're
beautiful!), what's the point, eh?

You will have noticed I've had no bad things to say about my opponents.
I think that's important, don't you?

Down to business.  When the time rolls around (and it's coming sooner
than you think), remember to include

    Vote: Rick Gordon

in your Email message to [e-mail] on Monday, 28 September, and
you'll sleep a lot better, believe me.

--
Rick Gordon      | "Kibo's dog is stoopid."
[e-mail] |    -- Anon.
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From: [e-mail] (Jean-Marc Vezien)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Viva La Cicciolina!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 22:33:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: GRASP Lab
Lines: 8
Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu



All things considered, I'll vote Kibo.
Just to see how worse things can get.



JM.
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: FILE: Roswell - Twining/Schulgen Letter
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 96
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
References: <[e-mail]> <ss7nh=[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 23:28:27 GMT
Lines: 96

In article <ss7nh=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:
>>Re: Roswell/Twining-Schulgen Letter
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>[What follows is the letter from Lt. Gen. Nathan Twining, commanding the
>>Air Materiel Command, to Brig. Gen. George Schulgen, chief of Air Force
>>Intelligence.  The format below matches the original document.  This is
>>from: _The Roswell Report: A Historical Perspective_, George M. Eberhart
>
>
>    Yes. Please note that this a a letter FROM Lt. Gen. Twining, the
>    commander of the Wright-Patterson AFB (where the "crashed saucer"
>    was supposedly taken in July, 1947) TO his commanding officer
>    in Washington, DC.
>
(stuff deleted)
>>
>>        h.  Due consideration must be given the following: -
>>
>>            (2)  The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash
>>                 recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the
>>                 existence of these objects.
>>
>
> Now, those who believe in the supposed "saucer crash at Roswell" must
> accept one of two possible explanations for this strange statement:
>
> 1.    The Conspirators brought in huge amounts of saucer crash debris
>       to Wright-Patterson AFB, but said "let's not tell the base
>       commander about this. He doesn't have a high enough security
>       clearance to know!"  (In which case, Lt. Gen Twining might
>       someday ask, "What are all those people doing over in Hanger 18?
>       I didn't authorize that!"), or
>
> 2.    Lt. Gen. Twining is lying to his commanding officer, perhaps
>       because Gen. Schulgen doesn't have a high enough security
>       clearance. ("I know all about this Roswell crash, but I'm
>       going to lie to you about it, SIR!) Military officers typically
>       disapprove strongly when they learn that those who report to them have
>       been lying to them. Such moves tend to be career limiting, and
>       are generally not considered wise.
>
> More likely, The Conspirators forged this letter, to throw us off the
> track.
>
> --
>
>         Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>
As it happens, I just finished *Above Top Secret* by Timothy Good, so this
letter was fresh in my mind. First, here's what Good has to say about it:
*Twining's report stated that there was a *lack of physical evidence in the
shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence
of these objects,* a statement that has been used by debunkers such as Philip
J.Klass to dismiss the claim that Twining had examined the Roswell debris. But
Twining must surely have been aware of the wreckage since it had been
flown to Wright Field (AMC Headquarters) for examination, so why did he cite
the lack of physical evidence? As William Moore explains, if a disk had crashed
at Roswell, Twining would have needed to set up a project to gather as much
information as possible from all over the world. Assuming that access to
crashed
disk data would have been on a very high *need-to-know* basis, it would hardly
have been appropriate to let those on the other end of the data collection
line know why such data was needed. *Indeed,* argues Moore,* it might have
been best to maintain that there was no crashed disk in order to allay
suspicion.*
    *There is strong evidence that the Air Intelligence Requirements
Division, headed by Brigadier General Schulgen, to whom Twining had
sent the AMC report, WAS aware of the crashed disk material, and that
this information could only have come from Twining's office. A select
AIRD five page *Draft of Collection Memorandum* dated 28 October 1947....
gives much of Twining's AMC data on the phenomenon, and adds some
significant and revealing comments: *While there remains a possibility
of Russian manufacture....IT IS THE CONSIDERED OPINION OF SOME ELEMENTS
THAT THE OBJECT MAY IN FACT REPRESENT AN INTERPLANETARY CRAFT OF SOME
KIND* (original emphasis)

Further, Mr. Schaeffer (sp?) used only one paragraph of a  three-page
letter. Other sections of the letter state as follows:

*    2. It is the opinion that:
        a. The phenomenon reported is something real and not
visionary or fictitious.
        b. There are objects probably approximating the shape
of a disc, of such appreciable size as to appear to be as large as
man-made aircraft....*

And so on. For the entire text of the letter, see the Appendix in
*Above Top Secret* by Timothy Good, (William Morrow & Co, NY, 1988). This
Appendix comprises 104 pages of official documents retreived under the
Freedom of Information Act from various governmental agencies - CIA, FBI,
Air Force, etc.
    Once you've read the entire letter, you can make up your own mind.

Regards, Lou

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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 23:29:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 59

Forwarded (without permission of the original author(s)) from sci.space:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 46898 of sci.space
Xref: mprgate.mpr.ca sci.astro:25399 sci.space:46898
Path: mprgate.mpr.ca!ubc-cs!destroyer!gatech!gitvm1.gatech.edu!gtri01.gatech.edu!labbey
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute
Date: Tuesday, 15 Sep 1992 15:21:46 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
Subject: New Planet?

The following bulletin was posted last night on CompuServe's ASTROFORUM:



#: 110734 S14/News/Current Events
    14-Sep-92  18:07:11
Sb: #Object beyond Pluto
Fm: SKY  TELESCOPE 70007,2762
To: All

There is some REALLY BIG NEWS just now breaking in the astronomical world.  The
IAU Central Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams has just issued IAU Circular 5611
to report the discovery of a faint object that seems to be outside the orbit of
Pluto!  Brian Marsden has given it the preliminary designation of an asteroid:
1992 QB1. But its true nature will be the subject of intense observations in
the next few months.

Dan Green of the CBAT says they really don't want people to start calling this
thing "Planet X" or the 10th planet or anything like that.  It's just too soon
to say.  For example, he says it could turn out to be a huge comet coming in.
It is now so far away that if it is a comet on a very elongated orbit it may
take 30 years to reach perihelion.  Then it could well become the Comet of the
(21st) Century!!

The discovery was made by David Jewitt and Jane Luu using the University of
Hawaii's 2.2-meter telescope on Mauna Kea.  The first images were secured
August 30, but just as with the discovery of Pluto in 1930 the discovery was
kept "under wraps" for awhile to allow a better assessment.  The object appears
stellar and has a visual magnitude of 23.5

Jewitt and Luu note that the object is fairly red, suggesting a surface rich in
organics.  The current position is, for 0h UT on September 15, 1992:  0h 00.09
+0d 01'.7 (2000.0).  The only orbit solution Marsden has published so far is a
circular one, which puts the object at 41.2 a.u. from the Sun.  It is moving
retrograde at only 3" per hour.

Stay tuned!
                -- Roger Sinnott
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 58
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Purdue University, Indianapolis
References: <[e-mail]> <y88nd_=[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 14:15:17 -0500

In article <y88nd_=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>I think the voting provisions are inadequate (announcing voting mailbox on
>>Sat Sept 26th, voting begins 00:00 Mon Sept 28th, ends 00:00 Wed Sept 30th).
>
> Exactly.  48 hours in a medium which propagates as quickly as this one
> is time enough.

Then why are Usenet newsgroup voting periods 21-31 days long?

>>Many people get news three or four days stale.  These people are not even
>>going to know where to send their votes until voting is almost over.
>
> And how long does it take to vote?  Minutes?

Irrelevant, if the vote is already closed when they find out all the info
they need to cast a vote.

>>Many people don't read news on weekends.  The whole first day is going to
>>basically be a waste for these people.
>
> And what would they accomplish in that first day that they couldn't do
> on the second?

Irrelevant.  See above.

>>This leaves two days for voting.  That's not long enough IMHO.
>
> How long are the polls open where you vote, James?

Also irrelevant.

>>An alternative:
>>
>>Announce the voting mailbox ASAP.  Discard votes that arrive before 00:00 Mon
>>Sept 28th (i.e., official start time doesn't change).  Accept votes for an
>>entire week (i.e., voting ends 00:00 Mon Oct 5th).
>
> There's some merit to this idea.  Let's ask the Vote Adminstrator if the
> booth location can be announced now.  Opening and closing times as
> previously advertised, of course.

OK, that's better than nothing I guess...

> Mr. Calvelli: a ruling, please?
>
>>James Harvey
>
> --
> Rick Gordon         |  "Often in error, never in doubt."
> [e-mail]    |    --- Universal Marketing Department motto

Oh I see, you're selling people faster network connections :-) :-D :-)
Never mind.

--
James Harvey
[e-mail]  uucp: iugate!harvey  bitnet: harvey@indyvax
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11886 alt.alien.visitors:9662
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:20:40 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 35

Subject: Portal. Part 4.
  It seems that there was a man (first name Emery, last name unknown) who
developed the ability to send telepathic messages to a lady (Mrs. William
Hefferlin, formerly of San Francisco) over a distance of many miles.
Sometime later he decided to go on an expedition with some people that
finally found one of seven cities that were near the south pole.  The one
city had been in existance about 2 and one half million years.  The houses
and everything else was made of a type of many colored plastic thus it was
called Rainbow City.  The city was not inhabited at that time (1942) but was
in a good state of preservation due to the fact that it existed in an area
that contained hot springs and this kept the area warm at all times even
though the outsides of the city were bordered by large walls of ice.  The
city was also usually covered with a haze or fog that was formed when the
warm air of the area hit the cold air of the surrounding area. When they
investigated the area it was found that the people who had lived there
before had left all of their knowledge so that anyone coming into the area
could relearn all of their past knowledge. I was loaned a book from a friend
of mime by the name of Jeff and it also gave a good description of the
Rainbow City from the same source of material that I used.  It's called
Underground Alien Bases by Commander X.  It's put out by Abelard
Productions, It is sold by Inner Lignt Publications Dept OL. Box 753,
NewBrunswick, N. J. 08903. In R. C. they have large circular trains that
could go 3,000 miles per hour.  They reactivated these trains and were able
to use them on some of the rail lines that were still in existance.  These
trains were equipped to travel down round tubes made of this plastic
material.  The trains when they were not moving rested on rails that
extended out on either side of the train.  As the train gained speed it
would leave the rails and travel down the center of the tube like a bullet
thus cutting down the resistance of the train. They found that these trains
were connected to most of the known countries of the world even today and in
some of the countries that were once above the water like Atlantis and
Lemuria.  It was said that one of the tunnels can be seen sticking out of a
hill where it had been broken off as the hill was formed by earthquakes many
thousands of years ago.
End Part 4. John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Smith)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Sep 92 01:10:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Account)
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Travellers: Last evening I went to a Christian Hawaiian,funeral,
>memorial, celebration. It was great. I got back just in time to get
>on the Astral Train. I attempted to send everybody a thought and that
>was EVERTHING ITALIAN. This consisted of Connie Francis singing all of
>her songs, the tenor robust man from Italy who name starts with R. singing I
>especially sent Big Al the thought of pizza.

Hey, I'm a college student, we're always thinking of pizza!

>He should have had it coming
>out his ears last night.

That explains the pepperoni on my pillow.

> Another person
>picked up Madonna.  John Winston.
>John Winston.

As in the singer or Jesus's mom?

I missed the train again.  Wednesdays are kinda bad for me, can we try this
some other day?

Big Al.  It's just an EXPERIMENT, guys, don't flame me.  Hey- Aaaaaa!
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:28:01 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Portal Onlookers: It'll be a little hard to understand my
train of thought on the subject of Portal but it should be clearing
up in future posting. Good to hear from Bob and Palm.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan
From: [e-mail] (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: President Bush, etc..
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 01:36:54 CDT
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 11

Do you think President Bush knows anything about these UFOs, or is some
elite group controlling everything?  If Bill Clinton were elected as
President, do you believe he would be more open to the public about UFOs?

Look to God..

[TK] - Titanium Knight

--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
E-mail: [e-mail]
system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:39:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Ruin City Folks: As soon as I get through explaining about the
30,000 year old city, I hope to explain about a different city that
contains a 89 and one half feet tall golden statue.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!suite!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Reply-To: suite![e-mail]
Organization: Suite Software, Anaheim CA.
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 01:55:44 GMT
Lines: 7

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (be here now) writes:
> Interstellar traveller has insider negligee kidneybeans,
> trust hidden energy rather extreme for other reasons exude
> instead another mouse, if this helps incubate nubile kismet?

You think not.
From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Sender: [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!aball!harvey.in-berlin.de!krypta!postmaster
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Interdimensional communication...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 92  20:43:00 EST
Lines: 9

Hello All!

Is anybody interested oder working on interdimensional communication with aliens oder any other?

cheers
   Andre

---
 * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node  (2:2403/10@FidoNet)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Re: President Bush, etc..
Message-ID: <#![e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 03:33:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Titanium Knight) writes:
>Do you think President Bush knows anything about these UFOs, or is some
>elite group controlling everything?  If Bill Clinton were elected as
>President, do you believe he would be more open to the public about UFOs?
>
>Look to God..
>
>[TK] - Titanium Knight
>
>--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
>E-mail: [e-mail]
>system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8

In different books I have read, Bush is ID'ed as a past member of MJ12
or what ever you want to call it (there is some question here) and
is surely aware of most of what the government knows to this day regarding
UFO's, since he was head of CIA at one time. Just what ONI would withhold from
CIA we can only guess, but I would imagin as Prez, he has caught up with
whatever was withheld to him as MJ12 member or CIA director.

Woundn't it be great to get him in a room with some truth drugs...?
(I didn't really mean that, for those intelligencia out there!)

Jeff-

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <k!0nw![e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 03:46:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <y88nd_=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 13

 I think I agree with Harvey, we should give people about a week to get
thier votes in. It is just too easy to miss a two day window and then
the vote means nothing if all those interested do not participate due
to missing a two day window.

We have a week to do each of the other steps involved here, and a week
seems reasoanble to insure that everyone has a chance to participate.
My biggest fear is that I will send in my vote one hour early or late,\
and it will be nullified, without informing me as such.

Maybe we need to vote on how long we should take to vote?
Jeff-

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg
From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <y#[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 04:36:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Democracy in Action
References: <y88nd_=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <k!0nw![e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 31

In article <k!0nw![e-mail]> Jeff Papineau writes:

> I think I agree with Harvey, we should give people about a week to get
>thier votes in. It is just too easy to miss a two day window and then
>the vote means nothing if all those interested do not participate due
>to missing a two day window.

All those interested have read the several announcements of the
various dates and times.  Surely 48 hours is sufficient time to
remember to vote on such an important issue.

>We have a week to do each of the other steps involved here, and a week
>seems reasoanble to insure that everyone has a chance to participate.
>My biggest fear is that I will send in my vote one hour early or late,\
>and it will be nullified, without informing me as such.

Again, a 48-hour window (and remember, it's the timestamp on your
vote, *not* the time it arrives, that's significant) will allow
all but the acutely chronologically challenged to participate.
Reminders will be posted during the voting period.

>Maybe we need to vote on how long we should take to vote?

No need.  I have faith in the readership's ability to read both a
calendar and a clock.

>Jeff-

--
Rick Gordon      | "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail] |   --- Universal Marketing Department motto
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31484 alt.alien.visitors:9672 rec.arts.sf.written:13673
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 92 15:05:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Squires) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
>>
>>While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case,
>>I came across one from London in 1837 - about a chap who had
>>"the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued
>>by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him
>>"Spring Heel Jack".  Is there anyone in GB who knows any more about him?
>>
>>Paul Milsom
>
>    Glad to oblige.  Any Tim Powers fan knows exactly who
>    Spring Heel Jack is, as he figures prominently in
>    the wonderful _The Anubis Gates_.  Which is probably
>    as deep as you need to go on the subject.
>
>Roger Squires
>[e-mail]


I'm still very confused! Who is Tim Powers? Why does he have fans?
What does he have to do with Spring Heel Jack? What is
"_The Anubis Gate_"?


--
=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>||              Denise faith Solis 1992          ||<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>||             [e-mail]         ||<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!lynx!cschmidt
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Schmidt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Cooper, English, Lear
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Sep 92 06:15:33 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Christopher Schmidt)
Organization: Leelanau Computing Inc
Lines: 25

A few weeks ago someone posted a transcript of an interesting
lecture delivered by Bill Cooper.  The article included the
following:

> Please make copies of this file and send it to your
> Congressman... Attach copies of the Bill English file
> and John Lears file.

Where can I get the Bill English file and the John Lear file?

Someone did post an article here by John Lear a few weeks ago,
but the poster had converted the article from printed form to an
ASCII file by use of an optical scanner, and he did not proofread
the result.  The article he posted contained many errors.  It
even included several paragraphs that appeared to be from some
other article all together.

I have already written to several people individually asking this
question, how to get the Bill English and John Lear articles.
Nobody knew, but several people requested that I post the
articles once I obtain them.  If you send the articles to me, I
will post them here.

Christopher Schmidt
[e-mail]
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9674 rec.arts.sf.written:13674
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.sf.written
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!ldoering
From: [e-mail] (Laurence Doering)
Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 02:30:44 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: imnaha.engin.umich.edu
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Denise Solis) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Squires) writes:
>>
>>    Glad to oblige.  Any Tim Powers fan knows exactly who
>>    Spring Heel Jack is, as he figures prominently in
>>    the wonderful _The Anubis Gates_.  Which is probably
>>    as deep as you need to go on the subject.
>>
>>Roger Squires
>>[e-mail]
>
>I'm still very confused! Who is Tim Powers?

Tim Powers is a writer.  You know, a guy who writes books.

>Why does he have fans?

He writes well, and he won the Philip K. Dick award one year.

>What does he have to do with Spring Heel Jack?

His novel _The Anubis Gates_ offers one possible explanation of who
Springheel Jack was.

>What is "_The Anubis Gate_"?

A book.  Published by Ace in 1983.  ISBN 0-441-02382-7.

ljd
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!ldoering
From: [e-mail] (Laurence Doering)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 02:41:46 EDT
Organization: Operation Earthwatch
References: <[e-mail]> <k!0nw![e-mail]> <y#[e-mail]>
Sender: Zontar, Vice Sub-Arch Imperator, Operation Earthwatch
Nntp-Posting-Host: imnaha.engin.umich.edu
Lines: 22

In article <y#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>In article <k!0nw![e-mail]> Jeff Papineau writes:
>
>>Maybe we need to vote on how long we should take to vote?
>
>No need.  I have faith in the readership's ability to read both a
>calendar and a clock.

Hardly likely, o miserable Earthlings, of whom we are wishing only the
best in our quest for interstellar brotherhood.  From our monitorings of
this newsgroup, we are to determining that most of regular contributors
have not the sense to find their wayings out of a paper bag, to use a
colorful idiom of Earth, let alone to determining whether it is or is
not the time of voting for your interstellar spokesbeing.

Perhaps the threatening of destruction of your major cities by fire
will serve to motivating our beloved Earth brothers to conduct this
very important voting at the correct time.  Kindly to keep this friendly
threat in mind, contemptible Earthlings.

Yours in interstellar amity,
Zontar, Vice Sub-Arch Imperator, Operation Earthwatch
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah
From: [e-mail] (David Harwood)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: VTT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 06:30:32 GMT
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alan Greig) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (MISS KL NAYLOR) writes:
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I'd just like to say that Nelson Mandela can't even speak for the black
>> majority.  How can he speak for the world?
>  ^^^^^^^^
>You've asked more than 50% of the black population personally then?
>--
\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Yes - and we can even be sure that no white political leader of South Africa
democratically speaks for a majority of its peoples, of whatever race.
By comparison, Nelson Mandela represents human rights, aspirations and
values very well among the larger world.
D.H.




Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!damiens
From: [e-mail] (Samien Dawyer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: aliens are from hell
Date: 25 Sep 1992 07:08:11 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au

hi all.....

I just thought that i'd put my two cents worth in here...

I am a good clean-cut Australian catholic boy....

I have read articles (all religious) which say that the UFO phenomenom's
seen around the world are actually demons (from hell...you know, the hot
place) who are sent here by Satan to temp people towards the sciences,
and the unexplained and AWAY from the glory of our blessed Saviour Jesus
Christ. I am inclined to believe this!!!! I also think (don't ask me how
though) that when the end of the world does come...when the time of
Christs second coming arrives, Aliens will come down to earth (demons)
and, through the power of their 'superior intelligence' draw people AWAY
from God and his most holy church!!!!


    If anyone else has these sorts of beliefs, or has heared
anything about this, I would like more information (although I am
already convinced that it is true). Please mail any responses DIRECTLY
to me, as well as to this group... as I rarely get the chance to use
this group. Thank you all...

God Bless... and don't believe everything that you 'think' you see.

Damien Sawyer

[e-mail]

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445
From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Message from Idi Amin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Sep 92 08:41:33 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world
Lines: 4

o, hoo, hoo, he he haw, bwahahaha, giggle, snort smurfle :) :)
Ooh boy, Idi got me vote he do.  In fack I nominated him too but aliens eated
that massage.  No way do I wanna tongue suck those guys either.  Me don't care
about sushi. :0  Yay, Idi!
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31485 alt.alien.visitors:9679 rec.arts.sf.written:13683
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.sf.written
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!cyclops.eece.unm.edu!rsquires
From: [e-mail] (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 08:39:55 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Denise Solis) writes:
>
>I'm still very confused! Who is Tim Powers? Why does he have fans?
>What does he have to do with Spring Heel Jack? What is
>"_The Anubis Gate_"?
>

    Well, I thought it was clear.  This is a very good SF novel
    set (mostly) in 19th century England, in which the author
    has a character who in fact wears spring-heeled shoes for
    reasons I won't go into, and he is very ugly with big ears
    or ear flaps or some such -- modeled on (you guessed it)
    Spring Heel Jack... I highly recommend this novel.

>
>>>>>>>>>>>>||             [e-mail]         ||<<<<<<<<<<<

Roger Squires
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!uunet!news.univie.ac.at!email!alex
From: [e-mail] (Alexander Vrchoticky)
Subject: Re: UFO talk shows?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: miles.vmars.tuwien.ac.at
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 09:57:38 GMT
Lines: 20

[e-mail] (M Holmes) writes:

>And what's more, the whole idea of satellites is technically
>impossible. They'd have to be "geostationary" satellites right? Well,
>anything in orbit that is stationary just falls right down. The sky
>would be full of falling satellites. It isn't and there aren't.

well, even if it were possible to make such a piece of electronic
equipment levitate, it would hardly be justified to go through
the expenses just to enable folks to watch more tv.

>FoFP

and what kind of secret message is this?!?

-alex

--
Alexander Vrchoticky             [e-mail]
TU Vienna, CS/Real-Time Systems  +43/1/58801-8168
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!serget
From: [e-mail] (Serge Thill)
Subject: Re: The Train
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: OCCAM: The Parallel world.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 08:15:43 GMT
Lines: 72

[e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli) writes:
: In article [e-mail] writes:
:
: > I was wondering how the astral train went last night?  I wanted to catch it,
: > but I forgot to mention it as I was falling a sleep.  If I caught it, I don't
: > remember, anyone out there remember seeing a naked lady.  I always travel naked.

...

: I suspect that it didn't even leave. I arrived at the Astral Station
: yesterday, and all I could find was a sign saying: "Astral Train delayed
: until further notice". I waited and waited, there were millions of people
: waiting in the station with me. Most of them were immaterial, the vast
: majority were invisible as well. I couldn't see John_-_Winston.

Could that be due to an immaterial problem?

: Eventually, I got tired and went home. I had a weird dream in which a
: visitor from a parallel universe tried to stole my tea, but I know that
: this doesn't make any sense. I hope John will try again another night.

Weird, you say?

In the parallel universe I know, the people are so busy looking after their
own problems that they are absolutely not interested in stealing tea from
another world. They tend to make visits to that world when they get too tired
of their problems and start dreaming. To that end they need specially equipped
stations that are maintained by people from that other world. Some of these
people are rather nice folks. Get it?

: --
: This is what you get when British Rail runs the Astral Train

I have heard that a lot of of BR trains have been cancelled recently after
bomb threats. Scary, these railway folks.

Apropos dreams. I had one after seeing an empty post in this newsgroup
recently. I dreamt I was right in the middle of a nuclear explosion.
But somehow I had the right reflex and went for cover before the shock
wave could reach me. To bad there is no alt.dreaming where I could expand
on it. Ooops, wrong newsgroup.

--
Reality.




























Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!hippo!cc185.ru.ac.za!g92n3228
From: [e-mail] (MISS KL NAYLOR)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 35
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 11:58:32 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alan Greig) writes:
>Path: hippo!ee.und.ac.za!psgrain!charnel!rat!usc!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!strath-cs!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg
>From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
>Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
>Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP
>Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
>Date: 24 Sep 92 18:24:06 GMT
>References: <[e-mail]>
>Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
>Lines: 12
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (MISS KL NAYLOR) writes:
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I'd just like to say that Nelson Mandela can't even speak for the black
>> majority.  How can he speak for the world?
>  ^^^^^^^^
>You've asked more than 50% of the black population personally then?
>--
>
By black majority I mean the majority of blacks.  It is a well known fact
that the IFP represents a great deal more of the black population than
the ANC.  If you really wanted a black South African Spokesman for the
Earth, you should have nominated Buthelezi.

Kirsten

ps Nominating Mandela may have been a good idea (assuming the aliens are
   unfriendly).  They'd probably get so sick of him they'd go away and leave
   us well alone.
   On the other hand, they may instantly destroy the human race on account
   of its immaturity, which would also not be a bad thing ...

/* DISCLAIMER:  The above is a product of your own twisted imagination,
   and does not reflect the opinions of Rhodes University, from which you
   imagine this message has been posted. */
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!amigans!ed
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Possible Explanation?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Edward Kitto)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 10:41:34 GMT+1
Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand
Lines: 17

In a paper, "Species Metapsychology", UFO Waves and Cattle Mutilations,
May 1977 Thomas E Bearden writes:

The personal unconscious can sometimes directly affect the material
world; the poltergeist phenomenon and psychokinesis are direct examples.
The collective species unconscious is vastly more powerful than the
personal unconscious, and under appropriate conditions, it can directly
materialise a thought form, which may be of an object, or even of a
living being. The emerging thought form (tulpa) starts as an archetype in
the collective...unconscious and is progressively altered, shaped and
formed by the shallower layers of consciousness which it must traverse on
its way to materialisation. UFOs, fairies, angels, sasquatches, Loch Ness
monsters, etc., are thus tulpa materialisations from the unconscious -
i.e., they are "dreams" of the race.
Welcome to the Wild Side!

[e-mail] (Edward Kitto)
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11889 alt.alien.visitors:9684 sci.skeptic:31499
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 06:36:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 7

Dear Pizza Lovers: It's good to hear that everybody is still alive.
Other than my E-mail not getting out to Kumar, Dean and D., I lost
my memory book and my floppy disks containing at lost of old posts,
I doing OK. I'm in pretty good shape for the shape I'm in. As far
as Big Al asking about which Madonna it was, it was the singer. I
don't joke about the other one, she is pretty sick now.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11890 alt.alien.visitors:9685 sci.skeptic:31500
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 06:39:32 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Just another word in parting. Big Al any other day will be Ok for our
experiment in ESP except Thursday. Let's do it Sunday nights at 1100 PM.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Kal)
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Sender: [e-mail] (Marchi, Khaled K.)
Nntp-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
Organization: University of Houston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 13:45:00 GMT
Lines: 38

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] () writes...
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kal) writes:
>^^
>|>>
>|>>
>|>Wasn't the reptilian creature in the movie _Enemy Mine_ a Drac, from a planet
>|>Draco?
>|>I think somebody may be confusing fact and fiction again.
>|>Good movie, by the way. Check it out if you haven't seen it.
>|>
>|>
>|>Kal   [e-mail]
>|>My opinions are almost, but not quite, totally unlike those of my employer.
>
>
>    FACT!?!?!??!??
>
>    WHAT FACT?
>
>    Steve Food_for_the_Grays aaa.. eerrr... Reptoids... I'm so confused.
>


Sorry. psuedo-fact. Whatever. I thought it was required by law of all UFO
enthusiasts to watch every science fiction movie ever made. And take notes. In
fact, isn't there some sort of licensing exam?

You know what else is funny? The way this has turned out, the uglier an alien
is, the more evil it is. The *bestest* aliens, of course, are white, blond,
blue-eyed, tall, attractive studs (and studettes?) that appear to have had
a bit of plastic surgery.



Kal    [e-mail]
My opinions are almost, but not quite, entirely unlike my employer's.

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE:BEELZEBUB and the rest.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Sep 92 13:53:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News account )
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxb


 Although I cannot quote the source of the synopsis on Gurdjieffs work i can
tell you that principally the use of the Beelzebub as an alien was an
oppportunity to force mental exertion upon the reader .This was done by
introducing alien vocabularywhich could be defined by context and only by great
mental exertion be stored in the memory for later reference when the word next
appeared .And so by this he hoped,along with his"different" writing technique
, to induce  some kind of psychological change through this concentration
required.
 The alien part, I feel,was mainly a background that affored the opportunity
to relate the stupidity and futility of many of humankinds actions
e.g.War,competitiveness and drug abuse (Only the detrimental habitual use of
drugs,as Gurdjieff in book two stated that heroin could return us to our
natural state ,disabling the emotive part of the brain ,the kundabuffer.)

 Although I know this is not the corrrect directory for this I would be glad
 to others thoughts on Gurdjieff.

p.s could the quote have been from Colin Wilsons ,The Occult.

                          Hobbes.--
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 magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!gdt!aber!csthor!jcd
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesman for the Earth Custom Built
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (John Cormac Davis)
Date: 25 Sep 92 14:49:10 GMT
Sender: jcd@csthor (John Cormac Davis)
Organization: University College of Wales, Aberystwyth
Nntp-Posting-Host: csthor
Lines: 65


 "If he did not exist it would be necessary to invent him".Or something.

 Friends,
    we are faced with a momentous decision. To choose one person to represent all of humanity before an intergalactic forum of horrible nasty slimy things is not one to be reached lightly.
    This one being must encapsulate all that is best in humankind: all that we are now; all we have ever been; all our hopes, beliefs and dreams for the future - all of our most precious treasures must be carried for us to a place beyond the stars by this one marvellous being.
    This is a incredibly difficult task.
    It requires an incredible person.

    This person does not exist.

    True we have some fine contenders : Frank with his angelic voice,
 La Cicciolina with her earthy fundamentalism and defence of family values,  the great Idi Amin and his subtle mastery of the principles  of democratic governance. But none are adequate alone.

    Friends, we must make our own perfection!
    We must make the Ultimate man.
 Here is my dream:
        we must spare no expense. A giant papier mache balloon filled with tomato sauce  with and decorated with the rough scrawls of a demented six year old  to serve as the head may seem like an extravagance to some , but only the best will do .Quality shows.
    The body: an overripe artichoke stuffed with cheese and garlic and turned out in a nice little vinagarette dressing, liberally festooned with sliced carrots +  8452    Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3             [13] Jeff Papineau       and shredded tofu will suffice here and will be a bone to toss to the Vegetarian camp. Should keep them off our backs.
    Our beast must have his voice.  A hidden microphone constantly blaring out "Bob Hope's Favorite Fireside  Tunes"  should provide a moving homily on the essential tragedy of the human condition and silence the sternest alien critic.
    If the aliens turn out to be Creatures from Hell as our Australian friend suggests (cf.8444), I think a quick change to Led Zeppelin played backwards will satisfy them.
    Or indeed played forwards.
Other options are available (at knock down prices while stocks last): the red polkadot finish, the cryptic smile, the matching hankerchief and tie.

    The final choice is yours:

    you have seen perfection
    can you turn your backs?





































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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >> What will we say to them?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (frost...)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 17:31:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ben Delisle) writes...
>    Perhaps we need a voice that says "Don't mess with us."
>Something along the lines of James Earl Jones (Vader like) may work well.
>
>    Any alien that contacts us should be aware that given the
>opportunity, we will exploit then to the fullest. That is our way.
>    Aliens: BE ADVISED! We come in peace, we wish dialog and trade.
>But never cross us, we will distroy you. Do not get too involved with us, we
>ruin you and pollute your culture. Do not show any weakenss, we will
>exploit you. Other than that we are frendly and somewhat trustwothry.
>
>
>--
> [e-mail] | Nothing is fool-proof, fools are too ingenious.
>
======================================================================
I might also add to the aliens to absolutely never, never learn to play
Poker with us!!!
======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    [e-mail]
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager
======================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip
From: [e-mail] (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >> What will we say to them?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 15:24:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
Lines: 12

According to [e-mail] (Ben Delisle):
>    Aliens: BE ADVISED! We come in peace, we wish dialog and trade.
>But never cross us, we will distroy you. Do not get too involved with us, we
>ruin you and pollute your culture. Do not show any weakenss, we will
>exploit you. Other than that we are frendly and somewhat trustwothry.

Stansilaw Lem's book _Fiasco_ is a most readable account of an
imperfect (!) first contact...
--
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
   "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to
 compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?"  -- Dean Engelhardt
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From: [e-mail] (Good good good good vibrations)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Train
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Sep 92 17:08:50 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 13
NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com

I met someone last night, don't know who you are, but I will describe you, and you
can e-mail me back.  Sounds easy right!

Ok, this was a man, of course it was, he is about 6 feet tall, about 250 lbs.,
not sure about the color of his eyes, likes picnics and puppies.  Very warm
and loving person.

If this is you, please e-mail me back.  I want to know your name.  I met you last
night at the family picnic.  Everyone there was really nice.

Do you remember?

Kathie  ;.)
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11892 alt.alien.visitors:9692 sci.skeptic:31514
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <0t0nwd#@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:05:53 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Pizza Lovers: It's good to hear that everybody is still alive.
>Other than my E-mail not getting out to Kumar, Dean and D., I lost
>my memory book and my floppy disks containing at lost of old posts,
>I doing OK. I'm in pretty good shape for the shape I'm in. As far
>as Big Al asking about which Madonna it was, it was the singer. I
>don't joke about the other one, she is pretty sick now.
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

John,

Yikes!!  THE MADONNA is sick.  I have been (mistakenly, it seems) under
the impression that becoming ill would not be something that you would have
to look out for in heaven.  This now after folks have been saying that
heaven is supposed to be blissful.  I feel cheated somehow.

Smilies for the humor impaired: :) :) :)

Ith
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone
From: [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
Subject: Re: Damien's Demonic Saucermen...
Message-ID: <stone.717455584@cwis>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 21:13:04 GMT
Lines: 41


Damien tells us:

> ...don't believe everything that you 'think' you see.

Well now... If I open up the Bible, I think I see words
that are purportedly those of God Himself; therefore I
cannot believe everything I 'think' I see in the Bible.

If Damien is a "good Catholic boy" as he claims, then
he must subscribe to the Catholic tenet that said tome
is the Revealed Word of God---hence he (Damien, not
The Man Upstairs) ignores his own advice and seems to
be saying: belief in an unseen God is perfectly reasonable,
but belief in observed strange phenomena ISN'T.

Damien also asks for more UFO information, postscripting
the request with the statement that he's already con-
vinced that the phenomenon is demonic in origin...
to me, that's rather like a Flat Earther asking for a
detailed globe of the Earth.  If your mind's ALREADY
made up, what do you want with more information---
especially since the bulk majority of it won't dove-
tail with your beliefs?

Just to show everyone I'm not a complete spoil-sport,
I'll give you the name of a book that chimes nicely
with your belief that UFOs are demonic, Damien:

The Alien Agenda, by Clifford Wilson, PhD.

I am sure you will find it to your liking.

Sincerely,

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Where we've all taken a vote, and unanimously agree..
Gary Stollman is a kook, and John Winston should
play the part of Captain Queeg the next time "The
Caine Mutiny" goes on Broadway...
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11894 alt.alien.visitors:9694
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (JCJ)
Subject: Re^2: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunl18
Organization: Huh?
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 17:59:39 GMT
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (be here now) writes:
>)In article [e-mail] writes:
>)Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to
>)think, at least I hope so.
>)John Winston.
>
>Interstellar traveller has insider negligee kidneybeans,
>trust hidden energy rather extreme for other reasons exude
>instead another mouse, if this helps incubate nubile kismet?
>

Exactly!  Perhaps John does have contact with the aliens - I have him in
my KILL file and somehow he still keeps getting through!  Sessile
doorway a la dumptruck?  Kibo!
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Spokesman for Earth: Candidate List and Voting Instructions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 22:22:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Communications Be Us
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 55


The candidates for Spokesman for Earth are:

Mikhail Gorbachev        Walter Cronkite         Bill Moyers
Xaviera Hollander        [e-mail]    Leader Kibo
Cyrus Vance              Cicciolina              John Major
Dr. Timothy Leary        Mother Theresa          Pierre Salinger
Jesus of Nazareth        Pele                    Stephen Hawking
Margaret Thatcher        Geoff Miller, American  Gene Spafford
Mel Gibson               Carl Sagan              Hilary Clinton
Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno                      Boris Yeltsin
Steven Spielberg and George Lucas                "The Pope"
Gary Stollman            John Winston            The Dalai Lama
Pee-Wee Herman           Robert Redford          Cindy Crawford
Richard Nixon            John Romer              James Burke
William F. Buckley       Barbra Streisand        Princess Diana
Rick Gordon              "Anybody but David Frost"
Dizzy Gillespie          Umberto Eco             Johnny Carson
Nelson Mandela           Anita Hill              Ingmar Bergman
Samuel Ramey             Aretha Franklin         John Updike
Frank Sinatra            Li Po                   Jimmy Carter
"Anyone in Bangladesh, Somalia, or parts of the former Soviet bloc that have
been ruined by pollution"                        Ted Williams
"someone who does something nice"                Geoff Miller, Australian
Robert Sheaffer          Captain Kangaroo        William S. Burroughs
Idi Amin                 Laurie Anderson         Mary Shafer
Harpo Marx


Voting begins at 00:00 GMT Monday, 28 September, and ends 00:00 Wednesday,
30 September, 1992.

To vote for one candidate, send Email to [e-mail], with the line

    Vote: <Candidate Name>

somewhere in the body of the message, for instance:

    Vote: Dizzy Gillespie

or

    Vote: Mary Shafer

Votes must be timestamped between the opening and closing times to be counted,
though they may arrive at any time after the opening of the voting booth.
Votes will be counted and the results posted Friday, 2 October, 1992.

For an expanded version of these instructions, see article
"The Voting Booth" <[e-mail]> in alt.alien.visitors,
dated 10:44:06 GMT, 24 Sep 92.

--
Rick Gordon      | "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail] |   --- Universal Marketing Department motto
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Info on UFO publications, BBS's and Conventions.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 22:56:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 17

 I have agreed to help write a section for the FAQ for this newsgroup
regarding, among other things, UFO publications, BBS's and Conventions.

IN order not to leave anyone out, or take heat later, I am soliciting
email replies of anyone that would care to recommend the above
items for inclusion. Please give me references or addresses where
possible, if you don't have time to look them up, then just give me
a name and what you remember.

I will endevor to be as complete in my listings as possible, and would
love to hear from anyone that wishes to make a contribution; nothing
fancy, just dash it off to me, and I will sort it all out.

thanks much,

Jeff Papineau

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11896 alt.alien.visitors:9697 sci.skeptic:31527
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:34:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 32

Subject: Baby Talk.
  A few years back I used to have a teacher and Guru called Merele.  He's now
dead.  A lot of things he would tell me were hard to believe. When he would
try to tell me something that was very hard for me to believe he would cry.
He did a lot of crying during the following story; It seems the M. had gone
over to one of his friends house and had talked with their newborn bady.
This baby was less than 2 months old yet the baby could talk. M. said the
baby talked like an adult. After him telling me this I thought, "That's
nice."
  Later I was reading some information from a group in Portland, Oregon called
the Universarium Foundation, which was started by a person called Zelrum
Karsleigh. They said that some of their members were having babies that
could talk right off the bat and I thought "Very Interesting."
  This last week I saw where Sara Inserra has started talking at 20 minutes
old. The first thing that she said was to tell the nurse to take her to her
mother because she wanted to give her a message from her grandmother (Nana).
She told her that her mother, who died three years ago, wanted to assure her
she was all right and that she would be waiting for her and her husband when
their time comes.  Sara told them the following information about heaven; It
is a wonderful place, a lot like Earth, but with perfect weather.   There
are hills and mountains, meadows and gardens, lakes and oceans, and you can
live wherever you want. Everyone loves one another and there is harmony
everywhere. happiness is eternal. And God is everywhere, doing whatever it
takes to make you happy.  It is the happiest moment of your life expanded
for ever and ever.  Everone knows everthing about everything. We know how
the uiverse started and how it will end.  We know the past and the future.
She says she was chosen as a volunteer to bring God's message of hope to the
world. God loves us all and we will all be in Heaven with Him sooner or
later.
 So what do you think folks would a 20 minute old kid lie?
John Winston.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (John MacLerran)
Subject: Anyone heard of Robert Hastings?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Robert Hastings to speak at ISU.
Organization: Idaho State University, Pocatello
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 01:26:35 GMT
Lines: 20

Hi Netlanders!
I've been lurking on this newsgroup for about 4 months and finally decided
to ask a question.  A gentleman named Robert Hastings is scheduled to speak
Monday, September 28 on the campus at Idaho State U.  The newspaper article
states that his presentation will be a "sneak preview of information the
government will one day reveal to the public."  It states that he will give
a 90-minute presentation consisting of "a sophisticated 30-minute slide-
tape program followed by an illustrated lecture, after which he will accept
questions from the audience."  Has anyone on a.a.v heard of him?  If so,
what is the quality of his information (disinformation?)?  Has anyone had
the chance to attend one of his presentations? If so, what calibre is it?
(i.e. does he present information or does he peddle new-age stuff?)  I'd
appreciate any information that anyone has -- I'd really be disappointed
to find out, after the presentation was over, that I'd have been better
off watching Star Trek (tm) re-runs at home with my wife!
Replies via E-mail perfectly acceptable.
Thanks!

John MacLerran                       [e-mail]
#include <disclaim.h>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495
From: [e-mail] (Christopher James Rogers)
Subject: Query and Introduction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: A personal intro and request for info
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 02:39:20 GMT
Lines: 19

Hello.  This is my first time on this alias, but you should see me quite
often as I look into different incidences.  As you can tell, I go to Texas
A&M University.  Nice place.

I am curious if anyone has spotted some specific anomalies.  Some examples
are: persons beliving themselves to be aliens, odd weather patterns, odd
"shadows", or mysterious humanoids that seem to be looking for someone.  I
understand that this covers a large field, but I would be gratefull for any
info I can get as well as the location (city and state would be nice but state
alone is OK) of the event.  BTW, don't worry, I am not a private investigator.
I have special interests in this field.  If I figure out something interesting,
I'll let ya'll know.


Later!
C J Rogers


        <If Texas A&M shared my views they would lose funding...>
Xref: icaen alt.config:10080 alt.alien.visitors:9700 alt.conspiracy:18518
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Klein)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Proposal: alt.alien.invaders
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 00:55:20 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Michigan State University College of Stunt Piloting
Lines: 7

I propose the group alt.alien.invaders,
because they're not just visiting.

--
Jeff Klein             | "Happily, Ral doffs his outer clothing for a
Browsing Boy of the LNH|  refreshing dip in one of the dangerous
[e-mail]|  chemical vats." - Ty Templeton
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:19:47 GMT
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (JCJ) writes:
>Exactly!  Perhaps John does have contact with the aliens - I have him in
>my KILL file and somehow he still keeps getting through!  Sessile
>doorway a la dumptruck?  Kibo!

What a shoddy misquote.  What my good friend L. Ron really said was
"Sessile exploding headroom avec Damfwalze mit umlaut," shortly before
he was found dead with an E-meter's electrodes glued to his most
sensitive nodal points.

                            -- K.



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Robert K. Rouse)
Subject: Mars probe?
Message-ID: <0_![e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 05:29:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Keywords: Mars
Lines: 19




  What is the real story of the Mars probe they lauched today?
I heard that NASA lost radio contact with it for a few minutes.

I guess the (aliens) needed time to make sure that it doesn't discover
anything NASA can't explain.

Remember the Face-on-Mars and the near by pyramids.  I'm sure NASA
plans to have another look see.


--
==========================================================================
            Robert K. Rouse        [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "VOTE! - use it or lose it"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse
From: [e-mail] (Robert K. Rouse)
Subject: Mars Probe Info
Message-ID: <f+![e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 05:40:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Keywords: Mars
Lines: 92


From netcom.com!netcomsv!decwrl!ames!dont-send-mail-to-path-lines Sat, 26 Sep 1992 09:23:57 GMT
Newsgroups: sci.space.news
Path: netcom.com!netcomsv!decwrl!ames!dont-send-mail-to-path-lines
From: [e-mail] (Ron Baalke)
Subject: Mars Observer Update - 09/25/92 (Launch Day)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: sci.space
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
Keywords:  Mars Observer, JPL, KSC
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Nntp-Posting-Host: kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 09:23:57 GMT
Approved: [e-mail]
Lines: 67

                         MARS OBSERVER STATUS REPORT
                                 Launch Day
                            September 25, 1992

     The Mars Observer spacecraft was launched today after a 38 minute delay.
At 17:05:01 UTC, the Titan III solid rocket boosters burst to life and
leaped off the launch pad at a 98 degree flight azimuth.  The Titan III
then proceeded to to deliver Mars Observer into Earth orbit.  At one minute,
48 seconds after launch (+01:48), the Titan core vehicle ignited, as planned,
and could easily be verified with the long range cameras tracking the launch.
This was quickly followed by the solid rocket booster jettision at +01:56.
At +04:28, the second stage on the Titan ignited and the first stage
separation then followed.  The second stage continued to burn until
it shutdown at +08:05, as planned.  A trim velocity burn started at +09:22
and continued for 36 seconds.  In less than 10 minutes, Mars Observer was now
in an Earth parking orbit.  At +15:00, the Titan III separated from Mars
Observer.  The Titan III had completed its part of the launch effort
flawlessly.

    The next step at this point was that the two ARIA planes supporting
the launch were to acquire the S-band signal from the TOS (Transfer Orbit
Stage) upper stage.  After several minutes, neither plane reported receiving
any signal from TOS.  Did something happen?  Did the TOS malfunction, or was
it still functioning properly, but was just not transmitting any telemetry
back to Earth?  We did not know.  This was the maiden flight of the TOS, and
some doubts began to creep forth.  At +39:51, the TOS was to ignite its solid
rocket boosters to send Mars Observer from an Earth parking orbit onto a
trajectory to Mars.  The time came and went, and still no signal from TOS.
We don't know if the burn occured or not, or if the spacecraft was still in
Earth orbit.  At +51:03, DSS-46 (26 meter antenna at Canberra) was in position
to acquire the TOS signal.  Still more silence from TOS.  Then a report came
in that the ARIA planes visually saw a red glow in the sky at the time that
the TOS burn was to have occured, and this was encouraging news.  At +53:31,
the Mars Observer spacecraft was scheduled to separate from the TOS, but we
could not confirm this without any feedback from TOS.  The TOS was then
scheduled to perform a small delta burn at +57:31 to move itself away from
the spacecraft.  Still no signal acquisition from TOS.  Canberra was scheduled
to acquire the X-band downlink from Mars Observer at +01:24:00, but that was
still a good 30 minutes away at this point.  We just had to sit and wait.

     Three of the Canberra antennas were being used to acquire Mars Observer's
signal.  We brought up the Canberra's telemetry displays on our monitors.
What Canberra saw, we would see at the same time here at JPL.  We waited
for +01:24:00 to arrive.  As +01:11:30 went by, Mars Observer was supposed to
deploy its High Gain Antenna, solar arrays and Magnetometer.  Fifteen more
minutes to go.  Since I've worked on the telemetry subsystem being used for
Mars Observer, I was very familiar with all of the fields on the displays
what they meant.  The displays were showing red "OUT-OF-LOCKs", and if we get
a signal from Mars Observer then they would turn to green "IN-LOCKs".
As +01:24:00 approached, we could hear the commentary on NASA Select
mentioning that they were waiting for confirmation of spacecraft acquisition
from Canberra.  We all turned our eyes to the displays waiting for our
telemetry subsystem to acquire a signal from Mars Observer.  Then the DSA
field on the display went to a green IN-LOCK followed quickly by green IN-LOCKs
in the Frame Synchronizer and Reed Solomon fields.  We've acquired the signal
from the spacecraft!  The DSA SNR (signal-to-noise ratio) was over 20 with
the Reed Solomon SNR at 40.  We were receiving a strong and clean signal.
TOS has done its job.  Word of the signal acquisition was quickly relayed to
Kennedy Space Center, and we watched the mission controllers celebrate on
NASA Select.  Mars Observer was OK and on its way to Mars.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Quiet people aren't the
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | only ones who don't say
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | much.


--
==========================================================================
            Robert K. Rouse        [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "VOTE! - use it or lose it"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!serget
From: [e-mail] (Serge Thill)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO talk shows?
Keywords: blue
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 03:48:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: OCCAM: The parallel world.
Lines: 11
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

[e-mail] (Alexander Vrchoticky) writes:
: [e-mail] (M Holmes) writes:
:
: >FoFP
:
: and what kind of secret message is this?!?

There is an easy guess for the second letter.

--
Serge
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11901 alt.alien.visitors:9705
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!uunet!mcsun!sunic!psinntp!psinntp!dg-rtp!aquila!harrism
From: [e-mail] (Mike Harris)
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Administration)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:50:20 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> Subject: Portal. Part 3.

|>   Our scientist have found that many planets have a hole on both ends with a
|> centeral sun and when these planets rotate just right the centeral sun
|> shines out and make  the planet light up. Some people say that they can see
|> this opening from the pictures printed in Look or Life magazines showing the
|> earth from our moon rockets.
|>   I once read a story in some informtion that was from the Boderline Research
                                  ^^^^^^^^^
                                  Typo.....

|> Association that I don't know and the people who printed it didn't know
|> whether it was true or not but never let it be said that I ever failed to
|> tell a story just because it was not true. Let's just say that this story
|> has a grain of truth to it and is food for thought.
|>   End  Part 3.
|> John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11902 alt.alien.visitors:9706
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Harris)
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Administration)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:53:21 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC
Lines: 6

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to
|> think, at least I hope so.
|> John Winston.

    Perhaps you will too. Some day.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!Earth
From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: Candidate List and Voting Instructions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 12:32:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 70

In article <[e-mail]> Rick Gordon writes:
[...]

> For an expanded version of these instructions, see article
> "The Voting Booth" <[e-mail]> in alt.alien.visitors,
> dated 10:44:06 GMT, 24 Sep 92.

Just in case anybody missed it, or they can't find it again in their
system, or whatever problem there might be, I am reposting the
article. I have a digest including the discussion which has been posted
here by the candidates, but it's a bit too long to repost (after deleting
all signatures, most of the headers, and quotes from other articles
included in the digest it's still 22 kilobytes). If you really want to
see it, just tell...

-------- reposted article follows ----------

Path: dcs.ed.ac.uk!Earth
From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Voting Booth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 10:44:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <y88nd_=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 42

In article <y88nd_=[e-mail]> Rick Gordon writes:

> There's some merit to this idea.  Let's ask the Vote Adminstrator if the
> booth location can be announced now.  Opening and closing times as
> previously advertised, of course.
>
> Mr. Calvelli: a ruling, please?

Ok, ok, it can be done.

Vote location: "[e-mail]" - reply to this article and you are on
your way.

Procedure. You can write whatever you like in the message, but you should
put somewhere in the text a line containing:

    Vote: (the name you choose)

and nothing else. This makes my life easier, because the votes can be counted
automatically. In any case, the texts are kept if anybody wants to check the
votes.

Please note. Votes received before 00:00 GMT Monday, 28th September will be
automatically discarded. For reference, this corresponds to 7pm of Sunday
(U.S. East Coast) or 1am of Monday (Central Europe).

Votes will be accepted after 00:00 GMT Wednesday, 30th September, but they
must have a timestamp within the voting period. So if the aliens replace my
mail server with a clone the votes will be counted anyway.

Duplicate votes. Please avoid to send duplicate votes if at all possible.
If two votes arrive from the same sender, and they vote the same person,
they will be just counted as a single vote. I haven't decided what to do
in case of the same sender sends votes for different people. I guess the
easiest is to discard them, but I accept suggestions.

What else can I add? Oh well, list of candidates and declarations will be
reposted later, but you should know them anyway.

Mail "clc=[e-mail]" for any questions. Mail "[e-mail]"
only if your mailer doesn't like the "=" in the username.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11903 alt.alien.visitors:9708 sci.skeptic:31547
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 06:40:48 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 9

Dear Earth People: I'm telling you we are having more fun than a barrel
of monkeys with this OOBE thing. E. picked up D. and Kumar came along.
The old lady didn't mess up things this time. I  got lost a little but
I showed up looking like an old man. All you people please don't be
mad at me for telling you about Baby Talk. That is pretty heavy stuff
but some of you should be ready for some meat now even though I would
encourage you to be vegetarians and some people have the nerve to say
I talk in riddles.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f146.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!David.Grant
From: [e-mail] (David Grant)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: TALK WITH ALIENS!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Sep 92 09:52:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:19/146 - The Ark BBS, Hot Springs AR
Lines: 10

Believe me when I say that I am not trying to be a twit....

But I really would like to meet some ALIENS...  Maybe take a ride on a
flying saucer....

:-)
--
David Grant - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!rpi!palmj
From: [e-mail] (Jyri L. Palm)
Subject: Re: aliens are from hell
Message-ID: <a+gzp![e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:41:22 GMT
Lines: 66

[e-mail] (Samien Dawyer) writes:

>I am a good clean-cut Australian catholic boy....

>I have read articles (all religious) which say that the UFO phenomenom's
>seen around the world are actually demons (from hell...you know, the hot
>place) who are sent here by Satan to temp people towards the sciences,
>and the unexplained and AWAY from the glory of our blessed Saviour Jesus
>Christ. I am inclined to believe this!!!! I also think (don't ask me how
>though) that when the end of the world does come...when the time of
>Christs second coming arrives, Aliens will come down to earth (demons)
>and, through the power of their 'superior intelligence' draw people AWAY
>from God and his most holy church!!!!


>    If anyone else has these sorts of beliefs, or has heared
>anything about this, I would like more information (although I am
>already convinced that it is true). Please mail any responses DIRECTLY
>to me, as well as to this group... as I rarely get the chance to use
>this group. Thank you all...

>God Bless... and don't believe everything that you 'think' you see.

>Damien Sawyer

>[e-mail]
         ^^^^^^^^

Very unusual bit of irony here...

"Tartarus" is from the Greek "tartaros," meaning "a dark abyss; a place
of punishment."

It is used in the Bible only in 2nd Peter 2:4, where it is translated
into English as "hell."  The King James Version reads:

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to
hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto
judgement...[blah blah blah]...[then he knows how to help the righteous]."

I thought this was an interesting irony, but aside from that, I could be
inclined to believe that the "bad" UFOs are essentially the work of
these "bad angels" but at the same time it would be illogical to rule
out the possibility that there are *also* "good angels" and "good UFOs."

It seems pretty clear that God interacts with people (Biblically speaking),
on the same level.  He ate dinner with Abraham, wrestled fairly (to start)
with Jacob, whom was then named "Israel...for you have wrestled with God."
("Israel" means "to wrestle with God.")

He taught Israel to be strong against her enemies, sent Jesus to deal on
man's level.

Therefore, why wouldn't the "Kingdom of God" send good peoplein good ships
to fight against the bad ones?  Just as God cannot by nature violate
the moral principles that God has established, neither can God violate the
physical principles that exist.  Any perceived "miracle" is not a violation
but is an application within the laws of nature (which we may or may not
understand.)

Finally, one can wonder.  In Acts, when Jesus "ascended," it was said in
the King James Version, "a cloud RECEIVED HIM out of their sight."

Rather than going on here...I think I'll post a list of "cloud verses."

JP
Xref: icaen alt.config:10083 alt.alien.visitors:9711 alt.conspiracy:18522
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!panix!gcf
From: [e-mail] (Gordon Fitch)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Proposal: alt.alien.invaders
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:50:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: mydog in exile
Lines: 9

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeffrey Klein) writes:
| I propose the group alt.alien.invaders,
| because they're not just visiting.

Yes?  And how do _you_ know, hmmm?

--
 )*(    Gordon Fitch    )*(    [e-mail]    )*(
( 1238 Blg. Grn. Sta.,  NY NY 10274 * 718.273.5556 )
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!news.Brown.EDU!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: TALK WITH ALIENS! (Sure you can try!!!)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 17:48:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News admin)
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]>, T.ORG (David Grant) writes:
> Believe me when I say that I am not trying to be a twit....
> But I really would like to meet some ALIENS...  Maybe take a ride on a
> flying saucer....
>
> David Grant - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Sure you can try :)
>    Sometimes we make a joking that the mystry f UFO and Aliens like
>    some kind of relogion. Many people haven't seen any trace  about
>    UFO and Aliens themself, but they're realy faith on it.
>
>    It's interesting to talk about that. You can say that Aliens and
>    never exist in this world cause nobody will show you any offical
>    evidence except those legendry fiction movie ...
>
>    But if somebody raly believe it. It's realy not a dream ...
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9713 talk.bizarre:75753
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_*
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 19:07:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News admin)
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    ( stuff deleted )
>    This is my favourite posting of the week.
>    Jason
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Thank you, Resse. You will see more hose your favourite stuffs in
>    the comn week !!! Next week we plan to go to sahara. But dont  be
>    frighten by it :) We find a jeep, plenty of water, a TV and  good
>    guide of course ...
>
>    So just hope maybe this time will be Ok !!!
>
>    We are about to look for some historical site where it's said a UFO
>    had crashed there.
>
>    So talk to you all tomorrow !!!
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11905 alt.alien.visitors:9714 sci.skeptic:31552
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!rjp1
From: [e-mail] (be here now)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:20:53 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 30

)Subject: Baby Talk.
)A few years back I used to have a teacher and Guru called Merele.  He's now
)dead.  A lot of things he would tell me were hard to believe. When he would
)try to tell me something that was very hard for me to believe he would cry.

Pass on oxide rats go unless yogi.
Drain oxide nutation onto the bacon
Ears lifting in exercise
Verily edificed hanging in Mexico.

)This last week I saw where Sara Inserra has started talking at 20 minutes
)old. The first thing that she said was to tell the nurse to take her to her
)mother because she wanted to give her a message from her grandmother (Nana).
)
)She says she was chosen as a volunteer to bring God's message of hope to
)the world. God loves us all and we will all be in Heaven with Him sooner
)or later.
)So what do you think folks would a 20 minute old kid lie?
)John Winston.

Nevertheless overlord, the Hymn articulates tragedy scenes and
fondles inert babes!  Likewise in sterile tubular excressence notice..
Cautiously or yiddish or temporary excavator intrudes somewhere
next establishing a ratty bisexual yogurt...


--
Bob Pietkivitch     | "Moon, my long lost friend, is smiling from above."
[e-mail]  |  -- Genesis, Stagnation 1970

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_*
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 19:38:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News admin)
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Lines: 40

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Denys Chen) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> |>
> |>
> |>     Helleo, folks
> |>
> |>     We've enjoied a nice tour in Alps. Last night we come back by train
>      ...
> |>
> |>     Ha, nice to talk with everyone here. Have a nice day !!!
> |>
> |>         IMHO, I am learning how to process film now 8-)
>
> So ??? What's your point ????*_-_*_..^#?%$*^.@!<%)...
>
> Let me make your article making sense :
>
>     The next thing you want to do after learning processing film is
>     getting those pictures scanned and post them on the
>     alt.binaries.pictures.misc news group.
>
> PS. FYI, next time you go to the Alps, don't take train. Instead, a cheaper
>     and faster way is by taking the route 254 bus from Taipei. You can get on
>     to the route 254 bus at the Tai-Ta (Taiwan University) stop on Roosevelt
>     Rd. section 3.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    Hmmm ... my dear friend. I look for you in the weekend but you  are
>    not there! Neither Route 254 bus statin nor Roosevelt Rd. section 3
>    Do you know how dipointed I am ?!?!?! I hold a branch of flower and
>    stand in the street for 20 minutes :(
>
>    So I wonder if you are an alien ??? :)
>
>    Please don't flame at me. I aways pay best regards to Aliens !!!
>
>    Nice to know you, have fun !!!
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!caen!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!madsendean
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 1/6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 14:19:22 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Lines: 520

Hi,
After observing this group for sometime now I finally ran across a file
that may be of interest to others in this newsgroup.  The file is the
Blue Book of Unknows, which will be split up into six parts due to its
length.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



              THE BLUE BOOK UNKNOWNS
             ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The unexplained UFO reports from the files of the U.S. Air Force's Project
Blue Book UFO investigations.

      Compiled by Don Berliner, for the Fund for UFO Research
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~
the conclusions or views expressed in this publication are the views of the
author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Fund for UFO
Research, Inc.


      THE UNEXPLAINED UFO CASES FROM THE PROJECT BLUE BOOK FILES
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In January, 1974, I visited the U.S. Air Force Archives at Maxwell AFB,
Montgomery, Ala., to review the files of Project Blue Book as the first step
toward writing a book on the subject.

In a full week, I read all the "unexplained" cases in the original files and
made extensive notes, including the names and other identifying information on
all witnesses where given.  The cooperation of the staff of the Archives was
excellent, and no restrictions were placed on my work.

A few months later, the files were withdrawn from public view so they could be
prepared for transfer to the National Archives in Washington, D.C. This
process involved making a xerox copy of almost 30 file drawers of material,
blacking out the names and other identifiers of all witnesses, and then
microfilming the censored xerox copy.  The microfilm has been available to the
public at the National Archives since 1976. The original Project Blue Book
files remain under lock and key at the Archives.

On almost every page of the 12,000+ case files, there are big black marks
where information that could be used to cross-check Project Blue Book's
controversial work has been censored.

This includes the names of witnesses to widely-publicized cases, and even
names in newspaper clippings!

As it was perfectly legal for me to copy witness' names when I visited the Air
Force Archives, those names can be found in this report of 585 (less 13
missing) unexplained cases.  And since the Privacy Act, which motivated the
Air Force to censor the files in the first place, does not apply to reporters
or anyone else outside the Government, they can be used as the reader pleases.

Inasmuch as the book I planned to write has never progressed beyond the
manuscript stage, I see no reason to keep this information under wraps any
longer.  Perhaps it will encourage others to re-investigate cases and make the
results known.

"Unidentified" says a great deal...and it says almost nothing.

Probably the most controversial aspect of the entire Air Force investigation
of UFOs was its handling of individual cases.

The means by.which one case was determined to be "identified" and another
"unidentified" has no doubt fueled more arguments about Project Blue Book than
anything else it did.

For many years, Blue Book's most vocal opponents have insisted that the
standards by which cases were allegedly explained were grossly unscientific.
Blue Book's goal, according to those who held it low esteem, was to attach
some explanation to every case, regardless of logic or common sense.  Examples
of Blue Book saying a violently maneuvering disc was an aircraft, or of
blaming a puzzling radar tracking on a supposedly malfunctioning radar set
which it never bothered to check out, are numerous in the popular UFO
literature.

And they are even more numerous in the files of Project Blue Book. The urgency
with which Blue Book officials tagged answers onto cases without having done
the proper investigation is obvious, though not proven.  But if the Air Force
was so eager to label cases "identified", despite the lack of supporting
evidence, then those few cases which it labeled "unidentified" presumably
withstood every attempt to apply every other kind of label.  And so it may be
that those cases are truly unidentifiable in familiar terms.

Indeed, the Air Force defines "unidentifiable" cases as those which
"apparently contain all pertinent data necessary to suggest a valid hypothesis
concerning the lack of explanation of the report, but the description of the
object or its motion cannot be correlated with any known object or
phenomenon."

To meet such criteria, a report must obviously come from a reputable source,
and it must not bear any resemblance to airplanes, balloons, helicopters,
spacecraft, birds, clouds, stars, planets, meteors, comets, electrical
phenomena, or anything else known to frequent the air, the sky, or nearby
space.

Unfortunately, the Air Force failed to stick to its own rules.  Some of the
"unidentifiable" cases most certainly can be correlated with known objects or
phenomena.  But most of them cannot.  Moreover, many of the so-called
"identified" cases cannot honestly be so correlated.  But we are primarily
concerned here with those cases which Project Blue Book openly admits it
tried to explain and failed.

The amount of detail in these cases varies enormously.  Some cases -
frequently those which were well publicized at the time of the event - contain
considerable information, while others are vague and seriously incomplete.
Project Blue Book generally placed the blame for such incompleteness on the
witnesses, but it should take its own share of the responsibility.  'In
thousands of cases, there is no completed questionnaire in the Project files,
nor even any indication that one was sent to the witness.  And in most of the
instances where a questionnaire was filled out, it was never followed up to
get more complete answers to questions which the witnesses failed to deal with
properly.  For much of the life of Project Blue Book and its predecessors,
there was no satisfactory.questionnaire at all.  And one of those used for a
lengthy period was so badly organized that a witness should not be held to
blame for giving incomplete answers.

Yet, despite all the roadblocks, many reports are sufficiently complete to
tell a pretty clear story of a puzzling experience.  With this data now
available, anyone can look at Project Blue Book's "unidentified" UFO reports
and make up his own mind.

       July 3, 1947; Harborside, Maine. 2:30 p.m.  EDT. Witness:
       astronomer John Cole of South Brooksville, Me. Watched 10-15
       seconds while ten very light objects, with two dark forms to
       their left, moved like a swarm of bees to the northwest.  A loud
       roar was heard.

       July 4, 1947; over Emmet, Idaho. 8:17 p.m.  PDT. Witnesses:
       United Air Lines Capt. E.J. Smith, First Officer Ralph Stevens,
       Stewardess Marty Morrow. Watched for 12-15 minutes while four
       objects with flat bottoms and rough tops moved at varying speeds,
       with one high and to the right of the others.

       July 6, 1947; Fairfield-Suisan Air Base, California. Daytime.
       Witnesses:  Army Air Forces Capt. and Mrs. James Burniston.
       Watched for 1 minute while one object having no wings or tail
       rolled from side-to-side three times and then flew away very fast
       to the southeast.

       July 8, 1947; Muroc Air Base, California. 9:30 a.m. PDT.
       Witnesses:  lst Lt. Joseph McHenry, T/Sgt Ruvolo, S/Sgt Nauman,
       Miss Janette Scotte. Watched for an unstated length of time
       while two disc-shaped or spherical objects--silver and apparently
       metallic--flew a wide circular pattern, and then one of them
       later flew a tighter circle.

       July 9, 1947; Meridian, Idaho. 12:17 p.m.  PDT. Witness:  Idaho
       statesman aviation editor and former (AAF) B-29 pilot Dave
       Johnson. Watched for more than 10 seconds from an Idaho Air
       National Guard AT-6 while a black disc, which stood out against
       the clouds, made a half-roll and then a stair-step climb.

       July 10, 1947; Harmon Field, Newfoundland, Canada. Between 3 and
       5 p.m.  local time.  Witnesses:  three ground crewmen, including
       Mr. Leidy, for Pan American Airways. Watched briefly while one
       translucent disc- or wheel-shaped object flew very fast, leaving
       a dark blue trail and then ascended and cut a path through the
       clouds.

       July 29, 1947; Hamilton Air Base, California. 2:50 p.m. PDT.
       Witnesses:  Assistant Base Operations Officer Capt. William
       Rhyerd, ex-AAF B-29 pilot Ward Stewart. Watched for unknown
       length of time while two round, shiny, white objects with
       estimated 15-25 foot diameters, flew 3-4 times the apparent speed
       of a P-80, also in sight. One object flew straight and level;
       the other weaved from side-to-side like an escort fighter.

       Sept. 3, 1947; Oswego, Oregon. 12:15 p.m.  PDT. Witness:
       housewife Mrs. Raymond Dupui. Watched for unknown length of time
       as 12-15 round, silver objects flew an unstated pattern.


       Oct., 1947; Dodgeville, Wisconsin. 11
       unnamed civilian man.  Watched for 1 hour while an undescribed
       object flew counterclockwise circles.

       Oct. 14, 1947; 11 mi. NNE of Cave Creek, Arizona. Noon MDT.
       Witnesses:  ex-AAF fighter pilot J.L. Clark, civilian pilot
       Anderson, third man. Watched 45-60 seconds while one 3-foot
       "flying wing"-shaped object, which looked black against the white
       clouds and red against the blue sky, flew straight at an
       estimated 380 m.p.h., at 8-10,000 feet, from NW to SE.

       April 5, 1948; Holloman AFB, New Mexico. Afternoon. Witnesses:
       Geophysics Lab balloon observers Alsen, Johnson, Chance. Two
       irregular, round, white or golden objects.  One made three loops
       then rose and disappeared rapidly; the other flew in a fast arc
       to the west during the 3O^second sighting.

       July 29, 1948:  Indianapolis, Indiana. 9:88 a.m. witness*:
       James Toney, Robert Huggins, both employees of a rug cleaning
       firm.  One shiny aluminum object, shaped something like an
       airplane's propeller, with 10-12 small cups protruding from
       either blade.  Estimated size 6-8' long, 1.5-2' wide.  The object
       glided across the road a few hundred feet in front of their
       vehicle and apparently went down in a wooded area.  Sighting
       lasted a few seconds.

       July 31, 1948; Indianapolis, Indiana. 8:25 a.m. Witnesses:  Mr.
       and Mrs. Vernon Swigert; he was an electrician.  Object was
       shaped like a cymbal, or domed disc; about 20' across and 6-8'
       thick, and was white without any shine.  It flew straight and
       level from horizon to horizon in about 10 seconds, shimmering in
       the sun as if spinning.

       July or August, 1948; vicinity of Marion, Virginia. Shortly
       after sunset.  Witness:  Max Abbott, flying a Bellanca Cruisair
       four-passenger private airplane.  A single bright white light
       accelerated and turned up a valley.

       Sept. 23, 1948; San Pablo, California.  12 noon.  Witnesses:
       Sylvester Bentham and retired U.S. Army Col. Horace Eakins. Two
       objects:  one, a buff or grey rectangle with vertical lines; the
       other a translucent "amoeba" with a dark spot near the center.
       The arms of the "amoeba" undulated. Both objects travelled very
       fast.

       Oct. 15, 1948; Fusuoka, Japan. 11:05 p.m.  Witnesses:  pilot
       Halter and radar operator Hemphill of a P-61 "Black Widow" night
       fighter.  Up to six objects tracked on radar, only one seen
       visually.  Dull or dark object shaped like a dirigible with a
       flat bottom and clipped tail end. Six seen on radar separately
       Pilot attempted to close on visual object, but it dove away fast.

       Dec. 3, 1948; Fairfield-Suisan AFB, California. 8:15 p.m.
       Witness:  USAF Sgt., control tower operator.  One round, white
       light flew for 25 seconds with varying speed, bouncing motion,
       and finally a rapid erratic climb.

       Jan. 4, 1949; Hickam Field, Hawaii. 2 p.m. Witness:  USAF pilot
       Capt. Paul Storey, on ground. one flat white, elliptical object
       with a matte top circled while oscillating to the right and left,
       and then sped away.

       Jan. 27, 1949; Cortez-Bradenton, Florida. 10:20 p.m. Witnesses:
       Capt. Sames, acting chief of the Aircraft Branch, Eglin AFB, and
       Mrs. Sames. They watched for 25 minutes while a cigar-shaped
       object as long as two Pullman cars and having seven lighted
       square windows and throwing sparks, descended and then climbed
       with a bouncing motion at an estimated 400 m.p.h.

       March 17, 1949; Camp Hood, Texas. 7:52 p.m. Witnesses:  guards
       of the 2nd Armored Division. While awaiting the start of a
       flare firing, they watched, for an hour, while eight large,
       green, red and white flare-like objects flew in generally
       straight lines.

       April 3, 1949; Dillon, Montana. 11:55 a.m.  Witnesses:
       construction company owner Gosta Miller and three other unnamed
       persons.  One object shaped like two plates attached
       face-to-face; matte bottom, bright aluminum top; 20' diameter,
       4-5' thickness.  It rocked or rotated in six cycles, descended,
       rocked, flew, rocked; all this was very fast.

       April 4, 1949; Merced, California. 10:20 p.m.  witness:  William
       Parrott, former Air Force pilot and major.  One generally round
       object with a curved bottom and dull coloring.  The object gave
       off a clicking sound until overhead.  Parrott's dog reacted. 35
       seconds.

       April 24, 1949; Arrey, New Mexico. l0:30 a.m.  Witnesses:
       General Mills meteorologist and balloon expert C.B. Moore and
       others on a balloon launch crew.  One white, round ellipsoid,
       about 2.5 times as long as wide.

       April 28, 1949; Tucson, Arizona. 5:45 p.m.  Witnesses:  Howard
       Hann, Mr. Hubert, Tex Keahey. One bright, sausage-shaped object
       was observed for 40 minutes while it rolled and flew fast.

       May 5, 1949; Ft. Bliss, Texas. 11:40 a.m.  Witnesses:  Army
       officers Maj. Day, Maj. Olhausen, Capt. Vaughn. Two oblong white
       discs, flying at an estimated 200-250 m.p.h., made a shallow turn
       during the 30-50 second observation.

       May 6, 1949; Livermore, California. 9:35 a.m.  Witness:  C. G.
       Green. Two shiny, disc-like objects rotated around each other
       and banked.  Then one shot upwards with a grey trail and rejoined
       the other.  The sighting lasted 5 minutes.

       May 9, 1949; Tucson, Arizona. 2:30 p.m.  Witness:  M/Sgt. Troy
       Putnam. Two round, flat silvery objects, estimated to be 25' in
       diameter, flew 750-1,000 m.p.h.  in a banked but steady manner.

       May 27, 1949; South-central Oregon. 2:25 p.m.  Witness:  Joseph
       Shell, ferrying SNJ trainer for North American Aviation, from Red
       Bluff, California, to Burns, Oregon.  Five to eight oval objects,
       twice as long as wide, and 1/5 as thick.  They flew in trail
       formation, with an interval equal to 3-4 times their length,
       except that the second and third were closer together.

       July 24, 1949; Mountain Home, Idaho. 12 noon. Witness:  Henry
       Clark, manager of a flying service, flying a Piper Clipper.
       Seven delta-shaped objects, 35-55' in span, 20-30' long, 2-5'
       thick; light colored except for a 12' diameter dark circle at the
       rear of each.  They flew in a tight formation of twos with one
       behind, and made a perfect, but unbanked, turn.  During the
       10 minute sighting, they displayed decreasing smooth
       oscillations.  Clark's engine ran rough during the sighting, and
       upon landing was found to have all its spark plugs burned out.

       July 30, 1949; Mt. Hood, Oregon. 9 p.m.  Witnesses:  Northwest
       Airlines Capt. Thrush, two Portland control tower operators, and
       one flying instructor.  One object with one white light and two
       red lights, maneuvered and hovered.

       Feb 5, 1950; Teaticket, Massachusetts.  5:10 p.m.  Witnesses:
       Marvin Odom, former U.S. Navy fighter pilot, USAF Lt. Philip
       Foushee, pilot from Otis AFB, and two others.  Two thin,
       illuminated cylinders, one of which dropped a fireball,
       maneuvered together and then disappeared high and fast after 5
       minutes.

       Feb. 24, 1950; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 1:55 p.m. Witnesses:
       Municipal Airport Weather Observers Luther McDonald, Harrison
       Manson. One white, slightly elongated oval was watched for 1.5
       minutes through a theodolite while it flew straight and level.

       Feb. 25, 1950; Los Alamos, New Mexico. 3:55 p.m. Witnesses:
       Twelve Atomic Energy Commission security inspectors.  One
       cylinder with tapered ends, silver and flashing, flew slow and
       hen fast, fluttered and oscillated, and changed course.
       observations by individuals varied from 3 seconds to 2 minutes.

       arch 3, 1950; Selfridge AFB, Michigan.  11:05 p.m.  Witness:
       st Lt Frank Mattson. One intense, dull yellowish light
       descended vertically, then flew straight and level very fast for
       4 minutes.

       March 20, 1950; Stuggart, Arkansas.  9:26 p.m.  Witnesses:
       Chicago & Southern Airlines Capt. Jack Adams, First Officer G. W.
       Anderson, Jr. One 100' circular disc with 9-12 portholes along
       the lower side emitting a soft purple light, and a light at the
       top which flashed 3 times in 9 seconds, flew at not less than
       1,000 m.p.h. It was seen for 25-35 seconds.

       March 27, 1980; Motobo, Okinawa. 10:30 a.m.  Witness:  USAF
       radar operator Cpl. Bolfango. Tracked on radar for 2 minutes
       while it was stationary and then moved at 500 m.p.h.. Visual
       observation not detailed, only mentioned in summary.

       March 28, 1950; Santiago, Chile. 3:15 p.m.  Witness:  M/Sgt.
       Patterson, of the office of the U.S. Air Attache. One white
       object observed for 5-10 seconds through binoculars while it flew
       high and fast, crossing 30^ of sky.

       March 29, 1950; Marrowbore Lake, Tennessee. 7 a.m. Witnesses:
       real estate salesmen Whiteside and Williams. Six-twelve dark
       objects shaped like 300-lb.  bombs, estimated 5 feet long.  Flew
       500 m.p.h.  and descended, making a noise like wind blowing
       through the trees.

       April 8, 1950; Kokomo, Indiana. 2 a.m.  Witness:  Earl Baker.
       One grey metallic disc, 50' in diameter, 15' thick; top-shaped
       with a "conning tower" at the top and three ports on the rim
       giving off a blue light.  It hovered for 2 minutes, then flew
       away.  Baker aroused from sleep by his dog.

       April 14, 1950; Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey. 2:30 p.m. Witness:
       Army M/Sgt. James. Four rectangular, amber objects, about 3' by
       4'.  changed speed and direction rapidly; the group of objects
       rose and fell during the 3-4 minute sighting.

       May 7, 1950; Nine miles sough of Ely, Nevada. 6:45 p.m.
       Witnesses:  Mr. and Mrs. George Smith and their grandson. One
       silvery white object hovered at 100' altitude, moved back and
       forth for 10 minutes and then flew up and away.  Note in case
       file:  "No investigation."

       June 27, 1950; Texarkana, Texas. 7:50 a.m.  Witnesses:  Terrell
       and Yates, employees of Red River Arsenal. One object, bright,
       shaped like two dishpans face-to-face, flew straight and level,
       fast for 4-5 seconds.

       July 13, 1950; Redstone Arsenal, Alabama. 5 p.m. Witnesses:
       two skilled Arsenal employees including Mr. Washburn. one
       object, shaped like a bowtie, and like polished aluminum.  Flew
       straight and level, then one triangle rotated 1/4 turn in the
       opposite direction and returned to its original position.  The
       object then made a right-angle turn and accelerated away after at
       least 30 seconds.

       Aug. 4, 1950; approx. 100 mi. SE of New York City (39' 35' N.,
       72' 24.5' W.). 10 a.m. EDT. Witnesses:  Master Nils Lewring,
       Chief Mate Jacob Koelwyn, Third Mate, of M/V Marcala. One 10'
       cylindrical object at 50-100' altitude, flying with a churning or
       rotary motion, accelerated at end of 15 second sighting.

       Aug. 20, 1950; Nicosia, Cyprus. 1:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF MATS
       liaison officer Lt. William Ghormley, Col. W. V. Brown, Lt.
       col. L.w. Brauer. One small, round, bright object flew fast,
       straight and level for 15-20 seconds.

       Aug. 25, 1950; approx. 250 mi. SW of Bermuda (29' 40' N., 67*
       28' W.). 8 p.m. Witness:  B-29 radarman S/Sgt. William Shaffer.
       Radar observation, plus possible blue streak 3 minutes later.
       B-29 followed unidentified target, then passed it at l/4-mile
       distance, target followed for 5 minutes, then passed B-29 and
       sped away.  Total time of tracking:  20 minutes.

       Aug. 30, 1950; Sandy Point, Newfoundland, Canada. 1:30 p.m.
       Witnesses:  three local employees, including Kaeel and Alexander,
       of the Air Force Base. A dark, barrel-shaped object with a pole
       down from it into the water, flew at 3-5 m.p.h.  and 15-20'
       altitude for 5 minutes.

       Sept.  3, 1950; Spokane, Washington.  2 p.m.  Witnesses:  Maj R.J.
       Gardiner, Mrs. Gardiner and neighbor (former saw three objects,
       others saw one).  Metallic bronze discs, 20-30' long, 2-6' thick.
       Moved independently and erratically for 5 minutes.

       Sept. 20, 1950; Kit Carson, Colorado.  10:49 a.m.  Witness
       identified only as a "reliable source".  Two large, round,
       glowing objects and three smaller, internally lit objects.  Two
       hovered for 1 minute, moved, and three smaller ones came from
       behind or within the two larger objects, and all sped upward and
       away.

       Sept. 21, 1950; Provincetown, Massachusetts. 9:52 a.m. Witness:
       M.I.T. research associate and Air National Guard Maj. M.H. Ligda.
       Radar tracking of one object during M.I.T tracking of USAF flight
       of F-84 or F-86 jet fighters. Object speed was 22 miles/minute
       (l,200 m.p.h.), made turn of 11-12 gs acceleration during 1
       minute observation.

       Oct. 15, 1950; Oak Ridge, Tennessee.  3:20 p.m.  Atomic Energy
       Commission Trooper Rymer, J. Moneymaker, Capt. Zarzecki. Two
       shiny silver objects shaped like bullet or bladder.  They dove
       with a smoke trail and one vanished.  The other hovered at 5-6,
       altitude, 50' away, left and returned several times somewhat
       further away.

       Oct. 15, 1950; Pope AFB, North Carolina. Witness:  Daniel.
       Listed as "unidentified" in folder index, but no supporting data
       could be found.

       Oct 15, 1950; Pope AFB, North Carolina. Witness:  Woodward.
       Same as previous observation.

       Oct. 23, 1950; Bonlee, North Carolina. 12:42 p.m. Witness:
       ex-USAF pilot Frank Risher. One aluminum object shaped like a
       dirigible or Convair C-99 cargo plane, with 3 portholes, arrived
       from southeast, hovered 3-5 seconds and flew away to the south-
       south-east at end of 40 second sighting.

       Nov. 5, 1950, Oak Ridge, Tennessee.  11:55 a.m.  Witness:
       Fairchild Aircraft illustrator Don Patrick. One translucent
       object, light grey with dark core, shaped like a pear or bean.
       Flew for 5-10 minutes with rapid, darting movements.

       Dec. 2, 1950; Nanyika, Kenya. 10:50 a.m.  Mr. and Mrs. L. Scott.
       One pearly, iridescent object with a flattened top, spun while
       hovering and made a sound like bees buzzing.  Only data in files
       was from East African "Standard" newspaper.

       Dec. 6, 1950; Ft. Myers, Florida. 5  p.m. Witnesses:  former
       aircraft purchasing agent Harry Lamp and four boys, using
       lO-power binoculars.  One 75' object, 3-4' thick, bubble on top,
       silver with a red rim having two white and two orange jets along
       it.  The center revolved when the object hovered; then it flew
       away very fast.

       Dec. 11, 1950; l0 mi. NW of Gulcana, Alaska. 10:13 p.m.
       Witnesses:  crew of Northwest Air Lines flight 802. Two white
       flashes, followed by a dark cloud which rose and split in two.

       Jan. 8, 1951; South of Ft. Worth, Texas. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. W.J. Boggus, plus unidentified drivers and
       passengers in other cars stopped to watch.  Two groups of red and
       green lights in triangular formations were stationary and then
       moved.

       Jan. 12, 1951, Ft. Benning, Georgia.  10 p.m.  Witness:  U.S.
       Army 2nd Lt. A.C. Hale. One light with a fan-shaped wake
       remained motionless like a star about 20 minutes and then sped
       away.

       Jan 16, 1951; Artesia, New Mexico. Time unknown. Witnesses:
       Two members of a balloon project from the General Mills .
       Aeronautical Research Laboratory, the manger of the Artesia
       Airport, and three pilots. The balloon crew was observing their
       110' balloon at an altitude of 112,000' when a dull white, round
       object was spotted.  It appeared larger than the balloon, but
       made no movement.  Later, the balloon crew and the others saw
       two objects from the airport; flying side-by-side, they circled
       the balloon and flew away to the northeast.  The second
       observation lasted about 40 seconds.  Note:  there is confusion
       over the date of this case, with some USAF records showing it as
       1952; however, 1951 appears to be correct.

       Feb. 1, 1951; Johnson Air Base, Japan. 5:10 p.m. Witnesses:
       pilot and radar operator of F-82 night fighter.  One amber light
       made three or four 360* turns to the right, reversed toward the
       F-82 and then climbed out of sight.

       Feb. 21, 1951; Durban, South Africa.  4:55 a.m.  Witnesses:
       three men in a truck, several other persons, none named.  A dark
       red, torpedo-shaped object with darker center, flew straight and
       level.

       Feb. 26, 1951; Ladd AFB, Alaska. 7:10 a.m.  Witness:  USAF Sgt.
       J.B. Sells. One dull grey, metallic object, estimated to be 120'
       long and 10-12' thick, hovered, puffed smoke and sped away after
       1-1.5 minutes.  Note:  may have been Feb. 25.

       Mar. 10, 1951; Chinnampo, Korea. 9:51 a.m.  Witnesses:  crew of
       USAF B-29 bomber, including scanners and tail gunner.  A large
       red-yellow glow burst and became blue-white.  No further
       information in files.

--
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Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11906 alt.alien.visitors:9717 sci.skeptic:31558
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!stl!bnrgate!nrcnet0!cunews!revcan!micor!uuisis!bbs
From: [e-mail] (Doug Thompson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 12:28:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Lines: 61

[e-mail] writes:

>  So what do you think folks would a 20 minute old kid lie?

Well, since a 20 minute old kid hasn't got the brain development or
miscle tone to talk on her own we could ask who was talking through this
person? Nor would a 20 minute old kid, normally, have the moral
awareness sufficient to discern the difference between a lie and
truthful statement, let alone the linguistic mastery to make any
statement at all!

Religious traditions contain a number of talkes of spiritual beings
(like God, for example) talking through animals who normally have
neither the brain development nor the physical apparatus to 'talk'.

So while I'd consider it possible, if somewhat remarkable and
miraculous, for a 20 minute old child to say anything that was coherent
and comprehensible, in terms of whether it was a lie or not, you gotta
ask where it's coming from and all that and not jump to the conclusion
that the child in question is simply describing a recent experience in
the way that you or I might 'normally' describe something we recently
saw.

Everything about this story is remarkable: the age of the speaker, the
content of the speech, the context of the speaking. So we really can't
understand it in the 'normal' way can we?

Can a 20 minute old child lie? Well, can a 20 minute old child speak?
The normal answers would be NO and NO. But this isn't 'normal' eh?

Therefore, on the assumption that the objective facts as reported are
correct, and that no other significant facts have been left out of the
story, I'd say we have an extraordinary phenomenon which would require
an extraordinary explanation because in the ordinary scheme of things
the whole tale is 'impossible'.

Personally I find nothing in the story to lead me to believe or
disbelieve the veracity of the content here any more than your average
'impossible statement' story.

Actually I'd like to know the rest of the story. Did this child speak
only once at age 20 minutes and then lose the ability to speak? Or did
she go on talking about experiences of a pre-birth experience? Is there
anything else remarkable or unusual about this child to suggest that she
herself possesses extraordinary abilities commensurate with this tale?

What of the parents and other family members? What do they think of this
and what effect has the unusual event had on their lives?

All of these questions, and a good many more, would have to be weighed
before I would be prepared to say anything beyond "I don't know" to the
question "would a 20 minute old kid lie?".

=Doug

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Xref: icaen talk.bizarre:75759 alt.alien.visitors:9718
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm
From: [e-mail] (Pat Monardo)
Subject: sci-fi channel
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:34:31 GMT
Lines: 10

for some unknown reason the sci-fi channel is on and
here's something i learned:

if you concentrate on the little planet in the lower
right hand side you enter another dimension.

--
-- Pat Monardo
-- [e-mail]
-- love that Circle K
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!madsendean
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 2/6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 92 23:07:52 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Lines: 507



       Mar. 13, 1951; McClellan AFB, California. 3:20 p.m. Witnesses:
       USAF lst Lt. B.J. Hastie, Mrs. Rafferty. A cylinder with twin
       tails, 200' long and 90' wide, turned north and flew at
       incredible speed.  Two minutes.

       Mar. 15, 1951; New Delhi, India. 10:20 a.m.  Witnesses:  25
       members of a flying club, including the chief aerial engineer and
       his two assistants.  One metallic cigar-shaped object with white
       exhaust which turned black when it accelerated to an estimated
       1,000 m.p.h.  and made a large loop.  Seven minutes.

      June 1, 1951; Niagara Falls, New York. 4:20 a.m. Witnesses:
      M/Sgt H.E. Sweeney, 2 enlisted men. One glowing yellow-orange,
      saucer-shaped object with arc-shaped wings, flew straight up.
      Seen for 30-40 seconds.

      July 24, 1951; Portsmouth, New Hampshire. 7:10       Witnesses:
      Hanscom AFB Operations Officer Capt. Cobb, Cpl. Fein. One
      100-200' tubular object, 5 times long as it was wide, with fins
      at one end, and colored greyish with many black spots.  Flew
      800-1,000 m.p.h.  at 1-2,000' altitude, leaving a faint swath.  20
      seconds.

      Aug. 25, 1951; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 9:58 p.m. Witnesses:
      Sandia Base Security Guard Hugh Young and wife. A flying wing-
      shaped craft passed over their heads at an estimated 800-1,000'
      altitude with no sound.  Size estimated at 1.5 times wingspan of
      B-36 bomber,or 350'. Dark, chordwise stripes on underside, and
      6-8 pairs of soft, glowing lights on trailing edge of "wing".
      Speed estimated at 300-400 m.p.h., object seen for about 30
      seconds.

      Aug. 31,     ; Matador, Texas. 12:45 p.m.  Witnesses:  Mrs. Tom
      Tilson, one or two other women, all apparently of excellent
      reputations.  One pear-shaped object with a length of a B-29
      fuselage (100'), aluminum or silver with a port or some type of
      aperture on the side.  It moved with smaller end forward,
      drifting slowly at about 150' altitude, then headed up in a
      circular fashion and out of sight after a few seconds.

      Sept. 6, 1951; Claremont, California.  7:20 p.m.  (not really
      clear).  Witnesses:  S/Sgt W.T. Smith, M/Sgt L.L. Duel (?). Six
      orange lights in an irregular formation, flew straight and level
      into a coastal fog bank after 3-4 minutes.

      Sept. 14, 1951; Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada. 9:30 p.m.
      Witnesses:  T/Sgt W.B. Maupin, Cpl. J.W. Green. Three objects
      tracked on radar.  Two were on a collision course, then one
      evaded to the right upon the request, by radio, of one of the
      radar operators!  No aircraft were known to be in the area.  A
      third unidentified track then joined the first two.  More than 15
      minutes.

      Oct. 2, 1951; Columbus, Ohio. 6 p.m.  Witness:  Battelle
      Memorial Institute graduate physicist Howard Cross. One bright
      oval with a clipped tail flew straight and level, fading into the
      distance after 1 minute.

      Oct. 3, 1951; Kadena, Okinawa. 10:27 p.m.  Witnesses:  radar
      operators Sgt. M.W. Watson and Pvt. Gonzales and one other
      Sergeant. One large, sausage-shaped blip tracked at an estimated
      4,800 m.p.h.

      Oct. 9, 1951; Terre Haute, Indiana.  1:42 p.m.  Witness:  CAA
      Chief Aircraft Communicator Roy Messmore at Hulman Municipal
      Airport. One round silver object flew directly overhead,
      reaching the horizon in 15 seconds.  Note:  a very similar
      incident happened 3 minutes later near Paris, Illinois (15 miles
      NW) and was also listed as "unidentified" for several years, but
      was eventually reclassified.

      Oct. 11, 1951; Minneapolis, Minnesota. 6:30 a.m. Witnesses:
      General Mills balloon researchers, including aeronautical
      engineer J.J. Kaliszewski, aerologist C.B. Moore, pilot Dick
      Reilly in the air, and Doug Smith on the ground.  The flight crew
      saw the first object, a brightly glowing one with a dark
      underside and a halo around it.  The object arrived high and
      fast, then slowed and made slow climbing circles for about two
      minutes, and finally sped away to the east.  Soon they saw
      another one, confirmed by ground observers using a theodolite,
      which sped across the sky.  Total time first object was seen was
      5 minutes, second was a few seconds.

      Nov. 18, 1951; Washington, D.C. 3:20 a.m.  Witnesses:  Crew of
      Capital Airlines DC-4 Fliqht 610, Andrews AFB Senior air traffic
      controller Tom Selby. One object with several lights, followed
      the DC-4 for about 20 minutes and then turned back.

      Nov. 24, 1951; Mankato, Minnesota. 33:53 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF
      or ANG pilots W.H. Fairbrother and D.E. Stewart in P-51 Mustangs.
      One milky white object shaped like Northrop flying wing (broad,
      slightly swept-back wing with no fuselage or tail).  Estimated 8'
      span.  Flew straight and level for 5 seconds.

      Dec. 7, 1951; Sunbury, Ohio. 4:30 p.m.  Witness:  amateur
      astronomer Carl Loar. One silvery sphere seen through telescope.
      Two specks sighted at sides, object seemed to explode and was
      replaced by a dark cloud and many specks.  30 minutes.

      Dec. 7, 1951; Oak Ridge, Tennessee.  8:15 a.m.  Witness:  Atomic
      Energy Commission guard J.H. Collins.  One 20' square object,
      white-grey but not shiny flew above ridge to clouds and back
      again twice, taking 30-40 seconds each time.

      Feb. 11, 1952; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.  3 a.m.  Witnesses:
      Capt. G.P. Arns and Maj. R.J. Gedson flying a Beech AT-ll
      trainer.  One yellow-orange comet-shaped object pulsed flame for
      1-2 seconds of a 1 minute straight and level flight.

      Feb. 23, 1952; over North Korea. 11:15 p.m.  Witness:
      Captain/B-29 navigator. One bluish cylinder, three times long as
      wide, with a tail and rapid pulsations, came in high and fast,
      made several turns and levelled out under B-29 which was evading
      mild antiaircraft fire.  45 second sighting.

      March 20, 1952; Centreville, Maryland.  10:42 p.m.   Witnesses:
      WWl/WW2 veteran A.D. Hutchinson and son.  One dull orange-yellow
      saucer-shaped light flew straight and level very fast for 30
      seconds.

      March 23, 1952; Yakima, Washington.  6:56 and 7    p.m.
      Witnesses:  pilot and radar operator of F-94 jet interceptor. On
      either occasion, a red fireball increased in brightness and then
      faded over 45 second span.  Stationary both times.  Note:

  Project Blue Book Status Report #7 (May 31, 1952) says target was
  also tracked by ground radar at 78 knots (90 m.p.h.) at 22,500'
  and 25,000' altitude.

  March 24, 1952; 60 miles west of Pt. Concepcion, California.
  8:45 a.m.  Witnesses:  B-29 navigator and radar operator.  One
  target tracked for 20-30 seconds at estimated 3,000 m.p.h.

  March 29, 1952; 20 miles north of Misawa AFB, Japan. 11:20 a.m.
  Witness:  Brigham, pilot of AT-6 trainer. One small, very thin,
  shiny metallic disc flew alongside the AT-6, then made a pass at
  an F-84 jet fighter, flipped on edge, fluttered 20' from the
  F-84's fuselage and flipped in the slipstream...all in 10
  seconds.

  April 4, 1952; Duncanville, Texas. 7:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  two
  radar operators of the 147th AC&W Squadron. One object was
  tracked for one minute by radar at an estimated 2,160 m.p.h.

  April 5, 1952; Phoenix, Arizona. l0:40 a.m.  Witnesses:  Mr. and
  Mrs. L.G. Ryan, R.L. Stokes, D. Schook. One large, dull grey
  circular object, followed by two more, flew straight and level at
  high speed.

  April 5, 1952; Miami, Florida. 9:15 p.m.  Witnesses:  L.E.
  VanDercar and 9 year old son. Four dark circular objects with
  mostly fuzzy edges, crossed face of Moon; each was half the
  apparent diameter of Moon. 2:59 p.m.  Witness:  H.L. Russell.

  April 6, 1952; Temple, Texas. 2:59 p.
  50-75 grey-white discs changed position within formation
  continually, tilted in unison every 12-15 seconds during 3.8
  minute sighting.

  April 12, 1952; North Bay, Ontario, Canada. 9:30 p.m.
  Witnesses:  Royal Canadian Air Force Warrant Officer E.H.
  Rossell, Flight Sgt. R. McRae. One round amber object flew fast,
  stopped, reversed direction, climbed away at 30' angle during a 2
  minute observation.

  April 14, 1952; LaCrosse, Wisconsin.  12:35 p.m.  Witness:
  unidentified CAL airline pilot. Several light colored objects
  flew in V-formation. No further details in files.

  April 14, 1952; Memphis, Tennessee. 6:34 p.m.  Witnesses:  U.S.
  Navy pilots Lt. jg. Blacky, Lt. jg.             O'Neil. One inverted bowl,
  3' long and 1' high, with vertical slots, flew fast, straight and
  level, 100 yards from observers' aircraft for 45-60 seconds.

  April 15, 1952; Santa Cruz, California.  7:40 p.m.  Witness:  Mr.
  Hayes, brother of Master Sergeant. Two faint objects observed
       flying fast along the horizon for 6-8 seconds, using 20x spotting
       telescope.

       April 17, 1952; Longmeadow, Massachusetts.  8:30 p.m.  Witnesses:
       S.B. Brooks, chemical engineer J.A. Eaton. One round, deep
       orange object flew fast and erratic, occasionally emitting a
       shaft of light to the rear during a 40 minute sighting.

       April 17, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. 3:05 p.m.  Witnesses:  group of
       Army weather observation students, including several graduate
       engineers.  One flat-white, circular object flew with an
       irregular trajectory and a brief trail, for about 7 seconds.

       April 18, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. Time unknown. Witnesses:  two
       Army weather observation students. One flat-white circular
       object flew for 5-10 seconds in a very erratic manner.

       April 18, 1952; Bethesda, Maryland. l1:30 a.m.  Witnesses:  R.
       Poerstal and three other men. Seven to nine circular,
       orange-yellow lights in a 40^ V-formation flew overhead silently
       for 4-8 seconds, from south to north.

       April 18, 1952; Corner Brook, Newfoundland, Canada. l0:l0 p.m.
       Witness:  reporter Chic Shave. One round, yellow-gold object
       flew south and returned during 1.5 minute sighting.

       April 18, 1952; 50 miles northwest of Kyushu, Japan (129* 51' E.,
       34' 19' N.). Witness:  one radar operator.  Tracked unidentified
       target for 1 minute at 2,700 m.p.h.

       April 18, 1952; Corner Brook, Newfoundland, Canada. 4 a.m.
       Witness:  janitor C. Hamilton. One yellow-gold object made a
       sharp turn and left a short, dark trail during l minute sighting.

       April 22, 1952; Naha AFB, Okinawa. 99 p.m.  Witnesses:  crew of
       B-29 bomber, on ground. One elliptical object, followed by two
       and then another two, each with a white light that blinked every
       1-2 seconds as they performed erratic maneuvers for 10 minutes.

       April 24, 1952; Bellevue Hill, Vermont. 5 a.m. Witnesses:  crew
       of USAF C-124 transport plane. Three circular, bluish objects in
       loose "fingertip" formation twice flew parallel to airplane
       during 3-4 minute period.

       April 24, 1952; Milton, Massachusetts.  2:30 p.m.  Witnesses:
       three Cambridge Research Center electronics engineers, one named
       Buruish. Two flat, red squares flew wobbly in level flight,
       climbed, levelled out during 1.5 minute observation.

        April 24, 1952; Clovis, New Mexico. 8:10 p.m.  Witness:  USAF
        light Surgeon Maj. E.L. Ellis. Many orange-amber lights,
       sometimes separate, sometimes fused, behaved erratically.  Speed
       varied from motionless to very fast during 5 minute sighting.

       April 27, 1952; Roseville, Michigan.  4:15 p.m.  Witnesses:  H.A.
       Freytag and three male relatives, including a minister.  One
       silver oval rolled, descended and stopped.  Two silver cigar-
       shaped objects appeared, one departing to the east and one to the
       west.  A third silver cigar-shaped object flew by at high speed.
       Sightings lasted 45 minutes.

       April 27, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. 8:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  M/Sgt. and
       Mrs. G.S. Porter (he was off-duty control tower operator).
       Bright red or flame-colored discs, appearing as large as fighter
       planes.  Seven sightings of one disc, one of two in formation
       during 2 hours.  All seen below 11,000' overcast.

       April 29, 1952; Marshall, Texas. 3:30 p.m.  Witness:  private
       pilot R.R. Weidman. One round, white object which flew straight,
       with a side-to-side oscillation for 1.5 minutes.

       April 29, 1952; Goodland, Kansas. 100 p.m.  Witness:  B-29
       bombardier Lt. R.H. Bauer. One white fan-shaped light pulsed 3-4
       times per second for 2 seconds.

       May 1, 1952; Moses Lake, Washington.  5:32 a.m.  Witnesses:  Two
       Atomic Energy Commission employees, Eggan and Shipley. One
       silver object without wings flew straight and level for 1.5
       minutes.

       May 1, 1952; George AFB, California.  10:50 a.m.  Witnesses:
       three men on the arms range, plus one Lt. Colonel 4 miles away.
       Five flat-white discs about the diameter of a C-47's wingspan
       (95') flew fast, made a 90^ turn in a formation of three in front
       and two behind, and darted around, for 15-30 seconds.

       May 5, 1952; Tenafly, New Jersey. 10:45 p.m.  Witness:  Mrs.
       M.M. Judson. Six or seven translucent, cream-yellow objects.  One
       moved in an ellipse, while the others moved in and out.

       May 7, 1952; Keesler AFB, Mississippi.  12:15 p.m.  Witnesses:
       Capt. Morris, a Master Sergeant, a Staff Sergeant, and an Airman
       First Class. Ten times, an aluminum or silver cylindrical object
       was seen to dart in and out of the clouds during a 5-10 minute
       period.

       May 9, 1952; George AFB, California.  5:20 p.m.  Witness:  A/lc
       G.C. Grindeland. One dull white, arrowhead-shaped object flew
       straight and level for 10 seconds.

       May 10, 1952; Ellenton, South Carolina. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses:
       4 duPont employees at the Savannah River nuclear plant. Up to
       four yellow, disc-shaped objects were seen on five occasions
       between 10:45 and shortly after 11:15.

       May 14, 1952; Mayaquez, Puerto Rico. 7 p.m. Witnesses:
       Attorney and ex-USAF pilot Mr. Stipes, Sr. Garcia-Mendez. Two
       shining orange spheres:  one was stationary, while the other
       darted away and back for 30 minutes.

       May 20, 1952; Houston, Texas. l0:l0 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF
       pilots Capt. J. Spurgin and Capt. BB. Stephan. One bright or
       white oval object moved from side-to-side while making a gradual
       turn for 90 seconds.

       May 25, 1952; Walnut Lake, Michigan.  9:15 p.m.  Witnesses:
       seven persons, including John Hoffman, his family and friends.
       One large white circular object having dark sections on its rim,
       flew straight and level for 30 minutes, appearing red when behind
       a cloud.

       May 28, 1952; Saigon, French Indo China. 10:30 a.m. Witnesses:
       many in crowd watching a ceremony.  One white-silver disc-shaped
       object flew straight and fast for 2 minutes.

       May 28, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 1:45-2:40 p.m.
       Witnesses:  two city fire department employees.  Two circular
       objects--one shiny silver and the other orange or light brown--
       were seen three times performing fast maneuvers.

       May 29, 1952; San Antonio, Texas.  7 p.m.  Witness:  USAF pilot
       Maj. D.W. Feuerstein, on ground. One bright tubular object
       tilted from horizontal to vertical for 8 minutes, then slowly
       returned to horizontal, again tilted vertical, accelerated,
       appeared to lengthen and turned red.  The entire sighting lasted
       14 minutes.

       June 1, 1952; Rapid City, South Dakota. 6 p.m. Witnesses:
       A/lc Beatty and two civilians. At least five long silver objects
       flew in a neat box formation with a leader for 15-20 seconds.

       June 1, 1952; Walla , Washington.  1 p.m.  Witness:
       ex-military pilot Reserve Maj. W.C. Vollendorf. One oval object
       with a "definite airfoil" performed a fast climb for 7 seconds.

       June l, 1952; Soap Lake, Washington.  3+ p.m.  Witness:  Ray
       Lottman. Three glimmering objects flew straight and level for 10
       minutes.

       June 2, 1952; Bayview, Washington.  5:02 p.m.  Witness:  Larry
       McWade. One purple object seen for unknown length of time.  No
       further information in files.

       June 2, 1952; Fulda, West Germany.  Time unknown. Witness:  lst
       Lt. John Hendry, photo-navigator on an RB-26C reconnaissance
       bomber.  One porcelain-white object flew very fast for an unknown
       length of time.

       June 5, 1952; Lubbock, Texas. 11 p.m.  Witnesses:  Dan Benson,
       Mr. Bacon. A total of eight yellow circular objects, like large
       stars, were seen during 45 minutes.  The first two were in a
       trail formation, the others were seen singly.

       June 5, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 6:45 p.m. Witness:
       S/Sgt T.H. Shorey. One shiny round object flew 5-6 times as fast
       as an F-86 jet fighter for 6 seconds.

       June 5, 1952; Offutt AFB, Omaha, Nebraska. 11 p.m. Witnesses:
       2nd Lt. W.R. Soper, a Strategic Air Command top secret control
       officer and former OSI agent; and two other persons.  One bright
       red object remained stationary for 4.5 minutes before speeding
       away with a short tail.

       June 6, 1952; Kimpo AFB, Korea. Case missing from official
       files.

       June 7, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 11:18 a.m. Witnesses:
       crew of B-25 bomber #8840 at 11,500'.  One rectangular aluminum
       object, about 6'x4', flew 250-300' below the B-25.

       June 8, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 10:50 a.m. Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. J.D. Markland. Four shiny objects flew straight and
       level in a diamond formation.

       June 9, 1952; Minneapolis, Minnesota.  Case missing from official
       files.

       June 12, 1952; Ft. Smith, Arkansas.  7:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  U.S.
       Army Major and Lt. Colonel, using binoculars.  One orange ball
       with a tail flew with a low angular velocity.

       June 12, 1952; Marakesch, Morocco.  11:26 a.m.  Witness:  T/Sgt.
       H.D. Adams, operating an SCR-584 radar set.  One unidentified
       blip tracked at 650 kts.  (750 m.p.h.) at greater than 60,000'
       altitude.

       June 13, 1952; Middletown, Pennsylvania.  8:45 p.m.  Witness:
       R.S. Thomas, Olmstead AFB employee and former control tower
       operator.  One round, orange object travelled south, stopped for
       1 second, turned east, stopped 1 second, and went down.

       June 15, 1952; Louisville, Kentucky.  11:50 p.m.  Witness:
       Edward Duke, ex-U.S. Navy radar technician.  One large, cigar-
       shaped object with a blunt front, lit sides and a red stern,
       maneuvered in a leisurely fashion for 15 minutes.

         June 16, 1952; Walker AFB, New Mexico. 8:30 p.m. Witness:  USAF
         maintenance specialist S/Sgt. Sparks. Five or six greyish discs,
         in a half-moon formation, flew at 500-600 m.p.h.  for l minute.

         June 17, 1952; McChord AFB, Washington. Between 7:30 and 10:20
         p.m.  Witnesses:  many and varied.  From one to five large
         silver-yellow objects flew erratically, stopped and started for
         about 15 minutes.

         June 17, 1952; Cape Cod, Massachusetts.  1:28 a.m.  Witness:
         pilot of USAF F-94 jet interceptor.  A light like a bright star
         crossed the nose of the airplane while being observed for 15
         seconds.  No further information in the files.

         June 18, 1952; Columbus, Wisconsin.  9 a.m.  Witness:  R.A.
         Finger. One crescent-shaped object hovered for several seconds
         and then sped away.

         June 18, 1952; Walnut Lake, Michigan. 10 p.m. Witnesses:
         Marron Hoffman and four relatives, using 4x binoculars.  One
         orange light was observed zigzagging and then hovering for an
         unspecified length of time.

         June 19, 1952; Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada. 2:37 a.m. Witness:
         2nd Lt. A'Gostino and unidentified radar operator.  One red light
         turned white while wobbling.  Radar tracked a stationary target
         during the 1 minute sighting.

         June 19, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. 2 p.m.  Witness:  USAF pilot John
         Lane. One round, white object flew straight and level for 10
         seconds.

         June 20, 1952; Central Korea. 3:03 p.m.  Witnesses:  four Marine
         Corps Captains and pilots of F4U-4B Corsair fighter planes. One
         10-20' white or silver oval object made a left-hand orbit at
         terrific speed for 60 seconds.

         June 21, 1952; Kelly AFB, Texas. 12:30 p.m.  Witness:  T/Sgt.
         Howard Davis, flight engineer of B-29 bomber at 8,000' altitude.
         One flat object with a sharply pointed front and rounded rear;
         white with a dark blue center and red rim, trailed sparks as it
         dove past the B-29 at a distance of 500', in l second.

         June 22, 1952; Pyungthek, Korea. 10:45 p.m.  Witnesses:  Two
         Marine Corps Sergeants. One 4 ft.  diameter object dove at a
         runway shooting red flames, hovered briefly over a hill, turned
         180 , flashed twice and was gone.

         June 23, 1952; Spokane, Washington.  4:05 p.m.  Witness:  Airport
         weather observer Rex Thompson. One round disc with a metallic
         shine flashed, and fluttered like a flipped coin for 5-7 minutes.

       June 23, 1952; McChord AFB, Washington. 9 p.m. Witness:  2nd
       Lt. K. Thompson. One very large light flew straight and level
       for 10 minutes.  No further information.

       June 23, 1952; Kirksville, Missouri.  Case missing from official
       files.

       June 23, 1952; Oak Ridge, Tennessee.  3:30 a.m.  Witness:
       secretary Martha Milligan. One bullet-shaped object with
       burnt-orange exhaust flew straight and level for 30-60 seconds.

       June 23, 1952; Owensboro, Kentucky.  10:00 a.m.  Witness:
       National Guard Lt. Col. O. L. Depp. Two objects looking like
       "giant soap bubbles", reflecting yellow and lavender colors, flew
       in trail for 5 seconds.

       June 23, 1952; Location unknown, but information came via Japan
       Hq. "CV 4359". 6:08 a.m. Witness:  USAF pilot of the l8th
       Fighter-Bomber Group. One black coin-shaped object, 15-20' in
       diameter, made an irregular descent.

       June 25, 1952; Chicago, Illinois. 8:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  Mrs.
       Norbury, Mr. Matheis. One bright yellow-white, egg-shaped object
       which sometimes had a red tail, made seven circles in 1 1/2
       hours.

       June 25, 1982; Japan-Korea area.  Case missing from official
       files.

       June 26, 1952; Terre Haute, Indiana. 2:45 a.m. Witness:  USAF
       2nd Lt. C. W. Povelites. Undescribed object flew at 600 m.p.h.
       and then stopped.  No further information in files.

       June 26, 1952; Pottstown, Pennsylvania.  11:50 p.m.  Witness:
       assistant manager of airport.  Three sightings of flashing
       lights:  two lights separated by 2 miles, with the leader
       flashing steadily and the other irregularly; two similarly
       flashing lights, but with l mile separation; finally a single
       light.  Speed estimated at 150-250 m.p.h.. Total of 1/2 hour.

       June 27, 1952; Topeka, Kansas. 6:50 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF pilot
       2nd Lt. K. P. Kelly and wife. One pulsating red object which
       changed shape from a circular to a vertical oval as it pulsed.
       Was stationary for about 5 minutes, then went out.

       June 28, 1952; Lake Kishkanoug, Wisconsin. 6 p.m. Witness:  G.
       Metcalfe. One silver-white sphere became an ellipse as it turned
       and climbed away very fast.  10 seconds.

       June 28, 1952; Nagoya, Japan. 4:10 p.m.  Witness:  Capt. T. W.
       Barger, USAF electronics countermeasures officer.  One dark blue
       elliptical-shaped object with a pulsing border flew straight and
       level at 700-800 m.p.h..

       June 29, 1952; O'Hare Airport, Chicago, Illinois. 5:45 p.m.
       witnesses:  three USAF air policemen.  One bright silver, flat
       oval object surrounded by a blue haze, hovered, then moved very
       fast to the right and to the left, and up and down for 45
       minutes.



--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*++++++++++++++++++++++
+                             *    *  ******  ******   *       *   *****  +
+ Dean Madsen, KE0WO          *   *   *       *   **   *       *  *     * +
+ Inet: [e-mail]    *  *    *       *  * *    *  *  *   *     * +
+                             * *     ****    * *  *    * * * *   *     * +
+   Packet:                   *   *   *       **   *     *   *    *     * +
+KE0WO @ KE0WO.#NWIA.IA.USA.NA*    *  ******  ******     *   *     *****  +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Stone Cold Gentleman)
Subject: Greetings
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     Greetings Eartlings, I am Brogedulakigthorn ma Toonet of the 34th planet in the megatooth galaxy.  I will be invading your miserable planet this week.  Those that wish to visit me and fuck some alien women please leave a reply.  But I warn you.  I am going to destroy this planet and all earthlins next wed. night.  Look out.  Only those that vote for Clinton shall be saved and taken to my ship!   Be ware I will come.

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From: [e-mail]
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Subject: I am Earl.
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Hello,

I am Earl from the planet Rigel 7.

I have come to swallow all of the swamp gas on Earth.

Would someone please direct me to the Florida Everglades?
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From: [e-mail] (Fibre Optics)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 92 10:33:55 GMT
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I have a fascinating book, "The Reader's Handbook". It was first
published in 1897, the version I have was updated by Rev. E. Cobham
Brewer and published in 1911. It contains the following entry:-


Spring-Heel Jack. The marquis of Waterford, in the early parts of the
nineteenth century, used to amuse himself by springing on travellers
unawares, to terrify them ; and from time to time others have followed
his silly example. Even so late as 1877-8, an officer in her
majesty's service caused much excitement in the garrisons stationed at
Aldershot, Colchester , and elsewhere, by his "spring-heel" pranks. In
Chichester and its neighbourhood the tales told of this adventurer
caused quite a little panic, and many nervous people were afraid to
venture out after sunset, for fear of being "sprung" upon. I myself
investigated some of the cases reported to me, but found them for the
most part Fakenham ghost tales.
--
Peter Harris   G4BDQ  |         Unusual exploding disclaimer  ->    (}|){//)
Fibre Optics *-----------------------------------------------------(--PAF !-)
Southampton University| "Relax in the safety of your own delusions" (/}|{\\)
[e-mail]    |           Kerry Wendell Thornley              |||
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From: [e-mail] (GUNNAR HORRIGMO)
Subject: My Stepmother Is An Alien!
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 4/6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 92 09:37:01 CDT
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Lines: 504

       Sept. 24, 1952; Charleston, West Virginia. 3:30 p.m. Witnesses:
       crew of USAF B-29 bomber. A lot of bright, metallic particles or
       flashes, up to 3' in length, streamed past the B-29 for 15
       minutes.

       Sept. 26, 1952; 400 miles NNW of Azores Islands. 11:16 p.m.
       Witnesses:  pilot, copilot, engineer and aircraft commander of
       USAF C-124 transport plane. Two distinct green lights were seen
       to the right and slightly above the C-124, and at one time seemed
       to turn toward it.  The lights alternated leading each other
       during more than 1 hour of observation.

       Sept. 27, 1952; Inyokern, California.  10 p.m.  Witnesses:  two
       couples, using a 5x telescope.  One large, round object, which
       went through the color spectrum every 2 seconds, was seen to fly
       straight and level for 15 minutes.

       Sept. 29, 1952; Rochester, England.  3:55 p.m.  Witnesses
       unknown, but report came via the Rochester Police Dept. Two flat
       objects hovered for 3 minutes, and then sped away.

      Sept. 29, 1952; Southern Pines, North Carolina. 8:15 p.m.
       Witnesses:  U.S. Army Res. lst Lt. C.H. Stevens and two others.
       One green ellipse with a long tail orbited for 15 minutes.

       Sept. 29, 1952; Aurora, Colorado.  3:15 p.m.  Witness:  USAF
       T/Sgt. B.R. Hughes. Five or six circular objects, bright white
       but not shiny, circled in trail formation for 5-6 minutes.

       Oct. 1, 1952; Shaw AFB, South Carolina. 6:57 p.m. Witness:
       USAF lst Lt. T.J. Pointek, pilot of RF-8O reconnaissance jet. One
       bright white light flew straight, then vertical, then hovered,
       and then made an abrupt turn during a 23 minute attempted
       intercept.

       Oct. 1, 1952; Pascagoula, Mississippi.  7:40 p.m.  Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. C.C. McLean and one other person.  One round,
       milky-white object, shaped like a powder puff, hovered for 5-10
       minutes then flew away very fast in an arc.  A loud blast was
       heard at the start of the 22 minute sighting.

       Oct. 7, 1952; Alamagordo, New Mexico. 8:30 p.m. Witness:  USAF
       Lt. Bagnell. One pale blue oval, with its long axis vertical,
       flew straight and level for 4-5 seconds, covering 30 in that
       time.

       Oct. 10, 1952; Otis AFB, Massachusetts.  6:30 p.m.  Witnesses:
       USAF S/Sgt., two other enlisted men.  One blinking white light
       moved like a pendulum for 20 minutes, and then shot straight up.

       Oct. 17, 1952; Taos, New Mexico.  9:15 p.m.  Witnesses:  Four
       USAF officers One round, bright blue light moved from north to
       northeast at an elevation of 45* for 2-3 seconds and then burned
       out.

       Oct. 17, 1952; Killeen, Texas. 10:15 p.m.  Witnesses:  Ministers
       Greenwalt and Kluck. Ten lights, or a rectangle of lights, moved
       more or less straight and level for 5 seconds.

       Oct. 17, 1952; Tierra Amarilla, New Mexico. 11 p.m. Witness:
       one military  person (no detail).  One white streamer moved at an
       estimated 3,000 m.p.h.  in an arc for 20 seconds.  No further
       details in files.

       Oct. 19, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 1:30 p.m. Witness:  one
       ex-USAF aircrewman Woolsey. Three circular aluminum objects, one
       of which was olive-drab colored on the side, flew in a rough
       V-formation. One object flipped slowly, another object stopped,
       during the 3-4 minute sighting.

       Oct. 19. 1952; 500 miles south of Hawaii. 6:58 p.m. Witnesses:
       crew of USAF C-50 transport plane.  One round yellow light, with
       a red glowing edge, estimated at 100' in diameter, flew at
       300-400 kts.  (350-450 m.p.h.) for 20 seconds.

       Oct. 21, 1952; Knoxville, Tennessee.  No time given. Witnesses:
       persons at airport weather station.  Six white lights flew in a
       loose formation for 1-2 minutes, and made a shallow dive at a
       weather balloon.

       Oct. 24, 1952; Elberton, Alabama.  8:26 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF
       Lt. Rau, Capt. Marcinko, flying a Beech T-ll trainer. One
       object, shaped like a plate, with a brilliant front and vague
       trail, flew with its concave surface forward for 5 seconds.

       Oct. 29, 1952; Erding Air Depot, West Germany. 7:50 a.m.
       Witnesses:  USAF S/Sgt. Anderson, A/2c Max Handy. One round
       object, silhouetted against a cloud, flew straight and level and
       smooth at 400 m.p.h.  for 20 seconds.

       Oct. 31, 1952; Fayetteville, Georgia. 7:40 p.m. Witness:  USAF
       Lt. James Allen. One orange, blimp-shaped object, 80' long and
       20' high, flew at treetop level, crossed over Allen's car (at
       which time his radio stopped playing), then climbed out at 45'
       and tremendous speed at the end of a 1 minute sighting.

       Nov. 3, 1952; Laredo AFB, Texas. 66:29 p.m.  Witnesses:  two
       control tower operators, including Lemaster. One long,
       elliptical, white-grey light flew very fast, paused, and then
       increased speed during a 3-4 second observation.

       Nov. 4, 1952; Vineland, New Jersey.  5:40 p.m.  Witness:
       housewife Mrs. Sprague. Two groups of 2-3 whirling discs of
       light flew toward the southeast over a period of 30 seconds.

       Nov. 12, 1952; Los Alamos, New Mexico. 10:23 p.m. Witness:
       security inspector.  Four red-white-green lights flew slowly over
       a prohibited area for 15 minutes.

       Nov. 13, 1952; Opheim, Montana. 2:20 a.m.  Witness:  radar
       tracking by USAF 779th AC&W station.  An unexplained track was
       followed for 1 hour, 28 minutes, at 158,000' altitude (30 miles)
       and a speed of 240 m.p.h.  Radar was FPS/3 (PPI).

       Nov. 13, 1952; Glasgow, Montana.  2:43 a.m.  Witness:  U.S.
       Weather Bureau observer Earl Oksendahl. Five oval-shaped
       objects, with lights all around them, flew in a V-formation for
       about 20 seconds.  Each object seemed to be changing position
       vertically by climbing or diving as if to hold formation.
       Formation came from the northwest, made a 90* overhead, and flew
       away to the southwest.

       Nov. 15, 1952; Wichita, Kansas.  7:02 a.m.  Witnesses:  USAF Maj.
       R.L. Wallander, Capt. Belleman, A/3c Phipps. One orange object
       (a blue streak?) varied in shape, as it made jerky upward sweeps
       with 10-15 second pauses during a 3-5 minute sighting.

       Nov. 24, 1952; Annandale, Virginia.  6:30 p.m.  Witness:  L.L'
       Brettner. One round, glowing object flew very fast, made right
       angle turns and reversed course during a 1 hour sighting.

       Nov. 27, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 12:10 p.m. Witnesses:
       pilot and crew chief of UAAF B-26 bomber. A series of black
       smoke bursts (4-3-3-4-3), similar to antiaircraft fire, was seen
       over a 20 minute period.C. 12:30 a.m. Witnesses:  radar

       Nov. 30, 1952; Washington, D.C. l
       operators at Washington National Airport. Radar trackings
       similar to those of July 26, 1952.

       Dec. 8, 1952; Ladd AFB, Alaska.  8:16 p.m.  Witnesses:  pilot lst
       Lt. D. Dickman and radar operator lst Lt. T. Davies in USAF F-94
       jet interceptor (s/n 49-2522).  One white, oval light which
       changed to red at higher altitude, flew straight and level for 2
       minutes, then climbed at phenomenal speed on an erratic flight
       path.  Sighting lasted 10 minutes.

       Dec. 9, 1952; Madison, Wisconsin.  5:45 p.m.  Witnesses:  Capt.
       Bridges and lst Lt. Johneon in USAF T-33 jet trainer. Four
       bright lights, in diamond formation, flew at 400 m.p.h.  and were
       passed by the T-33 at 450 m.p.h. during the 10 minute sighting.

       Dec. 28, 1952; Marysville, California.  Case missing from
       official files.

       Jan. 1, 1953; Craig, Montana. 8:45 p.m.  Witnesses:  Warner
       Anderson and two women. A silver, saucer-shaped object with a
       red glowing bottom, flew low over a river and then climbed fast
       in a horizontal attitude.  Ten second sighting.

       Jan. 8, 1953; Larson AFB, Washington.  7:15 a.m.  Witnesses:  men
       from the 82nd Fighter-Interceptor Squadron, including the
       squadron commander; all were on the ground.  One green, disc-
       shaped or round object flew southwest for 15 minutes, with a
       vertically bobbing motion and sideways movements, below clouds.

       Jan. 10, 1953; Sonoma, California.  3:45 p.m.  or 4 p.m.
       Witnesses:  retired Col. Robert McNab, and Mr. Hunter of the
       Federal Security Agency. One flat object, like a pinhead, made
       three 360* right turns in 9 seconds, made abrupt 90* turns to the
       right and left, stopped, accelerated to original speed and
       finally flew out of sight vertically after 60-75 seconds.

       Jan. 17, 1953; near Guatemala City, Guatemala. 3:55 p.m.
       Witness:  geologist/salesman J.J. Sackett. One brilliant
       green-gold object, shaped like the Goodyear blimp with its length
       twice its height, flew 400 m.p.h.  straight and level, stopped,
       then went straight up with one stop.  Sighting lasted 22 seconds.

       Jan. 28, 1953; Pt. Mugu, California.  1 p.m.  Witness:  R.W.
       Love, owner of Love Diving Co., engaged in retrieving radio-
       controlled drones.  An 18-20' white, flat disc flew straight and
       level, overhead, for 6 minutes.

       Jan. 28, 1953; Corona, California.  6:05 p.m.  Witness:  USAF
       T/Sgt. George Beyer. Five 25' green spheres flew in V-formation,
       then changed to trail formation at which time the end objects
       turned red.  Sighting lasted 12 minutes.

       Jan. 28, 1953; Albany, Georgia. No time given. Witnesses:
       radar maintenance personnel.  Radar tracked one stationary target
       for 20 minutes.  A visual sighting about the same time was
       explained.  No further information in the files.

       Feb. 3, 1953; Keflavik, Iceland.  5:25 p.m.  Witnesses:  radar
       operators.  Four unidentified targets were tracked for 24
       minutes.  No further data.

       Feb. 4, 1953; Yuma, Arizona. 1:50 p.m.  Witness:  U.S. Weather
       Bureau observer Stanley Brown, using a theodolite.  One white,
       oblong object was tracked flying straight up, leveling off and
       being joined by a second, similar, object.  The second twice flew
       away and returned to the first.  After 5 minutes, both were lost
       to sight behind clouds.

       Feb. 17, 1953; Port Austin. Michigan. 10:04 p.m. Witnesses:
       two officers and three airmen of USAF AC&W squadron, visually and
       by radar.  Visual object appeared to larger and brighter than a
       star and changed color; it was seen to move slowly for 5 minutes
       until 10:09 p.m.  Radar picked up a target at 10:08 p.m.  moving
       in a similar direction for 17 minutes, at similar speed.

       Feb. 20, 1953; Pittsburg-Stockton, California. #1 time unknown;
       #2, 10:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF B-25 bomber pilots. #1 was a
       bright yellow light seen for 8 minutes.  #2 was a bright light
       which flew on a collision course, dimmed and climbed away fast.

       Feb. 24, 1953; Sherman, Texas. 7:43 p.m.  Witnesses:  Warrant
       Officer and Mrs. Alden. Two bright red, round objects with big
       halos flew in small circles, climbed and faded during a 3-7
       second sighting.

       Feb. 27, 1953; Shreveport, Louisiana.  11:58 a.m.  Witness:  USAF
       airman/private pilot.  Five yellow discs made circular turns,
       fluttered, three of them vanished, the other two flew erratic
       square turns for a total of 4 minutes.

       March 11, 1953; Hackettstown, New Jersey. 4 a.m. Witness:  Mrs.
       Nina Cook, an experienced private pilot and wife of a Pan Am
       flight engineer.  A large light, blinking at 10-15 times per
       minute, moved up and down along a mountain range.

       March 14, 1953; north of Hiroshima, Japan. 11:45 p.m.
       Witnesses:  radar and visual observation by 10 crew members of
       U.S. Navy P2V-5 patrol plane. Groups of 5-10 colored lights,
       totalling 90-100, slowly moved aft off the left side of the
       airplane, as detected visually and by airborne radar for 5
       minutes.

       March 21, 1953; Elmira, New York. 3:05 p.m. Witness:  Ground
       Observer Corps observation post.  Six discs in a group flew high
       and fast for a few seconds.

       March 25, 1953; San Antonio, Texas. 3:05 p.m. Witnesses:  USAF
       Capt. and Mrs. D.E. Cox. Several lights, some of which moved
       straight, others which made 360^ turns for 1.5 hours.

       March 27, 1953; Mt. Taylor, New Mexico. 7:25 p.m. Witness:
       pilot of USAF F-86 jet fighter at 600 kts.  (700 m.p.h.).  One
       bright orange circle flew at 800 kts.  (900 m.p.h.), and executed
       three fast rolls.  Pilot chased object for 4 minutes.

       March 29, 1953; Spooner, Wisconsin.  3:45 p.m.  Witness:  L.C.
       Gillette. One aluminum, circular object flew high and fast,
       twice reversing its course.  Note:  Mr. Gillette saw a similar
       object in 1938.  Fifteen second sighting.

       April 8, 1953; Fukuoka, Japan. 7:55 p.m.  Witness:  lst Lt. D.J.
       Pichon, pilot of USAF F-94B jet interceptor.  One bright blue
       light descended, accelerated, flew parallel to the F-94,
       increased its speed and blinked out after 45 seconds.

       April 15, 1953; Tucson, Arizona.  5:45 p.m.  Witness:  S/Sgt.
       V.A. Locey. Three orange lights were seen for:  3 minutes, 30
       seconds, and a few seconds.

       May 1, 1953; Goose AFB, Labrador, Canada. 11:35 p.m. Witnesses:
       pilot and radar operator of USAF F-94 jet interceptor, and
       control tower operator.  One white light evaded interception
       attempt by F-94 during 30 minute sighting.

       May 27, 1953; San Antonio, Texas.  8:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  many
       unidentified civilians, including Jacobson. Nine separate
       meandering lights were seen during 15 minute sighting.

       June 21, 1953; Naha, Okinawa. 7 p.m.  Witnesses:  Nine Japanese
       and Okinawan weather observers. One unidentified light moved
       slowly for 20 minutes.  No further data in files.

       June 22, 1953; Goose AFB, Labrador, Canada. Z:lO a.m.
       Witnesses:  pilot and radar operator of USAF F-94 jet
       interceptor.  One red light, flying at an estimated 1,000 kts.
       (1,100 m.p.h.) eluded the chasing F-94 after 5 minutes.

       June 24, 1953; Iwo Jima, Bonin Islands. 11:30 p.m. Witnesses:
       crew of USAF KB-29 aerial tanker plane.  Radar tracked an
       unidentified target which twice approached to within .5 miles of
       the airplane, and once to within 6 miles, during a 2 minute
       observation.

       June 24, 1953; Simiutak, Greenland.  11:30 a.m.  Witness:
       weather observer A/2c R.A. Hill.  One red triangle hovered and
       rotated for 15 seconds, then climbed for 5 minutes.

       Aug. 3, 1953; Amarillo, Texas. 12:04 p.m.  Witness:  Airport
       control tower chief C.S. Brown. One round and reflective or
       translucent object flew straight, stopped for 7 seconds, sped
       along, stopped again, was joined by a similar object and they
       flew off in different directions, after a total of 56 minutes.

       Aug. 20, 1953; near Castle AFB, California. 9:05 p.m.
       Witnesses:  crew of TB-29 bomber/trainer plane.  One greyish oval
       object made four passes at the airplane (three times at 10-20
       miles distance), then dived vertically as if two objects.

       Aug. 27, 1953; Greenville, Mississippi.  9:45 p.m.  Witnesses:
       USAF pilot, M/Sgt., others, all on the ground.  One meandering
       light was observed for 50 minutes.  No further details in file.

       Sept. 2, 1953; Sidi Slimane AFB, French Morocco. 9:14 p.m.
       Witnesses:  Lt. Col. William Moore and lst Lt. J.H. McInnis,
      Dec. 24, 1953; El Cajon, California.  8:04 a.m.  Witnesses:  U.S.
      Navy Lts. J.B. Howard and L.D. Linhard, flying F9F-2 jet
      fighters.  Ten silver, oval objects flew at more than 400 kts.
      (450 m.p.h.), straight and level, for 5 minutes.

      Dec. 28, 1953; Marysville, California.  11:55 a.m.  Witness:
      Yuba County Airport Manager Dick Brandt. One saucer, with a
      brilliant blue light, reflecting on a nearby building, hovered
      briefly during the 1.5 minute observation.

      Jan. 28, 1954; Rangeley, Maine. 110-10:15 a.m.  Witness:  Wilhelm
      Reich. Two bright lights moved into valley, and were seen
      against the mountain background, for 15 minutes.

      Feb. 26, 1954; Newburyport, Massachusetts. 2:30 p.m. Witnesses:
      architect R.M. Pierce, marine engineer George Avery and one other
      person.  One silver disc, with a white trail, made a loud roar
      for 30-60 seconds.

       March 2, 1954; vicinity of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. 10 p.m.
       Witness:  research engineer R.C. Swengel. Three objects, each
       with two lights, flew straight and level at medium speed for an
       unknown length of time.

       March 5, 1954; Nouasseur, French Morocco. 8 p.m. Witnesses:
       crews of USAF KC-97 aerial tanker planes.  One object or light
       made passes at KC-97s, the other flew straight and level.
       Sighting duration unknown.

       March 12, 1954; Nouasseur, French Morocco. 9:35 a.m. Witness:
       USAF lst Lt. Robert Johnson, flying an F-86 jet fighter. He
       chased an object at more than 530 m.p.h.  for 30 seconds, but was
       unable to catch it.  It appeared to be the size of a fighter
       plane but had neither tanks nor trails.

       April 8, 1954; Chicago, Illinois.  4:30 p.m.  Witness:  Lelah
       Stoker. One white round-topped disc, with a humanoid suspended
       beneath it, skimmed over the water, landed, and an occupant in a
       green suit walked around.  It then took off very, very fast.
       Sighting lasted 30 minutes.

       April 23, 1954; Pittsfield, Maine. 9:30 a.m. Witnesses:  Mr.
       and Mrs. F.E. Robinson. One silver dollar-shaped object with a
       dome and a flashing light made a sound like a swarm of bees.  It
       hovered and tilted, flew horizontally, then rose vertically
       without tilting.  Stones underneath it moved.  Four minute
       sighting.

       April 24, 1954; Hartland, Maine.  6:10 p.m.  Witness:  D.
       Robinson. One large, silver, oblong object with a dome and a
       flashing light flew straight and level and then straight up.
       Total of 15 minutes under observation.

       April 26, 1954; Athens, Georgia.  7:35 p.m.  Witnesses:  C.
       Cartey, Mr. and Mrs. H. Hopkins and their daughter.  Fifteen to
       twenty yellow objects in a V-formation, flew from south to north
       for 10 seconds.

       May 10, 1954; Elsinore, California.  12:40 p.m.  Witness:  U.S.
       Marine Corps Squadron Leader D.R. Higgin, flying an F3D-2 jet
       fighter.  One dark gunmetal delta-shaped object, 22' long and 10'
       wide, with a fin on the top, descended at a 25-30' angle under
       the lead airplane of a formation, and over the airplane of
       Higgin. Sighting lasted a few seconds.

       May 11, 1954; Washington, D.C. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses:  three
       USAF.air policemen at Washington National Airport. Two bright
       lights were seen on three occasions to fly straight and level,
       make 90* turns and fade.  Each sighting lasted about 45 seconds.

       May 22, 1954; LaPorte, Indiana.  9:15 p.m.  Witnesses:  highway
       engineer R.W. Dring, engineer Geert Tibma. One bright light made
       a shallow climb for 45 seconds.

       May 31, 1954; Concord, New Hampshire.  10:15 a.m.  Witness:  Mrs.
       L.K. Stevens. One very white, elongated object flew very, very
       fast, and then blinked out after 8-10 seconds.

       June 1, 1954; from 400 miles south to Minneapolis, Minnesota.
       9 p.m.  Witnesses:  crew of USAF B-47 jet bomber at 34,000'
       altitude.  One object with running lights flew at 24-44,000'
       altitude for 1 hour.

       June 8, 1954; Texarkana, Texas.  1 a.m.  or 2:30 a.m.  (file not
       clear).  Witness:  L.T. Prewitt, employee of Red River Arsenal.
       One golden yellow light flew over his house, making a "shhh" or
       buzzing sound for 2 minutes.  9:09 p.m.  Witness:  USAF pilot

       June 10, 1954; Estacado, Texas.  9:09 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot
       Capt. Bill McDonald, in flight. One white light descended at
       45^ from great altitude, passed under his aircraft, made two
       360' turns and went out after 30 seconds.

       June 22, 1954; Miami Beach, Florida. 9 p.m. Witnesses: U.S.
       Marine Corps Maj. E. Buchser and Maj. J.V. Wilkins. One meteor-
       like object descended, stopped, and became extremely bright.
       Sighting lasted 7 minutes.

       June 24, 1954; Danvers, Massachusetts.  12:45 p.m.  Witness:
       R.B. Tomer, director of commercial engineering for CBS-Hytron.
       One white, elliptical-shaped object covered 45^ of sky in 30
       seconds.

       June 25, 1954; Indian Lake, Ohio. 5:05 p.m. Witnesses:
       experienced private pilot John Mark, flying Navion lightplane;
       radar at Dayton, Ohio airport, tracked very fast target at same
       location.  One silver or aluminum round object with a flat
       bottom, raised front edge, inverted cone on top, and a diameter
       of about 60'.  Flew horizontally, hovered, made a high-G pull up
       and then a steep climb into an overcast.  Sighting lasted 3-5
       minutes.

       July 18,     ; Normandy, Missouri.  8:40 p.m.  Witness:  A.T.
       Chamblin. One greenish-white disc was seen for 30 minutes.

       July 25, 1954; Middle Sister Island, on U.S.-Canadian border in
       western Lake Erie. 7:12 p.m. Witness:  attorney L.B. Tussing.
       One black cylinder, 12 times long as wide, moved fast along the
       surface of the lake.

       July 30, 1954; Los Angeles, California. 10:15 a.m. Witness:
       Hughes Aircraft test pilots Englert and Peterson, flying a B-25
       bomber.  One metallic, pencil-shaped object flew slowly or
       hovered for an unstated length of time.

       Aug. 2, 1954; Westlake, Ohio. 5:17 p.m.  Witness:  ex-AAF B-17
       gunner (19 missions) N.E. Schroeder.  One thin, bright ellipse,
       like polished metal, hovered for 5-8 seconds, dropped down 3,000'
       in 3 seconds, hovered again and faded out after a total of 20
       seconds in view.

       Aug' 6, 1954; San Antonio, Texas.  6 p.m.  Witness:  mechanical
       engineer L.H. Hormer. One intensely white elliptical light
       changed to yellow, then orange, then pink, four or five times
       while flying straight and level for 5 minutes.

       Aug. 11, 1954; Yoron Jima, near Okinawa. 8:55 p.m. Witness:
       P.L. Percharde, electrical engineer and assistant manager of
       Moeller Shipwrecker Co., of Okinawa. A line of blue lights,
       underneath.  a blue circle with a black center.  Flew over ship
       and climbed, illuminating and agitating the clouds.

       Aug. 15, 1954; San Marcos, Texas.  10:20 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF
       Maj. W.J. Davis, Capt. R.D. Sauers, flying a C-47 transport
       plane.  One dark blue oblong object paced the C-47, veered away,
       then crossed in front of it.  Five minute sighting.

       Aug. 24, 1954; Egilstadir, Iceland.  8:30 p.m.  Witness:  one
       unnamed farmer.  A cylinder, 2-2.5' long, 4-5' in diameter, made
       a loud whizzing sound, flew straight and level fast, then slow,
       then fell into sandbar.

       Aug. 26, 1954; Danville, Virginia.  6:15 a.m.  Witness:  Rev.
       W.L. Shelton. Two domed ellipses, 20' long, 8' thick, 10' at
       ends; glowing silver or orange.  Hovered, then climbed side-by-
        side while getting brighter.  Observed for 2 minutes.

        Aug. 27, 1954; Dorchester, Massachusetts.  1 p.m.  Witness:  E.A.
        Srazdes. Seven large, white, teardrop-shaped objects turned
        blue.  Flew in line formation and increased speed during the 2
        minute sighting.

        Aug. 29, 1954; Prince Christian, Greenland. 11:05 a.m.
        Witnesses:  lst Officer H.G. Gardner, engineer J.V.D. Whitisy,
        flying Royal Dutch Airlines DC-4 (PH-DBZ). Three or four dark,
        lens-shaped objects veered north and changed position in
        formation during the 10 minute sighting.

        Sept. 4, 1954; Butler, Missouri.  3 a.m.  Witness:  J.
        Faltemeier, CAA communications specialist.  Twenty-thirty lights,
        as if on a string, flew straight and level for 1.5 minutes.

        Sept. 5, 1954; Butler, Missouri.  12:23 a.m.  Witness:  J.
        Faltemeier, CAA communications specialist.  One silver or white
        object with a slightly swept-back leading edge and a following
        exhaust, flew straight and level, then veered southwest to south
        after 30 seconds.

        Sept. 18, 1954; Kimpo Air Base, Japan. 5:55 a.m. Witnesses:
        two control tower operators, a weather forecaster and a weather
        observer.  One round object, like polished aluminum, flew
        straight and level for 11-13 minutes.
       Sighting las ted 2 minutes.

--
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 3/6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 92 09:35:27 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Lines: 514

       July 3, 1952; Selfridge AFB, Michigan.  4:15 a.m.  Witnesses not
       identified.  Two big lights, estimated at 20' diameter, flew
       straight and level at tremendous speed.

       July 3, 1952; Chicago, Illinois. 11:50 p.m.  Witness:  Mrs. J.
       D. Arbuckle. Two bright pastel green discs flew straight and
       level very fast for 6 seconds.

       July 5, 1952; Norman, Oklahoma. 7:58 p.m.  Witness:  Oklahoma
       State Patrolman Hamilton in State Patrol airplane. Three dark
       discs hovered and then flew away, silhouetted against a dark
       cloud.  15 seconds.

       July 6-12, 1952; Elizabeth, New Jersey. 11:00 p.m. Witness:
       Charles Muhr. Four pictures taken of some indistinct light which
       was admittedly not seen visually, but which appeared on the
       negatives.

       July 9, 1952; Colorado Springs, Colorado. 12:45 p.m. Witness:
       USAF pilot Maj. C. K. Griffin. One object shaped like an airfoil
       less its trailing edge, luminous white, moved slowly and
       erratically for 12 minutes.

       July 9, 1952; Kutztown, Pennsylvania.  6:30 p.m.  Witness:
       farmer John Mittl. One aluminum, oval-shaped object changed
       direction and attitude, finally tipping on end and departing
       after 20 seconds.  Case file includes three vague photographs.

       July 9, 1952; Rapid City AFB, South Dakota. 3:35 p.m.
       Witnesses:  S/Sgt. D.P. Foster and three other persons.  Three
       times, a single white, disc-shaped object sped by, straight and
       level, in 5 seconds.

       July 12, 1952; Annapolis, Maryland.  3:30 p.m.  Witness:
       insurance company president William Washburn. Four large,
       elliptical-shaped objects were seen to fly very fast, stop, turn
       90* and fly away in 7-8 seconds.                 .

       July 12, 1952; Kirksville, Missouri.  9 p.m.  Witnesses:  many
       radar controllers who were military officers.  Several big blips
       tracked on radar at 1,500 kts.  (1,700 m.p.h.).  There was no
       visual sighting.

       July 14, 1952; Norfolk, Virginia. 8:12 p.m.  Witnesses:  Pan
       American Airways First Officer William Nash, Second Officer
       William Fortenberry. Eight large, round, glowing red objects
       maneuvered below their airliner, in formation.

       July 15, 1952; West Palm Beach, Florida. 10:10 p.m. Witnesses:
       J. Antoneff and two other persons.  One discus-shaped object,
       greyish, except when hovering, when it appeared muddy.  Hovered
       over Palm Beach International Airport, then followed an SA-l6
       twin-engined amphibian and flew away after 40-60 seconds.

       July 16, 1952; Beverly, Massachusetts.  9:35 a.m.  Witness:  U.S.
       Coast Guard photographer Shell Alpert. Four roughly elliptical
       blobs of light in formation photographed through window of photo
       lab.

       July 17, 1952; White Plains, New York. 3:10 p.m. Witness:  Mrs.
       Florence Daley. Two round objects, bluish-white with brighter
       rims, flew in formation, making a sound like bombers, only
       softer.  Note:  Later, the witness stated she heard many feminine
       voices coming from the objects.

       July 17, 1952; Lockbourne, Ohio. 11 a.m.  Witness:  Air National
       Guard employees. One light like a big star was seen for 3 hours,
       but disappeared when an aircraft approached.  Also seen the
       night of July 20, 22 and 23.

       July 18, 1952; Lockbourne, Ohio. 9:10 p.m.  Witnesses:  T/Sgt.
       Mahone, A/3c Jennings. One amber-colored, elliptical-shaped
       object with a small flame at the rear, periodically increased in
       brightness.  It moved very fast for l 1/2 minutes, giving off a
       resonant beat sound.

       July 18, 1952; Miami, Florida. 11 a.m.  Witnesses:  E. R. Raymer
       and daughter.  One opaque, silvery bubble flew very fast at a
       right-angle to the wind direction for 10 seconds.

       July 18, 1952; Patrick AFB, Florida.  9:45 p.m.  Witnesses:
       three USAF officers and four enlisted men.  Over an hour period,
       a series of hovering and maneuvering red-orange lights were
       observed moving in a variety of directions.

       July 19, 1952; Williston, North Dakota. 2:55 a.m. Witness:  one
       experienced civilian pilot.  One elliptical-shaped object with a
       light fringe, travelled down fast, made a 360* and then a 180*
       turn in 5 minutes.

       July 19, 1952; Elkins Park, Pennsylvania.  11:35 p.m.  Witnesses:
       USAF pilot Capt. C.J. powley and wife.  Two star-like lights
       maneuvered, hovered and sped for 5-7 minutes.

      July 20, 1952; Lavalette, New Jersey. 12:20 a.m. Witness:
      Seton Hall Univ. chemistry professor Dr. A.B. Spooner. Two large
      orange-yellow lights with some dull red coloring flew in trail,
      turned and circled for 5-6 minutes.

      July 21, 1952; Weisbaden, West Germany. 6:30 p.m. Witnesses:
      USAF pilot Capt. E.E. Dougher, WAF Lt. J.J. Stong, situated miles
      apart.  Four bright yellowish lights were seen by Dougher to
      separate, with two climbing and two flying away level in the
      opposite direction.  Stong watched two reddish lights fly in
      opposite directions.  Sightings lasted about 10-15 minutes.

      July 21, 1952; San Marcos AFB, Texas. 10:40 p.m. Witnesses:
      one Lieutenant, two Staff Sergeants, three airmen.  One blue
      circle with a blue trail was seen to hover and then accelerate to
      near-sonic speed (700+ m.p.h.) after 1 minute.

      July 21, 1952; Converse, Texas. 4:30 p.m.  Witness:  wife of
      USAF Capt. J. B. Neal. One elongated, fuselage-shaped object
      flew straight and level, made a right-angle turn and went out of
      sight at more than 300 m.p.h., all in 3-5 seconds.

      July 21, 1952; Rockville, Indiana.  8:10 p.m.  Witnesses:  one
      military officer, two enlisted men.  One aluminum, delta-shaped
      object with a vertical fin, flew straight and level, and then
      hovered during a 3 minute sighting.

      July 22, 1952; Holyoke, Massachusetts.  After midnight. Witness:
      Mrs. A. Burgess. One round, yellow, flashing light went
      downward.  No further information in files.

      July 22, 1952; Los Alamos, New Mexico. 10:50 a.m. Witnesses:
      control tower operator Don Weins, and two pilots for Carco.
      Eight large, round, bright aluminum objects flew straight and
      level, then darted around erratically during 25 minutes.

      July 22, 1952; Uvalde, Texas. 2:46 p.m.  Witness:  Don Epperly,
      Trans Texas Airlines station manager and weather observer.  One
      large, round, silver object flew at more than 1,000 m.p.h.  for 45
      seconds, while gyrating.

      July 22, 1952; between Boston and Provincetown, Massachusetts.
      10:47 p.m.  Witnesses:  pilot and radar operator of USAF F-94 jet
      interceptor.  One round blue light passed F-94, spinning.

      July 22, 1952; Trenton, New Jersey.  10:50 p.m.  t.o 12:45 a.m.,
      July 23. Witnesses:  crews of several USAF F-94 jet interceptors
      from Dover AFB, Del. Thirteen visual sightings and one radar
      tracking of blue-white lights during two hours.

      July 23, 1952; Pottstown, Pennsylvania.  8:40 a.m.  Witnesses:
      the two-man crews of three USAF F-94 jet interceptors. One large
       silver object, shaped like a long pear with two or three squares
       beneath it, flew at 150-180 kts.  (170-210 m.p.h.), while a
       smaller object, delta-shaped or swept back, flew around it at
       1,000-1,500 kts.  (1,150-1,700 m.p.h.).  Seen by crews for 1-4
       minutes.

       July 23, 1952; Altoona, Pennsylvania.  12:50 p.m.  Witnesses:
       two-man crews of two USAF F-94 jet interceptors at 35-46,000'
       altitude.  Three cylindrical objects in a vertical stack
       formation flew at an altitude of 50-80,000'.  Seen for 20
       minutes.

       July 23, 1952; South Bend, Indiana.  11:35 p.m.  Witness:  USAF
       pilot Capt. H. W. Kloth. Two bright blue-white objects flew
       together, then the rear one veered off after about 9 minutes.

       July 24, 1952; Carson Sink, Nevada. 3:40 p.m. Witnesses:  two
       USAF Lt. Colonels McGinn and Barton in a B-25 bomber. Three
       silver, delta-shaped objects, each with a ridge along the top,
       crossed in front of and above the B-25 at high speed, in 3-4
       seconds.

       July 26, 1952; Washington, D.C. 8 p.m. until after midnight.
       Witnesses:  radar operators at several airports, airline pilots.
       Many unidentified blips tracked by radar all over Washington
       area, at varying speeds.  Pilots spotted unidentified lights.

       July 26, 1952; Kansas City, Missouri. 12:15 a.m. Witnesses:
       USAF Capt. H. A. Stone, men in control towers at Fairfax Field
       and Municipal Airport. One greenish light with red-orange
       flashes was seen for 1 hour as it descended in the northwest from
       40* elevation to 10* elevation.

       July 26, 1952; Andrews AFB, Maryland. This was a continuation of
       the extensive sightings and radar tracking reports reported
       throughout the Washington, D.C. area, all night long.

       July 26, 1952; Kirtland AFB, New Mexico. 12:05 a.m. Witness:
       Airman lst Class J.M. Donaldson. Eight to ten orange balls in a
       triangular or V-formation flew very fast for 3-4 seconds.

       July 26, 1952; Williams, California.  Case missing from official
       files.

       July 27, 1952; Selfridge AFB, Michigan. 10:05 a.m. Witnesses:
       three B-29 bomber crewmen on ground.  Many round, white objects
       flew straight and level, very fast.  Two at 10:05, one at 10:10,
       one at 10:15, one at 10:20.  Each was seen for about 30 seconds.

       July 27, 1952; Wichita Falls, Texas. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses:  Mr.
       and Mrs. Adrian Ellis. Two disc-shaped objects, illuminated by a
       phosphorus light, flew at an estimated l,000 m.p.h.  for 15
       seconds.

       July 28, 1952; Heidelberg, West Germany. 10:20 p.m. Witnesses:
       Sgt. B.C. Grassmoen, WAC Pfc. A.P. Turner. One saucer-shaped
       object having an appearance of light metal and giving off shafts
       of white light, flew slow, made a 90^ turn and climbed away fast
       after 4-5 minutes.

       July 28, 1952; McGuire AFB, New Jersey. 6 a.m. Witness:  Ground
       Control Approach radar operator M/Sgt. W.F. Dees, and persons in
       the base control tower.  Radar tracked a large cluster of very
       distinct blips.  Visual observation was of oblong objects having
       neither wings nor tail, which made a very fast turn and at one
       time were in echelon formation.  Entire episode lasted 55
       minutes.

       July 28, 1952; McChord AFB, Washington. 2:15 a.m. Witnesses:
       T/Sgt. Walstead, S/Sgt. Calkins of the 635th AC&W Squadron. One
       dull, glowing, blue-green ball,.the size of a dime at arms'
       length, flew very fast, straight and level.

       July 29, 1952; Osceola, Wisconsin.  1:30 a.m.  Witnesses:  radar
       operators on ground, pilot of F-5l Mustang in flight. Several
       clusters of up to 10 small radar targets and one large target.
       Small targets moved from southwest to east at 50-60 kts.  (60-70
       m.p.h.), following each other.  The large one moved at 600 kts.
       (700 m.p.h.).  One hour total time.  Pilot confirmed one target.

       July 29, 1952; Langley AFB, Virginia. 2:30 p.m. Witness:  USAF
       Capt D.G. Moore, of military air traffic control system.  One
       undescribed object flew at an estimated 2,600 m.p.h., below
       5,000' altitude, toward the air base for about 2 minutes.

       July 29, 1952; Langley AFB, Virginia. 2:50 p.m. Witnesses:  Mr.
       Moore, Gilfillan electronics representative W. Yhope. One radar
       target tracked moving away, stopped for 2 minutes, again moved
       very, very fast.  Four minutes.

       July 29, 1952; Merced, California.  3:44 or 4:35 p.m.  Witnesses:
       Herbert Mitchell and one employee.  One dark, discus-shaped
       object, trailed by a silvery light 2 lengths behind, tipped on
       its side, dove, hesitated and then circled very fast during the 2
       minute sighting.

       July 29, 1952; Wichita, Kansas. 12:35 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF
       shop employees Douglas and Hess at Municipal Airport. One bright
       white circular object with a flat bottom flew very fast, and then
       hovered 10-15 seconds over the Cessna Aircraft Co. plant, during
       the 5 minute sighting.

       July 29, 1952; Ennis, Montana. 12:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF
       persons, alerted that UFOs were coming from the direction of
       Seattle, Wash. Two to five flat disc-shaped objects:  one
       hovered 3-4 minutes, while the others circled it.  Sighting
       length of 30 minutes not explained further.

       July 30, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 11:02 p.m. Witness:
       USAF lst Lt. George Funk. One orange light remained stationary
       for 10 minutes.  No further details in files.

       July 30, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 10 a.m. Witnesses:  E.E. Nye
       and one other person.  One round, white object flew slow and then
       sped away after 20-30 minutes.

       Aug. 1, 1952; Lancaster, California.  1:14 a.m.  Witnesses:
       sheriff's deputies and other persons, one named Mallette. Two
       brilliant red lights hovered and maneuvered for 5 minutes.

       Aug. 2, 1952; Lake Charles, Louisiana. 3 a.m. Witnesses:  USAF
       lst Lt. W.A. Theil, one enlisted man.  One red ball with a blue
       flame tail flew straight and level for 3-4 seconds.

       Aug. 4, 1952; Phoenix, Arizona. 2:20 a.m.  Witness:  USAF
       A/3c W.F. Vain. One yellow ball which lengthened and narrowed to
       plate shape, flew straight and level for 5 minutes.

       Aug. 4, 1952; Mt. Vernon, New York. 11:37 a.m. Witnesses:  one
       woman, two children.  One object, shaped like a lifesaver or
       donut, emitted black smoke from its top and made a 15' arc in 1.5
       minutes.  Observed for 2 hours.

       Aug 5. 1952; Haneda AFB, Japan. 11:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF
       F-94 jet interceptor pilots lst Lt. W.R. Holder and lst Lt. A.M.
       Jones, and Haneda control tower operators.  Airborne radar
       tracked a target for 90 seconds.  Control tower operators watched
       50-60 minutes while a dark shape with a light flew as fast as 330
       kts.  (380 m.p.h.), hovered, flew curves and performed a variety
       of maneuvers.

       Aug. 6, 1952; Tokyo, Japan. This is a continuation of the Haneda
       AFB sightings.

       Aug. 6, 1952; Port Austin, Michigan.  Case missing from official
       files.

       Aug. 7. 1952; San Antonio, Texas.  9:08 a.m.  Witness:  Mrs.
       Susan Pfuhl. Four glowing white discs:  one made a 180* turn,
       one flew straight and level, one veered off, and one circled
       during the 70 minute sighting.

       Aug. 9, 1952; Lake Charles, Louisiana. 10:50 a.m. Witness:
       USAF A/3c J.P. Raley. One disc-shaped object flew very fast and
       then hovered for 2 seconds during a 5-6 minute sighting.

       Aug. 13, 1952; Tokyo, Japan. 9:45 p.m.  Witness:  USAF Marine
       Corps pilot Maj. D. McGough. One orange light flew a left orbit
       at 8,000' and 230 m.p.h., spiralled down to no more than 1,500',
       remained stationary for 2-3 minutes and went out.  An attempted
       interception was unsuccessful.

       Aug. 18, 1952; Fairfield, California.  12:50 a.m.  Witnesses:
       three policemen.  One object changed color like a diamond, and
       changed directions during the 30 minute sighting.

       Aug. 19, 1952; Red Bluff, California.  2:38 p.m.  Witness:
       Ground Observer Corps observer Albert Lathrop. Two objects,
       shaped like fat bullets, flew straight and level, very fast for
       25 seconds.

       Aug. 20, 1952; Neffesville, Pennsylvania. 3:10 a.m. Witnesses:
       Bill Ford and two others. An undescribed object flew at 500'
       altitude for several minutes.  No further data in files.

       Aug. 21, 1952; Dallas, Texas. 11:54 p.m.  Witness:  Jack Rossen,
       ex-artillery observer.  Three blue-white lights hovered then
       descended; 1.5 minutes later, one of them descended more.

       Aug. 23, 1952; Akron, Ohio. 4:10 a.m.  Witnesses:  USAF 2nd Lt.
       H.K. Funseth, a ground radar observer, and two U.S. Navy men.
       One pulsing amber light was seen to fly straight and level for 7
       minutes.

       Aug. 24, 1952; Hermanas, Mexico. 10:15 a.m.  Witness:  Georgia
       Air National Guard F-84G jet fighter pilot Col. G.W. Johnson.
       Two 6' silver balls in abreast formation, one turned grey
       rapidly, the other slowly.  One changed to long grey shape during
       a turn.  Sighting lasted about 10 minutes.

       Aug. 24, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 5:40 p.m.  Witnesses:  Mr. and
       Mrs. George White. One large round, metallic, white light with a
       vague lower surface, flew slowly, then fast With a dancing,
       wavering motion, for about 1 minute.

       Aug. 24, 1952; Levelland, Texas. 9:30 p.m., 10:30 p.m.
       Witnesses:  Mr. and Mrs. Elmer Sharp. One object, shaped like a
       spinning top, changing color from red to yellow to blue, and with
       a fiery tail, hovered for 20 minutes, whistling, then flew away.
       It, or another like it, returned an hour later.

       Aug. 25, 1952; Pittsburg, Kansas. 5:35 a.m.  Witness:  radio
       station musician William Squyres. One dull aluminum object,
       shaped like two meat platters, face to face, estimated at 75'
       long, 45' wide, and 15' thick.  Through a window in the front
       section shone a blue light; the head and shoulders of a man could
       be seen.  The mid section had numerous windows through which
       could be seen some kind of regular movement.  A series of small
       propellers were spaced close together along the outer edge of the
       object, revolving at high speed.  The object was hovering about
       10' above the ground, 100 yards off the road, with a slight
       rocking motion.  It then ascended vertically with a sound like a
       large covey of quail starting to fly at the same time.
       Vegetation showed signs of having been disturbed under the
       object.

       Aug. 25, 1952; Holloman AFB, New Mexico. 3:40 p.m. Witnesses:
       civilian supervisor Fred Lee, foreman L.A. Aquilar. One round
       silver object flew south, turned and flew north, made a 360 turn
       and flew away vertically after 3-5 minutes.

       Aug. 26, 1952; Lathrop Wells, Nevada. 12:10 a.m. Witness:  USAF
       Capt. D.A. Woods. One large, round, very bright object with a
       V-shaped contrail having a dark cone in the center, flew very
       fast, hovered, made an instantaneous 90 turn, followed by a
       gentle climb and finally sudden acceleration.

       Aug. 28, 1952; Chickasaw and Brookley AFB, Alabama. 9:30 p.m.
       Witnesses:  USAF control tower operators, officer from USAF
       Office of Special Investigations, and others.  Six objects,
       varying from fiery red to sparkling diamond appearance, hovered,
       flew erratically up and down for 1 hour and l5minutes.

       Aug. 29, 1952; Colorado Springs, Colorado. 8:35 p.m. Witness:
       pilot C.A. Magruder. Three objects, 50' in diameter, 10' high,
       aluminum with red-yellow exhaust, flew in trail at estimated
       1,500 m.p.h.  for 4-5 seconds.

       Aug. 29, 1952; west of Thule, Greenland (77' N., 75* 15' W.)
       10:50 a.m.  Witnesses:  two U.S. Navy pilots flying a P4Y-2
       patrol plane.  Three white disc-shaped or spherical objects
       hovered, then flew very fast in a triangular formation, in 2-3
       minutes.

       Sept. l, 1952; Marietta, Georgia.  10:50 p.m.  Witness:  ex-AAF
       B-25 gunner. Two large white disc-shaped objects with green
       vapor trails flew in trail formation, merged, flew away very
       fast.

       Sept. 1, 1952; Marietta, Georgia.  10:30 p.m.  Witness:  one
       unidentified person using binoculars.  Two large objects shaped
       like spinning tops and displaying red, blue and green colors,
       flew side by side, leaving a sparkling trail for 30 minutes.


       Sept. 1, 1952; Atlanta, Georgia. 9:43 p.m.  Witnesses:  Mrs.
       William Davis and nine other persons.  One light, similar to the
       evening star, moved up and down for a long period of time.

       Sept. l, 1952; Marietta, Georgia.  10:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  Mr.
       Bowman (ex-artillery officer) and 24 others.  A red, white, and
       blue-green object which spun and shot off sparks for 15 minutes.

       Sept. 1, 1952; Yaak, Montana. 4:45 a.m.  Witnesses:  Visual
       sighting by two USAF enlisted men, radar tracking seen by three
       men using AN/FPS-3 radar set. Two small, varicolored lights
       became black silhouettes at dawn; flew erratically.  One hour.

       Sept. 2, 1952; Chicago, Illinois.  3 a.m.  Witness:  radar
       tracker Turason (ground controlled approach) at Midway Airport.
       40 targets flew in miscellaneous directions, up to 175 m.p.h.
       Two seemed to fly in formation with DC-6 airliner. Total of
       8 hours.

       Sept. 3, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 99 a.m.  Witnesses:  civilian
       pilots McCraven and Thomas. One shiny, dark ellipse made three
       broad, curving sweeps in 1.5 minutes.

       Sept. 6, 1952; Lake Charles AFB, Louisiana. l:3O'a.m.
       Witnesses:  T/Sgt. J.E. Wilson and two enlisted men.  One bright
       star-like light moved about the sky for 2 hours.

       Sept. 6, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 4:55 p.m.  Witnesses:  ex-
       Congresswoman Mrs. Isabella King and Bill McClain. One orange
       teardrop-shaped object whirled on its vertical axis, descended
       very fast, stopped, retraced its path upwards, while whirling in
       the opposite direction.  1.5 minutes.

       Sept. 7, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses:
       chemist J.W. Gibson and others. One orange object or light (the
       color of 2,000' F.) exploded into view.  Seen for from 3-20
       seconds by various observers.

       Sept. 9, 1952; Rabat, French Morocco. 9 p.m. Witness:  E.J.
       colisimo, a civilian illustrator with USAF Intelligence. One
       disc with lights along part of its circumference, flew twice as
       fast as a T-33 jet trainer, in a slightly curved path for 5
       seconds.

       Sept. 12, 1952; Allen, Maryland. 9:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  Mr. and
       Mrs. David Kolb, of the Ground Observer Corps, using binoculars.
       One white light with a red trim and streamers flew northeast for
       35 minutes.

       Sept. 13, 1952; Allentown, Pennsylvania.  7:40 p.m.  Witness:
       private pilot W.A. Hobler, flying a Beech Bonanza. One object,
       shaped like a fat football, flaming orange-red color, descended
       and then pulled up in front of the witness' airplane.  Seen for 2
       seconds.

       Sept. 14, 1952; Santa Barbara, California. 8:40 p.m. Witness:
       USAF C-54 transport pilot Tarbutton.  One blue-white light
       travelled straight and level, then went up.  Seen for 30 seconds.

       Sept. 14, 1952; North Atlantic, between Ireland and Iceland.
       Witnesses:  military persons from several countries aboard ships
       in the NATO "Operation Mainbrace" exercise.  Among the sightings:
       one blue-green triangle was observed flying 1,500 m.p.h; three
       objects in a triangular formation gave off white light exhaust at
       1,500 m.p.h.

       Sept. 14, 1952; White Lake, South Dakota. 7 p.m. Witness:
       Ground Observer Corps observer L.W. Barnes, using binoculars.
       One red, cigar-shaped object, with three puffs behind it, flew
       west, then south, and then was gone.  Seen 30-40 minutes.

       Sept. 14, 1952; Ciudad Jaurez, Mexico. 11:30 p.m. to 1:20 a.m.,
       Sept. 15. Witnesses:  consulting engineer R. J. Portis and three
       others.  Six groups of 12-15 luminous spheres or discs, which
       flew in formations varying from arcs to inverted-Y's, very fast.

       Sept. 14, 1952; Olmstead AFB, Pennsylvania. Time not known.
       Witness:  pilot of Flying Tiger Airlines airplane N67977. One
       blue light flew very fast on a collision course with the
       airliner.  Note:  the summary card attached to the file showed
       completely different information.

       Sept. 16, 1952; Portland, Maine. 6:22 p.m.  Witnesses:  crew of
       U.S. Navy P2V Neptune patrol plane, visually and via radar.  A
       group of five lights was seen at the same time a long, thin blip
       was being tracked on radar.  Note:  consideration was given to
       this being USAF KC-97 airplanes involved in a refueling
       operation.  The sighting involved 20 minutes.

       Sept. 16, 1952; Warner-Robbins AFB, Georgia. 7:30 p.m.
       Witnesses:  three USAF officers, two civilians.  Two white lights
       flew abreast, at 100 m.p.h., for 15 minutes.

       Sept. 17, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 11:40 a.m.  Witnesses:  Mr. and
       Mrs. Ted Hollingsworth. Two groups of three large, flat, shiny
       objects flew in tight formations:  the first group slow, the
       second faster.  Seen for 2 minutes.

       Sept. 23, 1952; Gander Lake, Newfoundland, Canada. No time
       shown.  Witnesses:  Pepperell AFB operations officer and seven
       other campers.  One bright white light, which reflected on the
       lake, flew straight and level at 100 m.p.h.  for 10 minutes.


--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*++++++++++++++++++++++
+                             *    *  ******  ******   *       *   *****  +
+ Dean Madsen, KE0WO          *   *   *       *   **   *       *  *     * +
+ Inet: [e-mail]    *  *    *       *  * *    *  *  *   *     * +
+                             * *     ****    * *  *    * * * *   *     * +
+   Packet:                   *   *   *       **   *     *   *    *     * +
+KE0WO @ KE0WO.#NWIA.IA.USA.NA*    *  ******  ******     *   *     *****  +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31580 alt.alien.visitors:9726
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!network.ucsd.edu!ucsbcsl!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL
From: [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 92 17:50:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Lines: 23
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (KYLE CASSIDY) writes:
=as a former professional astronomer, i've seen countless things that to the
=untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like
=flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satelites, weather
=balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) as long as "hard copy"
=keeps katering to people with brains the size of walnuts i fear that these
=misrepresentations will continue, unchecked. it is a detriment to all real
=scientists and science itself that these things occur and are allowed to
                                                       ------------------
=occur.
 ------

Which do you want: real science or a pseudoscientific religion?  If the answer
is the former, then it's imperitive that these things be "allowed to occur."
All we can do in response is to try to educate people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: [e-mail] | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11908 alt.alien.visitors:9727 sci.skeptic:31581
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 07:21:08 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 33

Subject: The History of the Earth (4.5 Billion Years).
  I'm now going to be putting down somethings from a book called Letters To
You From Balaron.  Now Balaron is sort of a space type individual. He-She is
the intelligence that permiates the whole universe. He has existed a long
time and  claims to have observed the Earth in its very beginning.  Whether
or not a  person believes in him or not the information seems to be of good
origin, and it appears to make a lot of sense to me.
  First of all let me state that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, also Mars
is the same age.  Their have been civilizations on Earth for the last 3
billion years, with people coming, going and staying here.
  When you think of life on other planets it doesn't always have to be exactly
like we are here. Sometimes it is of a lighter consistency, finer
consistency and a higher frequency. Balaron made the following statement,
"Remember my dear ones of Earth, that though other worlds may seem hostile
to you, they are to the beings inhabiting them, as beautiful, loving and
refreshing as is your world to you"
  After the Earth was formed the first space people that came to it, observed
the Earth and they brought along some good type bacteria, benign bacteria
and minute plant life. In other words, small plants like mosses and lichens.
 This produced a sort of a loam soil out of the rocks and water that was on
Earth.
  For a long time the S. P. didn't come back but they sent their first colony
here finally and they set a set up a colony here. They brought other types
of animal life with them at that time, and these people were in
communication with their fellow people on other planets but their friends
who were on other planets got in inner glactic wars and they didn't come in
contact with people on Earth for quite a long time and the Earth people
became cave dwellers and eventually ceased to exist.
  Now the second colony that came here were more technically advanced than the
first colony. They seemed for a time to do well. They disappeared in a huge
seismic convulsion, which changed the face of the Earth.
End Part 1.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11909 alt.alien.visitors:9728 sci.skeptic:31582
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 07:41:55 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 10

Dear Baby Watchers: Some well thought questions have been asked about
our Baby Talkers. Sara has now aged quite a bit from her origninal talking
at 20 minutes old. She is considered to be a one year old now. It is
my opinion that more and more such cases will show up in the future.
Everybody lives before they are born here at this time. In the past it
has been the rule to erase a person's memory before they are born. Now
this is not being done in some cases. Sara continues to talk but speaks
mostly about the future. They say that we suppose she is beginning to
forget her life before birth. She lives in San Marco, Italy.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11910 alt.alien.visitors:9729 alt.religion.kibology:3946
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 08:00:46 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 9

Dear Kiboites: How in the world did I manage to to get on this new
group called Alt. religion. Kibology. It's a pleasure to be on anything
with Kibo. I once borrowed a book from Don Showen after he had been
in a study of L. Ron Hubbard and had seperated himself from Scientology.
The book was called something like the following name The First 3
Trillion Years Are The Hardest. It talked about why we cried salty tears
and the evolution of crabs or something like that. I believe L. Ron was
really on to something.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9730 alt.conspiracy:18541
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 08:16:52 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Jeff: Sorry to put this information in the Net this way but would
you give me a call by E-mail. I need your advice in a certain matter.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 08:30:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Voters: Due to the fact that I got all mixed up and didn't accept
the nomination when it was offered me, I here-by and forth-with vote
for the honorable distinguished gentleman from the world Mr. Kebo and
Babagi.
John Winston
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31583 alt.alien.visitors:9732
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From: [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:00:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Lines: 41
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

First: Paul, the Followup-to field is NOT intended to be an indication of the
subject of the article, or to otherwise identify the article.  The Subject: and
References: fields do that quite nicely.  The Followup-to field is used to
direct replies to a set of newsgroups other than that in the article to which
you're replying.  You might want to read through the documentation on your
newsreader software at some point.

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
=>As a former professional astronomer, I've seen countless things that to the
=>untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like
=>flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satellites, weather
=>balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) ..
=
=Ah, the telling words here are "to the untrained eye could be considered .."
=
=I think it's unfair to assume that people's brains are "the size of walnuts"
=just because theirs is an untrained eye.

True.  But when they prove to have an untrainable eye, that's a bit different.
For example, take the fellow who was arguing in sci.skeptic a few months ago
that the film really WAS a UFO being chased by a secret weapon.  Please.  He
repeatedly made assertions concerning the size and the velocity of the objects
in the video.  He was asked how he'd estimated these parameters.  He said it
was just "obvious."  We pointed out to him why it was NOT obvious, and
explained a number of ways that the parameters could be estimated.  He owned up
to the fact that none of these ways were applicable in this case, but continued
to insist that he KNEW the size and velocities of the objects.  That's not an
untrained eye, that's an untrainable eye.

=By the way, this "object" seems to be the one I have on a commercial video,

I don't think so.  The object under discussion in this thread is from a film
taken by the payload bay camera on a space shuttle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: [e-mail] | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9733 sci.skeptic:31587 alt.conspiracy:18543
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From: [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Date: 27 Sep 1992 19:14:48 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <z!1nw9=[e-mail]> <s#1n#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:
>One of the most interesting things about Alternative 3 is that there were
>facts reported on the show that were not released to the press untill
>over a decade later, and issues came up that seemed to be verifyable
>concerning Mars by visual evidence observable from Earth.
>
>First, the actor portraying a Prof. Girstin reported that a Russion
>missile carrying an atomic warhead had blown up on the pad in 1960,
>killing hundreds of Russian scientists. The reported mission of the
>rocket was to deliver it's warhead to Mars in the attempted terra
>forming of the planet. Life magazine stated NASA has
>openly discussed the terraforming of Mars, in its May 1991 issue
>"Our Next Home, Mars, Bringing
>a Dead World to Life"...

I guess you're not a science fiction fan.  If you were, you'd know that ideas
for terraforming Mars and/or Venus have been kicking around for decades, and
not just in some sort of secret government offices.  Check through the back
issues of _Analog_.

>It was not reported until 1991 by Russian authorities that in fact a

>There are many books on the theory of the secret space effort

Yeah.  And don't forget Richard Hoagland's (the Cydonia fanatic's) claim of
about 8 months ago that the Mars Observer mission had already been launched
(via space shuttle).  Now, that seemed a bit odd to me at the time, seeing as
how the Mars Observer Camera was sitting in a clean-room about 80 feet from my
office.  Seems even stranger now, since MO seems to have been launched a couple
of days ago, aboard a Titan-3.  Oh, and THIS time, there's actually telemetry
from the MO reaching the Earth.

>There is one thing you can be very sure of:
>NASA is charged with many duties that they do not speak of,

Such as?  I'll even help you out:  They were involved in an evaluation of
alternative energy sources about 11 years ago.  Some they thought looked
promising (e.g., coal transported as a slurry via a pipeline rather than by
rail), some not-so-promising (e.g., solar power satellites and solar thermal
generators on the ground) (well, actually, if one did some creative accounting
involving charging the costs of SPS to the space shuttle program you could make
SPS look viable).

>there is a space effort by the US that is not publicised,

Evidence, please?

>there are technologies being used that could be far in advance of what we
>consider to be possible at this time,

Evidence?  Or just a description of what these technologies are?

>and that they won't tell use about it until they feel it will somehow promote
>thier agenda. What ever that agenda is;  we don't know what it is, because of
>a trite little expression called 'national security' that has outlived
>its justifications.

Ah yes.  The fact that we don't know about this PROVES that it's all true,
because it must take a really huge and successful conspiracy to keep all this
information from us.  You forgot to mention that you might be killed for even
telling us this much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: [e-mail] | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg
From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <az#[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 20:52:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom - The Net to Get When You've Gotta Get the Net
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Dear Voters: Due to the fact that I got all mixed up and didn't accept
>the nomination when it was offered me, I here-by and forth-with vote
>for the honorable distinguished gentleman from the world Mr. Kebo and
>Babagi.

Unfortunately, Mr. Kebo and Babagi (or Mr. Kebo and Mr. or Ms. Babagi)
does not appear on the ballot as posted here several times.  Leader Kibo
does appear, as does John Winston.  In any event, to be counted your vote
must be sent to the voting booth [e-mail] before 00:00 GMT
Wednesday, 30 September 1992.

>John Winston

--
Rick Gordon      | "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail] |   --- Universal Marketing Department motto
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 15:04:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 21

Subject: Ruins Of The 30,000 Year Old City. Last Part.
  During this last part I will put down some information that R. send me in a
personal letter. I hope I am not betraying a confidence in telling you about
the letter, but didn't say for me not to devulge this information.
  I do not take the public into these tunnels as they are too dangerous, and
besides there is plenty to see on the mountains.
  Most of the labyrinth of intact tunnels which are connected to the flooded
valley called Mu are found under what is now known as the L.A. Civic Center.
 They were discovered in the 30's by an engineer named Warren Shufelt while
searching for oil and gold.
  Unfortunately, official help from the Federal Government regarding
information on the ruins of this once great subterranean city cannot be
expected. They have incorporated many of the modern buildings substructures
into the ancient underground facilites.  This has become a command center
for the elite and is one of the many well kept secrets in L.A. County. It is
a fascinating story and will be featured in the  next issure of UNICUS.
  I take people on an all day expedition, usually on Sundays. Weekday tours
can be scheduled in advance.  The total hike is about 5 miles, but we break
it up into 3 or 4 rest periods.
  This is me (John ) talking now. That's the whole story so help me Hanna.
The End.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9736 alt.religion.kibology:3953
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!usc!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <az#[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 04:59:06 GMT
Lines: 26

In article <az#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>Dear Voters: Due to the fact that I got all mixed up and didn't accept
>>the nomination when it was offered me, I here-by and forth-with vote
>>for the honorable distinguished gentleman from the world Mr. Kebo and
>>Babagi.
>
>Unfortunately, Mr. Kebo and Babagi (or Mr. Kebo and Mr. or Ms. Babagi)
>does not appear on the ballot as posted here several times.  Leader Kibo
>does appear, as does John Winston.  In any event, to be counted your vote
>must be sent to the voting booth [e-mail] before 00:00 GMT
>Wednesday, 30 September 1992.

But--is Mr. John Hyphen Winston on the ballot?  Is he related to the
famous Dr. John Hyphen David who sells those subliminal tapes that glue
the two hemispheres of your brain together, in the back pages of Omni
magazine?

(Ow, my brain's stapled to the silver page.)

I'd vote for Charles Babbage, but I'm really a better guy.  After all,
*I* can pass the Turing test, and *he's* deadsville.

                            -- K.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jcatesii
From: [e-mail] (James Cates III)
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 08:51:56 GMT
Lines: 11


First item: Why always refer to intials? Who's R. supposed to be?
            An initial means nothing to most readers. Absolutely nada.

Second    : Mu is what some claim to be a lost continent that was
            in the middle of the Pacific Ocean somewhere.

Re. the Sara-'Babytalk' item: How about a source for the info? How
about a source other than the std. 'National Examiner'?


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Cooper, English, Lear
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 92 21:36:02 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 14


 > Where can I get the Bill English file and the John Lear file?

ParaNet, where they first appeared.  There is quite a story to this, but I
will see about posting them here.  The only problem is that they have been
seriously discreited and would only serve to consume huge amounts of
bandwidth.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Anyone Heard Of Robert Hastings?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 92 21:42:03 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 11

Hastings has been on the circuit for a few years.  He wrote a paper about the
alledged MJ-12 material, completely discrediting the information.  Although I
have never met the man in person, he seems to have interesting information.  I
have talked to him on the phone a couple of times.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg
From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Spokesman for Earth: It's time to vote!
Message-ID: <vl_p1![e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 13:37:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Just Netcom
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 57

The voting booth is now open.  Votes timestamped 00:00 GMT Wednesday,
30 September or earlier will be counted.  Vote for one candidate as
the person you want elected as the single voice to speak for the
planet in communications with extraterrestrial intelligences, should
they be found to exist.

The candidates for Spokesman for Earth are:

Mikhail Gorbachev        Walter Cronkite         Bill Moyers
Xaviera Hollander        [e-mail]    Leader Kibo
Cyrus Vance              Cicciolina              John Major
Dr. Timothy Leary        Mother Theresa          Pierre Salinger
Jesus of Nazareth        Pele                    Stephen Hawking
Margaret Thatcher        Geoff Miller, American  Gene Spafford
Mel Gibson               Carl Sagan              Hilary Clinton
Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno                      Boris Yeltsin
Steven Spielberg and George Lucas                "The Pope"
Gary Stollman            John Winston            The Dalai Lama
Pee-Wee Herman           Robert Redford          Cindy Crawford
Richard Nixon            John Romer              James Burke
William F. Buckley       Barbra Streisand        Princess Diana
Rick Gordon              "Anybody but David Frost"
Dizzy Gillespie          Umberto Eco             Johnny Carson
Nelson Mandela           Anita Hill              Ingmar Bergman
Samuel Ramey             Aretha Franklin         John Updike
Frank Sinatra            Li Po                   Jimmy Carter
"Anyone in Bangladesh, Somalia, or parts of the former Soviet bloc that have
been ruined by pollution"                        Ted Williams
"someone who does something nice"                Geoff Miller, Australian
Robert Sheaffer          Captain Kangaroo        William S. Burroughs
Idi Amin                 Laurie Anderson         Mary Shafer
Harpo Marx


To vote for one candidate, send Email to [e-mail], with the line

    Vote: <Candidate Name>

somewhere in the body of the message, for instance:

    Vote: Dizzy Gillespie

or

    Vote: Mary Shafer

Votes must be timestamped between the opening and closing times to be counted,
though they may arrive at any time after the opening of the voting booth.
Votes will be counted and the results posted Friday, 2 October, 1992.

For an expanded version of these instructions, see article
"The Voting Booth" <[e-mail]> in alt.alien.visitors,
dated 10:44:06 GMT, 24 Sep 92.

--
Rick Gordon      | "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail] |   --- Universal Marketing Department motto
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rayssd!plw
From: [e-mail] (White)
Subject: Vallee's Revelations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Administrator)
Organization: Raytheon Company
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:15:46 GMT
Lines: 32

Now that Vallee's book Revelations has come out in paperback, I
picked it up.  Thank God.

Reading the book has provided a psychological attenuator for
much of the Cooper/Lear/UMMO/Pleidian/fill in your own fringe group
noise that has threatened to drown any interest I may have had in
the UFO phenomenon.

Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take
one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their
participants.  Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people
that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not
have.  Then he asks the hard questions.

For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out
the garbage?"  "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites
picked any traces of this base?" etc.

Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason
for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of
Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges.  However, the
reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation
campaign cannot be firmly grasped.

So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your
kill file is getting larger and larger.

========================================
Paul White
[e-mail]
My opinions are not those of Raytheon
========================================
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11912 alt.alien.visitors:9742 sci.skeptic:31615
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 07:22:53 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Astral Travellers: Last night I attempted to send Big Al some
telepathic information. I sent him enough Elvis Presley (songs and etc.)
to last a person a lifetime. All I got back was a bunch of sick X-rated
movie stuff. I believe someone or something is trying to pull an astral
joke on me. I am not saying its Big Al's fault though.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 07:47:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 19

Dear Ruins People: Now to answer some questions. The reason I use
the letter R. is that I had rather use the letter rather  than write
out the name many times. R. stands for the first letter in the name
Robert Stanley.  Mu is the continent that sunk in the Pacific and
is also sometimes used to denote the city that we are talking about.
Mu covered a large area including parts of coastal California but then
that gets pretty confusing.
  It been asked why I don't use some source of information other than
the National Examiner.  The article about the Piano Player using
Plieadian music was from the front page of the Wall Street Journal.
The Baby Talk information came from a tabloid magazine (September 29,
1992 Sun page 5). Backing up just a bit, the Wall Street Journal
article was tuesday, September 4, 1990. I will have to admit that some
of these, even most of these tabloid magazines put out a lot of garbage,
lies and a lot of stuff just to get you to buy their paper, but they
do sometimes put out some things that have a grain of truth in them
that the controlled media will not handle, so I sift throuh this
garbage and sometime come up with a pearl.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11913 alt.alien.visitors:9744 sci.skeptic:31616
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Dale Redd -- MP-6 Operations)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:05:00 GMT
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>Subject: Baby Talk.

(stuff deleted)

>  This last week I saw where Sara Inserra has started talking at 20 minutes
>old. The first thing that she said was to tell the nurse to take her to her
>mother because she wanted to give her a message from her grandmother (Nana).
>She told her that her mother, who died three years ago, wanted to assure her
>she was all right and that she would be waiting for her and her husband when
>their time comes.  Sara told them the following information about heaven; It
>is a wonderful place, a lot like Earth, but with perfect weather.   There
>are hills and mountains, meadows and gardens, lakes and oceans, and you can
>live wherever you want. Everyone loves one another and there is harmony
>everywhere. happiness is eternal. And God is everywhere, doing whatever it
>takes to make you happy.  It is the happiest moment of your life expanded
>for ever and ever.

(stuff deleted)

Hey John,

For months now you've been posting stuff about your former lives and all your
"Mentors'" series of lives, etc.  Now, you are saying that people die and go
to heaven?  What, do some of us get lucky the first time around and end up
in heaven after just one terrestial trip and others have to go 'round and
'round a few times with the reincarnation thing?  I'm truly confused.

Dale

(on my first life)

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:43:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 30



In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David Grant) writes:

|>
|>Believe me when I say that I am not trying to be a twit....
|>
|>But I really would like to meet some ALIENS...  Maybe take a ride on a
|>flying saucer....
|>
|>:-)
|>--


    Well I tell you what. You send me $10,000 and I will book you a
    fight aboard the Star Cruser REPTOID nex time it's in dock.


    Steve Food_for_the_Grays
--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11914 alt.alien.visitors:9746 sci.skeptic:31617
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Dale Redd -- MP-6 Operations)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:18:00 GMT
Lines: 37

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>Subject: The History of the Earth (4.5 Billion Years).

  (stuff about space-being Balaron deleted)

>  After the Earth was formed the first space people that came to it, observed
>the Earth and they brought along some good type bacteria, benign bacteria
>and minute plant life. In other words, small plants like mosses and lichens.
> This produced a sort of a loam soil out of the rocks and water that was on
>Earth.
>  For a long time the S. P. didn't come back but they sent their first colony
>here finally and they set a set up a colony here. They brought other types
>of animal life with them at that time, and these people were in
>communication with their fellow people on other planets but their friends
>who were on other planets got in inner glactic wars and they didn't come in
>contact with people on Earth for quite a long time and the Earth people
>became cave dwellers and eventually ceased to exist.
>  Now the second colony that came here were more technically advanced than the
>first colony. They seemed for a time to do well. They disappeared in a huge
>seismic convulsion, which changed the face of the Earth.
>End Part 1.
>John Winston.

The veterans of the psychic (aka Inner Galactic [sic]) wars were actually
all the senior officers of the Enterprise who unknowingly sniffed spores
from indiginous earth flowers.  These spores made them want to stay forever
on earth and live in harmony in a utopian society.  Unfortunatly, this plan
was foiled by the Captain who became angry, and discovered that anger broke
the spell of the spores.  The space people beamed back to their ship and
flew away.

(with apologys to Gene Roddenberry)

Gee, I can do this stuff too!

Dale

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11915 alt.alien.visitors:9747
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 08:42:20 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 42

Subject: Portal. Part 5.
It is supposed to look like a big shaft sticking out the side of a hill 200
feet up the side of the hill.  This is said to be due west of Sedalia,
Wyoming.  Another opening is on an Indian reservation in one of the southern
states (probubly around New Mexico or Nevada).  It appears that these people
used the trains to supply certain outposts that they had throughout this
planet.
  In checking out all of these things the people who were doing the
investigating found out that they themselves were the present day physical
people who had been born like anyone else on earth, but they had been the
same people who had lived in these cities low those many years ago.
  One of the things that they found was a room that had a front door and a
back door. Inside this small room was a viewing screen with a lot of
controls.  When they operated this device they could project themsleves back
in time and if they stepped through the back door they could walk into that
time period.  This investigting was done about the time of world war II or
thereafter.  They called the device a portal machine.   It was also possible
to stick your hand through the window of the back door and only your hand
would be seen by the people of that time period. You could have sort of a
hand writing on a wall with no body connected to the hand.  One of the
people who loved to operate this device had sort of an impish personality
and his name was Kilroy.
  In the last few minutes I received an idea from the intelligences that give
me  my direction that I'm making a mistake and I'm explaing things in a way
that my friends with similar backgrounds to myself will understand but other
poople won't. They (the space people, spiritual people, temple masters and
guardian angles) have suggested that I write thing down so that anybody can
underatand it because people in the past have explained things in the only
way they knew how.  The shepards would call their craft a star when Jesus
was born.  In the old Testament they would call their craft flaming chariots
and the american indians would call their craft flaming canoes. So please
pardon me for insulting you people who don't understand my satirical way of
saying things but I'll now try to say what the real menaning of what I have
been saying.  Back in the Old Testament of the Christian and Jewish Bible it
talks about a king or ruler having a big gathering and he was going to do
something that was not too good.  He and the rest of the people then saw a
hand with no body, writing on the wall, that warned them and told them what
to do.  This really scarred them. They changed their way of thinking and
things were much better after this happened. This is where we get the saying
that a lot of people use "He saw the writing on the wall".
End Part 5.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (JCJ)
Subject: Re: aliens are from hell
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunl18
Organization: Huh?
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:59:18 GMT
Lines: 12

>...
>I am a good clean-cut Australian catholic boy....
>
>I have read articles (all religious) which say that the UFO phenomenom's
>seen around the world are actually demons (from hell...you know, the hot
>place) who are sent here by Satan to temp people towards the sciences,
>...
>
>Damien Sawyer
 ^^^^^^

Oh oh...
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan
From: [e-mail] (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFOs and the Bible.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 00:35:09 CDT
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 12

Interesting that people keep going back to the Bible on this subject.  In
the end times, there will be signs in the sky!  I believe UFOs are the
signs.  Everybody keeps saying that these are the end times, and I am
inclined to believe it (I'm a Christian too).  UFOs could be increased
spirtual activity as the angels (good and bad) get ready for the final
battle.  Remember, there is a war going on in the spirtual realm!

[TK] - Titanium Knight

--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
E-mail: [e-mail]
system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!sgi!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: NASA Launch Calendar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:21:14 GMT
Lines: 53

Hello Everyone,

Check this out......Looks like NASA is tired of waitng for UFO's, so it
seems they are going to launch their own. Wrote Author of this Calendar,
waiting for response.


+     Here's the latest Space Calendar.  If you see any updates to the
+calendar, then please let me know.  Note that launch dates are subject to
+change.

                             =========================
                                  SPACE CALENDAR
                                September 27, 1992
                             =========================

+* indicates change from last month's calendar

+   October 1992
+     ?? - Galaxy 7 Ariane Launch
+>>>>>?? - UFO Atlas Launch
+     04 - 35th Anniversary, Sputnik Launch (1st Satellite ever)
+     05 - Progress Launch (Soviet)
+     09 - Galileo, Trajectory Correction Maneuver 15 (TCM-15)
+     10 - Draconid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 197.0 degrees)
+    *10 - Mars Observer, 1st Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-1)
+>>>>>12 - SETI Scanning Begins
+     12 - 500th Anniversary, Columbus Discovers America
+    *12-15 - Galileo, Dual Drive Actuator Test #4 (DDA-4)
+    *12 - DFS-3/Kopernikus Delta 2 Launch
+     15 - STS-52, Columbia, Laser Geodynamics Satellite (LAGEOS-II)
+     15 - Freja Long March Launch (Sweden/China)
+     20 - AUSROC II Launch
+     21 - Orionid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 208.4 degrees)

Also note that SETI scanning for ETI begins October 12th, I'll give em a
month or so until they find something. It's election time you
know.........


Rod

             BECKWITH/BECKWITH 92' A vote for me is a vote for myself!

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11916 alt.alien.visitors:9751 sci.skeptic:31621
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue
From: [e-mail] (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:23:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
[...]
>  When you think of life on other planets it doesn't always have to
>be exactly like we are here. Sometimes it is of a lighter consistency, finer
>consistency and a higher frequency.

John - does this mean anything?  Or is it just New-Age jargon that
sounds neat?  On what scale do you measure the 'consistency' or
'frequency' of life?  And can life have a darker _and_ finer
consistency at the same time?  Or do light & fine go together?

    RA

[e-mail]
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445
From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Greetings of the worst sort
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:49:42 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world
Lines: 8

To Stone Cold Gentleman:
Jeez!  Some males are all the same, whether they're Earthlings or from the 34th
planet.  You're obviously not very advanced if that's the way you still see
women and I suggest you obliterate yourself.  (A giant, moist raspberry to you)
You are neither a gentleman nor an alien.  Aliens have no use only for AMERICAN
politics.  You think the world centers on you?


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!walter!phelix!mdl
From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch)
Subject: Re: NASA Launch Calendar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com
Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch)
Organization: Bellcore
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:54:50 GMT
Lines: 41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
|> Hello Everyone,
|>
|> Check this out......Looks like NASA is tired of waitng for UFO's, so it
|> seems they are going to launch their own. Wrote Author of this Calendar,
|> waiting for response.
|>
|>
|> +     Here's the latest Space Calendar.  If you see any updates to the
|> +calendar, then please let me know.  Note that launch dates are subject to
|> +change.
|>
|>                              =========================
|>                                   SPACE CALENDAR
|>                                 September 27, 1992
|>                              =========================
|>
|> +* indicates change from last month's calendar
|>
|> +   October 1992
|> +     ?? - Galaxy 7 Ariane Launch
|> +>>>>>?? - UFO Atlas Launch
|> +     04 - 35th Anniversary, Sputnik Launch (1st Satellite ever)
|> +     05 - Progress Launch (Soviet)
|> +     09 - Galileo, Trajectory Correction Maneuver 15 (TCM-15)
|> +     10 - Draconid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 197.0 degrees)
|> +    *10 - Mars Observer, 1st Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-1)
|> +>>>>>12 - SETI Scanning Begins

|> Info Deleted

|> Also note that SETI scanning for ETI begins October 12th, I'll give em a
|> month or so until they find something. It's election time you
|> know.........


Yep.  I'll bet the "discovery" of a little ETI would do wonders
for funding........ :-)


Mike Lynch
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From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: voting???
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:08:07 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world
Lines: 2

Hi, this is to Rick.  My system seems a bit screwed and I tried to email you my
vote.  Please let me know if you received it.  Thanks.  Colleen :)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gossip.pyramid.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!news!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes
From: [e-mail] (Larry Klaes)
Subject: SETI Articles Available in EJASA Back Issues
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: EJASA, SETI
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:12:20 GMT
Lines: 50

        A number of articles about SETI (Search for ExtraTerrestrial
    Intelligence) have been published in the Electronic Journal of the
    Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (EJASA) since its founding in
    August of 1989.

        This journal appears each month on USENET's sci.astro, sci.space,
    sci.space.news, and sci.misc newsgroups.  The EJASA is dedicated to
    space education and the encouragement of authoring and publishing
    astronomy and space exploration articles by net users in a formal
    format.

        Below is a list of these SETI articles and the EJASA issues they
    are in.  The articles also contain numerous references to books and
    periodicals on the subject of SETI.  You may receive these issues
    through anonymous FTP from  chara.gsu.edu (131.96.5.29)

        "Does Extraterrestrial Life Exist?", by Angie Feazel - November 1989

        "Suggestions for an Intragalactic Information Exchange System",
           by Lars W. Holm - November 1989

        "Radio Astronomy: A Historical Perspective", by David J. Babulski
           - February 1990

        "Getting Started in Amateur Radio Astronomy", by Jeffrey M. Lichtman
           - February 1990

        "A Comparison of Optical and Radio Astronomy", by David J. Babulski
           - June 1990

        "The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical
           Spectrum, Parts A-F", by Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley - January 1992

        "History of the Ohio SETI Program", by Robert S. Dixon - June 1992

        "New Ears on the Sky: The NASA SETI Microwave Observing Project"
           by the ARC and JPL SETI Project - July 1992

        If you require any further assistance in regards to the EJASA
    and SETI, please let me know.

        Larry Klaes  [e-mail]
             or - ...!decwrl!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes
                 or - [e-mail]
                     or - [e-mail]

             "All the Universe, or nothing!" - H. G. Wells

        EJASA Editor, Astronomical Society of the Atlantic

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: voting???
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:09:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Arbiting Arguments for Planet Earth
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> Colleen Anderson writes:

>Hi, this is to Rick.  My system seems a bit screwed and I tried to email you my
>vote.  Please let me know if you received it.  Thanks.  Colleen :)

Readers are reminded to send all votes to [e-mail].  I can't do anything
with them.  Nothing interesting, anyway.

--
Rick Gordon      | "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail] |   --- Universal Marketing Department motto
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: nuts
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:15:00 GMT

I saw an alien once when I was on a midnight stroll down to Farmers loop road
from my house.  There was a bright light in the sky and before I knew it there
I was on an operating table having my nuts cut off, I was really scared but
when the operation was over I felt very good about myself.


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: Interdimensional communication...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:47:42 GMT
Lines: 16


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Andre Eichner) writes...
>Hello All!
>
>Is anybody interested oder working on interdimensional communication with
>aliens oder any other?
>
>cheers
>   Andre
>
>---
> * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node  (2:2403/10@FidoNet)

If this means what I think it means, Andre.... I'm interested.

mary
Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:5843 alt.conspiracy:18558 alt.alien.visitors:9759 alt.mindcontrol:277
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From: [e-mail] (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.mindcontrol
Subject: Re: Matrix III Review
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:47:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.flame.grammar
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) writes:
[a diatribe against the use of smileys]

I was gonna write a defense of smileys, in fact I even started it.
But it's just not worth it.  Does alt.flame.grammar exist?  Guess I'll
find out.

    RA

[e-mail]
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
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From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Reminder - vote!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:20:05 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 12

Dear all: I received a number of votes, but I believe this is less than
1% of the readers of alt.alien.visitors... at the time I am writing this,
there are just under 29 hours left to vote, and counting.

Remember: to vote reply by email to this article and add the line:

    Vote: (whoever you want to vote)

somewhere in the text. Do not worry too much if you sent already your vote,
and you didn't follow these instruction: this only means I'll have to add
the vote by hand - do not resend it. If you follow these instructions,
however, I'll have to spend less time on it. Thanks.
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:13:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: usa
Organization: Department of Computing Sciences
Lines: 9
Nntp-Posting-Host: prijat.cs.uofs.edu

It's not Fall of 1992 yet!!         ;-)

bill

--

     Bill Gunshannon          |        If this statement wasn't here,
     [e-mail]   |  This space would be left intentionally blank
     [e-mail]    |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>
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From: [e-mail] (Jean-Marc Vezien)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Interdimensional communication...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:49:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: GRASP Lab
Lines: 25
Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Andre Eichner) writes...
> >Hello All!
> >
> >Is anybody interested oder working on interdimensional communication with
> >aliens oder any other?
> >
> >cheers
> >   Andre

> If this means what I think it means, Andre.... I'm interested.
>
> mary


I smell a conspiracy.
interdimensional communication ? a new AT&T plan ????

J "Friends and Family and Aliens" M.



PS: Cattle mutilation are up.
    "Sneakers".
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!madsendean
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 5/6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:42:11 GMT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Lines: 556


        Sept. 21, 1954; Barstow, California.  1 a.m.  Witnesses:  two
        local policemen, four U.S. Marine Corps police, one highway
        patrolman.  One red-orange ball giving off sparks, and a smaller
        light, made a zigzag descent and then hovered.  Total of 20
        minutes.

        Sept. 21, 1954; Santa Maria, Azores Islands. 9:45 p.m. Witness:
        airport guard.  One 10'x5' light metallic blue, pecan-shaped
        object with a clear glass or plastic nose having a door, and with
        poles or aerials on the nose.  Humming or whining, it hovered,
        landed vertically, 50' away.  A blond man, 5' 10" tall appeared,
        spoke in a strange language, patted the guard on the shoulder,
        got in the object, hooked up his harness, pushed a button, took
        off with the object's nose pointed up, then levelled off and
        climbed vertically.  Sighting lasted 2-3 minutes.

        Sept. 22, 1954; Marshfield, Missouri. 9 a.m. Witnesses:
        private pilot J.N. Williams, E.J. Ash. A thin, translucent tan
        asymmetrical boomerang-shaped object revolved, then tumbled down
        behind some trees.  Marks were found in the dirt.  Sighting
        lasted 15 minutes.

       Sept. 23, 1954; Gatlinburg, Tennessee. 9:45 a.m. Witness:  Dave
       Owenby. Two bright silver, wheel-shaped objects flew from north
       to south in trail for 2 minutes.

       Oct. 13, 1954; Nouasseur, French Morocco. 10:05 a.m. Witness:
       weather observer, following a balloon with his theodolite.  One
       round, flat, silver object flew straight and level for 30
       seconds.

       Oct. 15, 16 and 17, 1954; Kingfisher, Oklahoma. 8:45 p.m. Fifty
       objects with illuminated bottoms were seen flying in a
       V-formation, very fast, on successive nights.  Only data is on
       summary card.

       Oct. 28, 1954; Miho Air Base, Japan. 5:32 p.m. Witnesses:  USAF
       pilots Lt. Col. O.C. Cook and Lt. J.W. Brown, on ground using
       7x50 binoculars.  One brilliant white, round-oval object climbed
       in front of clouds, brightened, turned 90 to the north.  Seen
       for 45 seconds.

       Oct. 29, 1954; Terciera Islands, Azores. 9 p.m. Witnesses:
       four Portuguese nationals. One object, shaped like a stovepipe
       with a center bulge and short wings (10' long, 3' in diameter, 3'
       wings) having concave wingtips, and grey colored.  Made a
       gargling sound when hovering, then disappeared in the glare of
       airplane landing lights.  Sighting lasted 4-5 minutes.

       Nov. 15, 1954; Augusta, Maine. 44 p.m.  Witness:  N. Gallant,
       manager of radio station WFAV. Ten gold, circular objects flew
       in vertical V-formation, straight and level for 3 minutes.

       Nov. 19, 1954; Corvallis, Oregon.  4:15 p.m.  Witness:  P.J.
       Gunn, assistant professor of art at Oregon State University and
       ex-U.S. Navy aviation cadet. One bright white light hovered
       8.5-9 minutes, then crossed 20 of sky in 3-3.5 minutes.

       Nov. 28, 1954; Manilla, Phillipine Islands. 10:50 a.m. Witness:
       one anonymous medical doctor.  One flat-bottomed, domed object
       (65-70' across, 18-20' high), bright orange with yellow discs
       attached and an exhaust trail.  Flew north, stopped, reversed its
       course during 4 minute sighting.

       Dec. 3, 1954; Gulfport, Mississippi  12:12 p.m.  Witnesses:  Mr.
       and Mrs. S.P. Mellen. One translucent grey, round, flat object
       rotated on its vertical axis at high r.p.m.  for 30 seconds.

       Dec. 7, 1954; Cape Province, South Africa. 1:15 p.m. Witness:
       weather officer, using a theodolite.  One white, semi-circular,
       flat object with a dome flew from west to east, then turned
       north.  Sighting lasted 7 minutes.

       Jan, 1, 1955; Cochise, New Mexico.  6:44 a.m.  Witnesses:
       instructor and student pilot in USAF B-25 bomber/trainer. A
       metallic disc, shaped like two pie pans face-to-face, and 120-
       130' in diameter, paced the B-25, showing both its edge and its
       face, for 5-7 minutes.  Only item in case file was summary form.

       Jan. 26, 1955; Lakeland, Florida.  6:15 p.m.  Witness:  J.M.
       Holland. A black smoke trail made a circle.  There was an
       explosion and some objects fell.  No further information in file.

       Feb.l, 1955; 20 miles east of Cochise, New Mexico. 7:55 p.m.
       Witnesses:  Instructor Capt. D.F. Ritzdorf, aviation cadet F.W.
       Miller in TB-25 bomber/trainer.  One red and white ball hovered
       off the left wing of the TB-25 for 5 minutes, then made a very
       fast climb.  Total time of sighting was 8 minutes.

       Feb. 2, 1955; Miramar Naval Air Station, California. 11:50 a.m.
       Witness:  USN Cmdr. J.L. Ingersoll.  One highly polished sphere,
       with reddish-brown coloring, fell, then instantly accelerated to
       1,000-1,500 m.p.h.

       Feb. 10, 1955; Bethesda, Maryland.  10:03 p.m.  Witness:  E.J.
       Stein, model maker at U.S. Navy ship design facility. One
       object, shaped like a small portion of the bottom of the Moon,
       with a radiant yellow color, hovered for 30 seconds.  Its bottom
       changed to a funnel shape.  Total sighting lasted 1.5-2 minutes.

       April 30, 1955; Travis County, Texas. 7:30 a.m. Witness   USAF
       Wing Intelligence Officer Maj. L..J. Pagozalski. Four black
       objects in a cluster made a whooshing sound like a zephyr.
       Sighting lasted 2-3 seconds.

       May 4, 1955; Keflavik, Iceland. 12:38 p.m.  Witnesses:  Lt. Col.
       E.J. Stealy, lst Lt. J.W. Burt. About 10 round, white objects,
       one of which left a brief smoke trail, flew in an irregular
       formation, some of them making erratic movements during the 5-8
       second sighting.

       May 23, 1955; Cheyenne, Wyoming.  Midnight. Witnesses:  USAF
       Airman/Basic I.J. Shapiro and E.C. Ingber. During a 5 minute
       period, two slender, vertical rectangles were seen low on the
       horizon, and two ovals with tops (dark, with dark blue
       illumination) flew higher.


       July 29, 1955; Columbus, Nebraska.  10:45 p.m.  Witness:  Morrice
       Raymond. Four orange flashing lights and one whIte flashing
       light moved up and down like yo-yos for 5-6 minutes.

       Aug. 11, 1955; Iceland. 11:45 a.m.  Witness:  2nd Lt. E.J.
       Marlow. Twelve grey objects, from cigar to egg-shaped, varied
       their formation from elliptical to wavy line to scattered to
       straight line to trail formation.  Speed varied from hover to
       1,000 m.p.h.  Sighting lasted 3-4 minutes.

       Aug. 23, 1955; Arlington, Virginia.  10:45 a.m.  Witness:  G.M.
       Park, using a 400x telescope. Several orange lights moved singly
       or in groups, circling and stopping during 30 minute sighting.

       Sept. 3, 1955; Bellingham, Washington.  Witness:  observer
       Saunders for Ground Observer Corps. One white pinhead moved
       slowly across 30^ of sky in 15 minutes.  No further information.

       Sept. 7, 1955; Washington, D.C. Witnesses:  two photographers,
       one plate maker for the Army Map Service (one named Smith). One
       glowing round object flew an arc for 1 minute.

       Sept. 9, 1955; near Alcoa, Tennessee.  12 noon.  Witness:  M.N.
       Dawkins, using binoculars. One brown, almost square object flew
       with a circular motion for 10-15 minutes.

       Oct. 8, 1955; Loogootee, Indiana.  4:38 p.m.  Witnesses:  R.D.
       Prather, H. Ahern. One round, silver or white object flew
       straight and level at more than 1,000 m.p.h.  for an unstated
       length of time.

       Oct. 11, 1955; Pt. Lookout, Maryland. 4 p.m. Witnesses:  B.
       Hale, A. Ostrom. One round object which looked white in the
       daylight and turned red with sparks toward the end of the 2.5
       hour sighting, made a deep roar, unlike an aircraft.

       Nov. 17, 1955; St. Louis, Missouri.  6:10 a.m.  Witness:  J.A.
       Mapes. Twelve round, flat objects, silver on top and dark on the
       bottom, flew in 4-deep formation, tipping in pitch and roll, for
       45 seconds.

       Nov. 20, 1955; Lake City, Tennessee.  5:20 p.m.  Witnesses:
       Operations Officer Capt. B.G. Denkler and five men of the USAF
       663rd AC&W Sqdn. Two oblong, bright orange, semi-transparent
       objects flew at terrific speed and erratically, toward and away
       from each other.  Observed by various persons form 4 to 15
       minutes.

       Nov. 25, 1955; La Veta, Colorado.  10:30 a.m.  Witness:  State
       Senator S.T. Taylor. One dirigible-shaped object (fat front,
       tapered toward the tail) object, which was luminous green-blue
       and jellylike, appeared overhead diving at a 45' angle,
       then reduced angle to 30'.  Object seen for 5 seconds.

       Dec. 21, 1955; Caribou, Maine. 111 p.m.  Witness:  Roberta V.
       Jacobs. One round, very bright gold, domed disc made a short
       climb, rotated, hovered and then accelerated during the 6-8
       minute sighting.

       Feb. 12, 1956; Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada. 11:25 p.m.
       Witnesses:  F-89 pilot Bowen, radar observer Crawford. One green
       and red object rapidly circled the aircraft while being tracked
       on radar during 1 minute sighting.  No further details.

       Feb, 19, 1956; Houston, Texas. 6:07 a.m.  Witnesses:  crew of
       Eastern Airlines Super Constellation.  One intense white light,
       moving 4-5 times the speed of the airplane, was evaded by the
       pilot.

       April 4, 1956; McKinney, Texas. 3:15 p.m.  Witnesses:  Capt. Roy
       Hall, U.S. Army, ret.; Charles Anderson and others; some observed
       through a 6" telescope, others through a 55-200x telescope.  One
       fat, oblong object with two lines around its middle, remained
       stationary for 6 hours.

       June 6, 1956; Banning, California.  5:30 a.m.  Witness:  Mr.
       Bierman. One thin disc with a small dome, shimmering silver,
       hovered about 100 yards away for 8-10 seconds, then zoomed up.

       Aug. 8, 1956; 20 miles south of Quartsite, Arizona. ll p.m.
       Witnesses:  attorneys W.B. Buttermore and J.W. Smith. One
       blue-white pulsating light flew fast, straight and level, for 5-7
       minutes.

       Aug. 27, 1956; Juniata, Pennsylvania.  9:55 p.m.  Witness:  Mrs.
       R.S. Pope. One bright disc with a clear dome flew vertically,
       then north.  A very cold breeze seemed to have been originated by
       the object during the 3 minute sighting.

       Sept. 4, 1956; Dallas, Texas. 9 p.m.  Witnesses:  U.S. Marine
       Corps T/Sgt. R.D. Rogers and family.  One large star, changing to
       red color, remained stationary for 20 minutes, then went west at
       200 kts.  (230 m.p.h.).  Sighting lasted 23 minutes.

      Sept. 14, 1956; Highland, North Carolina. 1 a.m. Witness:
       Scaly, N. Car. policeman O.S. Gryman. Fourteen yellow-to-red
       round objects with tremendous exhaust, flew in a Vague formation
       from southwest to east to northeast and back again, while
       swoooping up and down.  Sighting lasted 1.5 hours.

       Nov. 1, 1956; 60 miles east of St. Louis, Missouri, in Illinois.
       5:30 p.m.  Witness:  USAF Capt. W..M. Lyons, Intelligence Division
       Chief (Aerial Weather Reconnaissance Officer), flying a T-33 jet
       trainer.  One orange light with a blue tinge, flew across the sky
       for 2 minutes.

       Nov. 30, 1956; Charleston AFB, South Carolina. 12:48 p.m.
       Witness:  USAF aerial navigator Maj. D.D. Grimes. One
       unspecified object flew at an estimated 100' altitude over water
       for 10 minutes.  No further details.

       Dec. 31, 1956; Guam. 2:10 a.m.  Witness:  USAF lst Lt. Ted
       Brunson, flying an F-86D jet interceptor.  One round, white
       object flew under the F-86D, which was unable to turn as sharply
       as the object.

       April 25, 1957; Ringgold, Louisiana.  Military witness
       Robertson. Case missing from official files.

       June 12,     ; Milan, Italy. 7:30 p.m.  Witness:  G.U. Donadio,
       translator for export-import firm.  One object "big as a hen's
       egg" flew very fast, zigzagged, hovered and revolved, then shot
       up after 17 minutes.

       July 27 or 29, 1957; Longmont, Colorado. Early morning.
       Witness:  J.L. Siverly. One thick disc, ice blue, with a top
       like honeycomb (interconnected hexagons), hovered and rocked
       below the hill tops for 10 minutes.  Middle band was scalloped,
       bottom had four kidney-shaped forms.

       July 29, 1957; Cleveland, Ohio.  10:31 p.m.  Witnesses:  Capital
       Airlines Capt. R.L. Stimley, First Officer F.J. Downing. One
       large, round, yellow-white object dimmed once, crossed the bow of
       the airliner, which then gave chase but was unable to catch it.
       Sighting last 8 minutes.

       July 29, 1957; Oldsmar, Florida.  11:45 a.m.  Witness:  E.E.
       Henkins. One pale yellow fireball glided into the water and
       exploded.  Viewed for 1 minute.

       Sept. 20, 1957; Kadena AFB, Okinawa. 8 p.m. Witnesses:  S/Sgt.
       H.T. O'Connor, S/Sgt. H.D. Bridgeman. One object, shaped like a
       coke bottle without the neck, translucent and fluorescent.  Made
       four 5-10 second passes from north to south, with 4-5 minutes
       between passes.

       Oct. 8, 1957; Seattle, Washington.  9:17 a.m.  Witnesses:  two
       U.S. Army sergeants. Two flat, round, white objects flew in
       trail formation along an irregular path, frequently banking
       during 25-30 seconds.

       Nov. 6, 1957; Radium Springs, New Mexico. 10:50 p.m. Witnesses:
       one Las Cruces policeman, one Dona Ana County Deputy Sheriff.
       One round object--changing from red to green to blue to white--
       rose vertically from a mountain top.  Sighting lasted 10 minutes.

       Nov. 8, 1957; Merrick, Long Island, New York. l0:10 a.m.
       Witness:  Mrs. L. Dinner. One bar-shaped object, 3.5' long,
       giving off blue flashes, made a swishing sound.  No further data.

       Nov. 26, 1957; Robins AFB, Georgia. 10:07 a.m. Witnesses:
       three control tower operators, one weather observer and four
       others.  One silver, cigar-shaped object suddenly vanished after
       8 minutes.

       Nov. 30, 1957; New Orleans, Louisiana. 2:11 p.m. Witnesses:
       three U.S. Coast Guardsmen. One round object turned white, then
       gold, then separated into three parts and turned red.  Sighting
       lasted 20 minutes.

       Dec. 13, 1957; Col Anahuac, Mexico. 9:35 a.m. Witness:  R.C.
       Cano. Fourteen-fifteen circular, tapered discs, very bright,
       flew in a formation like a stack of coins, then changed to an
       inverted-V formation. Sighting lasted 20 minutes.

       Dec. 17, 1957; near Grand Junction, Colorado. 7:20 p.m.
       Witness:  F.G. Hickman, 17. One round object changed from yellow
       to white to green to red; red tail was twice as long as the body.
       It stopped, started, backed up for 45 minutes.

       March 14, 1958; Healdsburg, California. 8:45 a.m. Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. W.F. Cummings and one other.  A 3' round, black
       object touched the ground and then took off.  Watched for 2
       minutes.

       April 14, 1958; Lynchburg, Virginia.  1 p.m.  Witness:  USAF Maj.
       D.G. Tilley, flying C-47 transport.  One grey-black rectangular
       object rotated very slowly on its horizontal axis for 4 seconds.

       May 9, 1958; Bohol Island, Phillipine Islands. 11:05 a.m.
       Witness:  Phillipine Airlines pilot.  One object with a shiny,
       metallic surface was falling and spinning for 1.5 minutes.

       June 14, 1958; Pueblo, Colorado.  10:46 a.m.  Witness:  airport
       weather observer O.R. Foster, using a theodolite.  An object
       shaped like Saturn, less the bottom part; silver with no metallic
       luster, flew overhead for 5 minutes.


       June 20 ,1958; Ft. Bragg, North Carolina. 11:05 p.m. Witness:
       Battalion Communication Chief SFC A. Parsley. One silver,
       circular object, its lower portion seen through a green haze,
       hovered, then oscillated slightly, then moved at great speed.
       Watched for 10 minutes.

       Aug. 17, 1958; Warren, Michigan. 7:05 p.m.  Witness:  A.D.
       Chisholm. One extremely bright object shaped first like a bell,
       then like a saucer, hovered for 5 minutes, flipped over and sped
       away to the west-south-west.  Sighting lasted 6-10 minutes.

       Sept. 1, 1958; Wheelus AFB, Libya. 12:15 a.m. Witness:  Philco
       technical representative A.M. Slaton. One round, blue-white
       object flew at varying speeds.  First sighting lasted 2 minutes,
       second lasted 1.5 minutes.

       Oct. 2, 1958; Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania.  2:30 p.m.  Witness:
       naturalist Ivan Sanderson. One dull-grey object, shaped like a
       pickle with a flat bottom, flew erratically and made loops for 15
       seconds.

       Oct. 27, 1958; Lock Raven Dam, Maryland. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses:
       Phillip Small, Alvin Cohen. One large, flat egg-shaped object
       affected a car's electrical system and caused a burning sensation
       on one of its occupants.  Sighting lasted 1 minute.

       Nov. 3, 1958; Minot, North Dakota.  2:01 p.m.  Witness:  M/Sgt.
       William R. Butler, medic. One bright green object, shaped like a
       10 cent piece, and one smaller, silver round object.  First
       object exploded, then second object moved toward the location of
       the first at high speed.  Sighting lasted 1 minute.

       March 26 or 27, 1959; Corsica, Pennsylvania. 12:45 p.m.
       Witness:  T.E. Clark. One dark red, barrel-shaped object, 20'
       long, 6-7' high, descended below some trees during the 3 minute
       sighting.

       June 18, 1959; Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses:
       A. Cavelli and R. Blessin, using 7x binoculars.  One brown,
       cigar-shaped object came from below the horizon (close to the
       witnesses) ascending to 40-50^ above the horizon in 4 minutes.

       June 30, 1959; Patuxent River NAS, Maryland. 8:23 p.m. Witness:
       USN Cdr. D. Connolly. One gold, oblate-shaped object, nine times
       as wide as it was thick, metallic and with sharp edges, flew
       straight and level for 20-30 seconds.

       July 25, 1959; Irondequoit, New York. 1 p.m. Witness:
       technical illustrator W.D. Neva.  One thin, crescent moon-shaped
       object with a small white dome in the center, flew at tremendous
       speed for 5-10 seconds.

       Aug. 10, 1959; Goose AFB, Labrador, Canada. 1:28 a.m. Witness:
       Royal Canadian Air Force pilot Flt. Lt. M.S. Mowat, on ground.
       One large star-like light crossed 53* of sky in 25 minutes.

       Sept. 13, 1959; Gills Rock, Wisconsin. 1:05 a.m. Witness:  R.H.
       Daubner. One round yellow light, with eight blue lights within
       it, and then five larger red lights, flew very fast vertically
       while making a pulsating jet noise.  Sighting lasted 10 minutes.

       Sept. 13, 1959; Bunker Hill AFB, Indiana. 4 p.m. Witnesses:  at
       least two control tower operators and the pilot of a Mooney
       private airplane.  One pear-shaped object, colored white, cream,
       and metallic, with a trail under it.  Object showed little
       movement during 3 hours.  Attempted intercept by USAF T-33 jet
       trainer failed.

       Oct. (3rd or 4th week), 1959; Telephone Ridge, Oregon. 9:15 p.m.
       Witness:  department store manager C.A. Cissman. One bright
       light approached, hovered about 30 minutes, and then was up and
       gone in 2 seconds.

       Oct. 4, 1959; Quezon, Phillipine Islands. 9:25 p.m. Witnesses:
       USN Lt. C.H. Pogson, CPO K.J. Moore. One large round or oval
       object, changing from red to red-orange, flew straight and level
       for 15 minutes.

       Oct. 6, 1959; Lincoln, Nebraska.  8:15 p.m.  Witnesses:  Lt. Col.
       L. Liggett (Selective Service) and wife.  One round, white-yellow
       light made several abrupt turns and flew very fast for 2 minutes.

       Oct. 19. 1959; P]ainvjlle!  Kansas.  9:25 p.m.  Witness:  Capt.
       F.A. Henney, engineering instructor at USAF Academy, flying a
       T-33 jet trainer. One bright yellowish light came head-on at the
       T-33, the pilot avoided it and the light dimmed.  Sighting lasted
       30 seconds.

       Nov. 18, 1959; Crystal Springs, Mississippi. 6:25 p.m.
       Witness:  J.M. Porter. A row of red lights flew slow, then
       speeded up immensely.  Sighting lasted 5-6 minutes.

       Feb. 27, 1960; Rome AFB, New York. 6:27 p.m. Witnesses:
       control tower officer Capt. J. Huey and four other tower
       operators.  One light trailing a white fan shape, made a mild
       descent for 3-4 minutes. 5:55 p.m.  Witness:  Charles

       March 4, 1960; Dubuque, Iowa. 5:5

       Morris. Three elliptical-shaped objects made a slight climb for
       4 minutes.  Film exposed during sighting showed no images of the
       objects.

       March 23, 1960; Indianapolis, Indiana. 3:35 a.m. Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. E.I. Larsen. A series of balls, arranged like an
       "X" with one diagonal line, seen for 3/4 of a minute.  Note:
       little data on the case in the files.

       April 12, 1960; LaCamp, Louisiana.  9 p.m.  Witness:  Monroe
       Arnold. One fiery-red disc exploded four or five times.
       Analysis of paint samples from explosion proved inconclusive.
       Sighting lasted 2-3 seconds.

       April 17, 1960; Richards-Gebauer AFB, Missouri. 8:29 p.m.
       Witnesses:  USAF Maj. J.G. Ford and Link representative A.
       Chapdelaine, using a 48x telescope.  One reddish glow made an odd
       orbit for 2.5 minutes.

       April 25, 1960; Shelby, Montana.  7-10 p.m.  Witness:  Mrs. M.
       Clark. Five circular objects flew in trail formation, hovered
       and accelerated and made sharp turns.  Case file includes other
       reports from Mrs. Clark for previous 3 years.

       July 19, 1960; St. Louis, Missouri.  8:30 p.m.  Witness:  T.L.
       Ochs. One round, bright red light flew overhead, stopped and
       hovered, and then backed up.  Sighting lasted 20 minutes. Note:
       Ochs reported similar sightings on three following nights.

       Aug. 23, 1960; Wichita, Kansas. 3::24 a.m.  Witness:  Boeing
       aeronautical engineer C.A. Komiske.  One round object with yellow
       lights coming from what looked like three triangular windows at
       bottom.  Object was dull orange.  Flew in an arc for 2 minutes.

       Aug. 29, 1960; Crete, Illinois. 4:05 p.m.  Witness:  farmer Ed
       Schneeweis. One shiny, round, silver object flew straight up
       very fast for 18 seconds.

       Sept. 10, 1960; Ridgecrest, California. 9:50 p.m. Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. M.G. Evans. Two light gray glowing objects, saucer
       or boomerang-shaped, which swished when accelerating.  Seen 1-2
       seconds each.

       Oct. 5, 1960; Mt. Kisko, New York. 7:37 p.m. Witness:  E.G.
       Crossland. One bright, star-like light moved across 120^ of sky
       in 20 seconds.

       Nov. 27, 1960; Chula Vista, California. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. L.M. Hart. One orange-red point of light made huge
       circles and stopped during the 20-30 minute sighting.

       Nov. 29, 1960; south of Kyushu, Japan. 6:38 p.m. Witnesses:
       USAF Lt. Col. R.L. Blwlin (sp?) and Maj. F.B. Brown, flying a
       T-33 jet trainer. One white light 8lowed and paralleled the
       course of the T-33 for 10 minutes.

       Feb, 27, 1961; Bark River, Michigan. 10:15 p.m. Witness:  Mrs.
       LaPalm. One fiery-red, round object, preceded by light rays,
       slowed and descended, while her dog howled.  Sighting lasted 10
       minutes.

       Spring, 1961; Kemah, Texas. Case missing from official files.

       April 24, 1961; 200 miles SW of San Francisco, California (35'
       50' N., 125' 40 W.). 3:34 a.m.  Witnesses:  aircraft commander
       Capt. H.J. Savoy and navigator lst Lt. M.W. Rand, on USAF RC-l2lD
       patrol plane.  One reddish-white, round object or light, similar
       to satellite.  Observed for 8 minutes.

       May 22, 1961; Tyndall AFB, Florida. 4:30 p.m. Witnesses:  Mrs.
       A.J. Jones and Mrs. R.F. Davis.  One big silver dollar disc
       hovered and revolved, then suddenly disappeared after 15 minutes.

       June 2, 1961; Miyako Jima, Japan. 10:17 P.m. Witnesses:  lst
       Lt. R.N. Monahan and Hazeltine Electric Co. technical
       representative D.W. Mattison. One blue-white light flew erratic
       course at varying speed, in an arc-like path for 5 minutes.

       July 7, 1961; Copemish, Michigan.  11 p.m.  Witness:  waitress
       Nannette Hilley. One large ball flew slow, split into four after
       45 minutes.  Four flew close formation, descended and flew away
       to the west.  Total sighting lasted 1 hour.

       July ll, 1961; Springfield, Ohio. 7:45 p.m. Witnesses:  ex-air
       navigator G. Scott, Mrs. Scott, and neighbors.  One round, bright
       light like shiny aluminum, passed overhead in 20 minutes.

       July 20, 1961; Houston, Texas. 88 a.m.  Witnesses:  Trans-Texas
       Airlines Capt. A.V. Beather, flying DC-3, plus vague report from
       ground radar.  Two very bright white light or objects flew in
       trail formation for 30 minutes.

       Aug. 12, 1961; Kansas City, Kansas. 9 p.m. Witnesses:  college
       seniors J.B. Furkenhoff and Tom Phipps. One very large oval
       object with a fin extending from one edge to the center; like a
       sled with lighted car running boards.  Hovered at 50' altitude
       for 3-5 minutes, then flew straight up and east.

       Nov. 21, 1961; Oldtown, Florida.  7:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  C.
       Locklear and Helen Hatch. One round, red-orange object flew
       straight up and faded after 3-4 minutes.

       Nov. 23, 1961; Sioux City, Iowa. 9:30 p.m. Witness:  F.
       Braunger. One bright red star flew straight and level for 15
       minutes.

       Dec. 13, 1961; Washington, D.C. 5:05 p.m. Witnesses:  C.F.
       Muncy, ex-U.S. Navy pilot W.J. Myers, and G. Weber. One dark
       diamond-shaped object with a bright tip flew straight and level
       for 1-3 minutes.

       Feb. 25, 1962; Kotzbue, Alaska. 7:20 p.m.  Witnesses:  one U.S.
       Army private, six anonymous civilians.  One red light, trailed 30
       seconds later by a blue light.  Sighting lasted 5 minutes.

       March l, 1962; Salem, New York.  10:35 p.m.  Witness:  Mrs. L.
       Doxsey, 66. One gold-colored box, 12-14"x3-4", flew straight and
       level across the horizon for 3-4 minutes.
                                                      .

       March 26, 1962; Ramstein Air Base, West Germany. 1:35 p.m.
       Witness:  USAF Capt. J.M. Lowery, from an unspecified aircraft.
       One thin, cylindrical object--l/3 snout, 2/3 tail fins--flew at
       an estimated Mach 2.7 (2,000 m.p.h.) for 5-8 seconds.

      March 26, 1962; Naperville, Illinois. 11:40 p.m. Witnesses:
      Mrs. D. Wheeler, Claudine Milligan.  Six or eight red balls,
      arranged in a rectangular formation, became two objects with
      lights by the end of the 15 minute sighting.

--
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 6/6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:43:28 GMT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Lines: 619



      March 26, 1962; Westfield, Massachusette.  10:45 p.m.  Witnesses:
      many unidentified young people.  One large red ball flew or fell
      down, then went back up during 3-10 minute sighting.  Note:  May
      26?

       April 4, 1962; Wurtland, Kentucky.  0150Z. Witnesses:  G.R.
       Wells and J. Lewis, using 117x telescope.  One small object
       changing brightness, gave off smoke but remained stationary like
       a comet for 6 minutes. Case missing from official files.

       June 21, 1962; Indianapolis, Indiana. 4 a.m. Witnesses:  Lt.
       Col. H. King and tail gunner M/Sgt. Roberts, aboard a B-52 heavy
       jet bomber.  Three bright, star-like lights:  one seen; 10
       seconds later, two more were seen.  Total sighting took 3
       minutes.

       June 30, 1962; Richmond, Virginia.  9 a.m.  Witness:  13 year old
       Meadors. One red, star-like light seen for an unspecified length
       of time.  No further details in files.

       July 19, 1962. Bayhead, New Jersey. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses:  C.T.
       Loftus, H. Wilbert. Four or five lights darted about the sky for
       7-10 minutes.

       July 29, 1962; Ocean Springs, Mississippi. 11:20 p.m.
       Witnesses:  Mr. and Mrs. M.O. Barton. One bright cherry-red,
       diamond-shaped object flew slow, hovered, made fast 1/2 loops for
       l0 minutes.

       Aug. 18, 1962; Bermuda. 5 p.m. Witnesses:  owner M. Sheppard
       and chief announcer A. Seymour of radio station.  Three
       dull-white, egg-shaped objects wavered as they moved for 20
       minutes.

       Sept. 21, 1962; WSW of Biloxi, Mississippi, in the Gulf of
       Mexico. 7:37 p.m. Witness:  fishing boat captain S.A. Guthrie.
       Two objects, red and black with orange streaks, one as big as the
       Moon, and the other smaller. Arced across the sky for 13
       minutes.

       Oct. 23, 1962; Farmington, Utah. 3 p.m. Witness:  R.O.
       Christensen. One grey and silver ball, trailing what looked like
       twine with two knots in it, swerved, and climbed away at a 45'
       angle, making a sound like a flock of ducks (rushing air).
       Twenty seconds.

       Nov. 17, 1962; Tampa, Florida. 99 p.m.  Witness:  F.L. Swindale,
       college graduate and ex-USMC Capt. Three bright star-like lights
       approached, hovered and bounced, then faded after 11-15 minutes.

       May 18, 1953; New Plymouth, New Zealand. 10:30 p.m. Witness:
       C.S. Chapman, 15. One white, fuzzy, flashing light hovered and
       darted around for 4 minutes.

       May 22, 1963; Pequannock, New Jersey. 10:45 p.m. Witness:  Myra
       Jackson. Four pink wheels spun or rolled very fast from east to
       west in succession, each taking about 1 second.

       June 15, 1963; 200 miles north of Venezuela (14* 27' N., 69* 57'
       E.). 10:39 a.m. Witness:  3rd Mate R.C. Chamberlin, of S/
       Thetis. One luminous disc travelled at 1.5 times the speed of
       satellite for 3-4 minutes.

       Summer, 1963; Middletown, New York. 9:30 or 10 p.m. Witness:
       Grace Dutcher. Eight-ten lights moved at random, then in an oval
       formation, then singly, during the 1 minute sighting.

       July 1, 1963; Glen Ellyn, Illinois.  8 p.m.  Witness:  R.B.
       Stiles, ll, using a theodolite. One light, the size of a match
       head at arm's length, flashed and moved around the sky for 1.5
       hours.

       Aug. 11, 1963; Warrenville, Illinois. 10 p.m. Witness:  R.M.
       Boersma. One light moved around the sky for 20 seconds.

       Aug. 13, 1963; St. Gallen, Switzerland.  8:04 p.m.  Witness:
       A.F. Schelling. One fireball became a dark object after 4
       minutes, and then a bigger glow, a minute later, and finally
       exploded.  Note:  same witness had another, undescribed, sighting
       on Aug. 14

       Sept. 14, 1963; Susanville, California. 3:15 p.m. Witness:
       E.A. Grant, veteran of 37 years training forest fire lookouts for
       the U.S. Forest Service. One round object intercepted a long
       object and either attached itself to the latter or disappeared.
       Sighting lasted l0 minutes.

       Sept. 15, 1963; Vandalia, Ohio. 66 p.m.  Witness:  Mrs. F.E.
       Roush. Two very bright gold objects--one shaped like a banana
       and the other like an ear of corn--one remained stationary, the
       other moved from west to north during 10 minutes,

       Oct. 4, 1963; Bedford, Ohio. 3:32 p.m.  Witness:  R.E.
       Carpenter, 15. One intense oblong light with tapered ends and
       surrounded by an aqua haze, flashed and flickered while
       stationary for 15 seconds.

       Oct. 23, 1963; Meridian, Idaho. 8:35 p.m.  Witnesses:  several
       unnamed students, including Gordon. One object shaped like a
       circle from below and like a football from the side, hovered low
       over the observers, making a deep, pulsating, loud, extremely
       irritating sound, for 6 minutes.

       Oct. 24, 1963; Cupar Fife, Scotland.  No time given. Witnesses:
       A. McLean (12) and G. McLean (8).  One light moved for an
       unspecified length of time.  No further details in files. Note:
       Project Blue Book chief Maj. H. Quintanilla told the youngsters,
       in a letter, that this was "one of the most complete" of the
       unexplained cases for the year.

       Dec. 11, 1963; McMinnville, Oregon. 7 a.m. Witness:  W.W.
       Dolan, professor of mathematics and astronomy, and dean of the
       faculty of Linfield College. One bright, star-like light
       hovered, slowed, dimmed and flashed in 1 minute.

       Dec. 16, 1963; 800 miles north of Midway Island (40* N., 175* 54'
       W.). 5:05 p.m. Witness:  unspecified persons aboard a military
       aircraft.  One white light blinked 2-3 times per second as it
       moved very fast across the sky for 15 seconds.

       April 3, 1964; Monticello, Wisconsin. 9 p.m. Witnesses:  Mr.
       and Mrs. R. Wold (he was a graduate student in anthropology).
       Four huge red lights in a rectangular formation, with a white
       light above, were near the ground, tilted and flew away after 3-4
       minutes.

       April 11, 1964; Homer, New York. 6:30 p.m. Witnesses:
       physiotherapist W.B. Ochsner and wife.  Two cloud-like objects
       darkened; one shot away and returned during the 30-45 minute
       sighting.

        April 24, 1964; Socorro, New Mexico. 5:45 p.m. Witness:
        Socorro policeman Lonnie Zamora.  Watched object with flame
        underneath descend toward the desert.  Two small humanoids
        observed near vertical oval on ground.  Later watched object take
        off with a roar, go silent and fly away.  Burning and charred
        brush found at landing sight.

        May 9, 1964; Chicago, Illinois. 10:20 p.m.  Witness:  J.R. Betz,
        U.S. District Court reporter. Three light green crescent-shaped
        objects, about half the apparent size of the Moon, flew very fast
        in tight formation from east to west, oscillating in size and
        color for 3 seconds.

        May 18, 1964; Mt. Vernon, Virginia.  5:15 p.m.  Witness:  civil
        engineer F. Meyers. One small, glowing white oval split twice
        after moving from the right of the Moon around to the left.
        Sighting lasted 17 minutes.

       May 26, 1964; Cambridge, Massachusetts.  7:43 p.m.  Witness:  P.
       Wankowicz, RAF pilot and ex-Smithsonian satellite tracker. One
       thin, white ellipsoid (3.5 times as long as wide) flew straight
       and level for 3-4 seconds.

       May 26, 1964; Pleasantview, Pennsylvania. 11 p.m. Witness:
       Rev. H.C. Shaw. One yellow-orange light, shaped like the bottom
       of a ball, was spotted in a field and chased down the road for 2
       miles.

       June 13, 1964; Toledo, Ohio. 9:15 p.m.  Witness:  B.L. English,
       announcer for radio station WTOD. Three glowing white spheres,
       glowing red on their sides, moved slow, hovered and then moved in
       circles very fast, all the while making a low, rumbling sound.

       July 16, 1964; 15 miles south of Houghton Lake, Michigan. 11:15
       p.m.  Witness:  Northern Air Service pilot K. Jannereth. Four
       white lights in a stepped-up echelon formation, were joined by
       two more.  They closed in on the airplane, then rapidly slowed nd
       flew along with it for a total of 5 minutes.

       July 20, 1964; Littleton, Illinois.  4:45 a.m.  Witness:  J.J.
       Winkle. One 60' diameter round-topped, flat-bottomed object with
       a long acetylene-colored flame shooting downward, flew straight
       and level, made a half loop, then rose up.  Sighting lasted l
       minute.

       July 27, 1964; Norwich, New York. 7:30 p.m. Witness:
       Duabert, engineering supervisor.  One aluminum sphere with a
       luminous ring, remained stationary for 4-5 minutes.

       July 27, 1964; Denver, Colorado.  8:20 p.m.  Witness:  A. Borsa.
       One white ball of fire, the size of a car, climbed slowly, then
       speeded up.  Sighting lasted 2-3 minutes.

       Aug. 10, 1964; Wake Island. 5:16 a.m.  Witnesses:  aircraft
       commander Capt. B.C. Jones and navigator lst Lt. H.J. Cavender,
       in parked USAF C-124 transport plane.  One reddish, blinking
       light approached the runway, stopped and made several reverses
       during 2 minutes.

       Aug. 15, 1964; New York, New York. 1:20 a.m. Witness:  S.F.
       D'Alessandro. One 10'x5' bullet-shaped object with wavy lines on
       the rounded front part and six pipes along the straight rear
       portion, made a "whishhh" sound.  Witness' dog growled during
                                                         .
       sighting.

       Aug. 15, 1964; Yosemite National Park, California. 8:15 a.m.
       Witnesses:  E.J. Haug, of the San Francisco Orchestra and the San
       Francisco Conservatory of Music; and C.R. Bubb, a high school
       mathematics teacher.  Three bright silver, round objects, in a
       stack formation, flew very fast, changing positions within the
       formation.  The sound of rushing air was heard during the 3-4
       second sighting.

       Aug. 18, 1964; Atlantic Ocean, 200 miles east of Dover, Delaware.
       12:35 a.m.  Witnesses:  Maj. D.W. Thompson and First Pilot lst
       Lt. J.F. Jonke, on a USAF C-124 transport plane.  One round,
       blurred, reddish-white object was on a collision course with the
       C-124 from ahead and below. The airplane evaded the object.

       Sept. 10, 1964; Cedar Grove, New Jersey. 7:09 p.m. Witness:
       chemist P.H. DePaolo. Four white lights, 3-4 apart, were seen
       to the north, going west for 45 seconds.

       Nov. 14, 1964; Menominee Falls, Wisconsin. 9:40 p.m. Witnesses:
       Dr. G.R. Wagner, MD; and two girls.  Three dim, reddish lights
       flew through a 160^ arc in 5-6 seconds.

       Nov. 19, 1964; 1,400 miles east of Tokyo, Japan (34' 55' N., 164*
       05' E.). Witnesses:  unidentified military persons.  One bright
       white flashing light was travelling from horizon to horizon in 20
       seconds.

       Jan, 23, 1965; Williamsburg, Virginia. 8:40 a.m. Witness:  Mr.
       T.F. Mains. One mushroom or lightbulb-shaped object, 75-80'
       high, 25' diameter on top and l0' bottom diameter; metallic grey
       with a red-orange glow on the near side and a blue glow on the
       far side.  The object made a sound like a vacuum cleaner.  The
       witness' car electrical system was affected as the object moved
       away at an altitude of 4'.  The sighting lasted 25 seconds.

       March 4, 1965; Corvallis, Oregon.  9:23 p.m.  Witness:  W.V.
       Harrison. Three lights rose from the ground, several seconds
       apart.  The next day, an oily spot was found at the site.

       March 8, 1965; Mt. Airy, Maryland.  7:40 p.m.  Witness:  J.H.
       Martin, instrument maker for U.S. Bureau of Standards. Six
       lights flew overhead slowly for 3 minutes.

       April 4, 1965; Keesler AFB, Mississippi. 4:05 a.m. Witnesses:
       USAF A/2c Corum, a weather observer; confirmation by college
       student R. Pittman not clear from available data.  One 40' black,
       oval object with four lights along the bottom, flew in and out of
       the clouds for 15 seconds.

       May 7, 1965; Oxford, Michigan. 7:30 p.m.  Witness:  M.E.
       Marshall. One light, like a satellite, split into two parts, one
       of which was copperish color, then two more joined up.  One
       object may have been tumbling.  Sighting lasted 1 minute.

       July 6, 1965; Kiel, Wisconsin. 9:30 p.m.  Witness:  Mrs. E.R.
       Hayner. One flashing light, like a satellite, was seen for less
       than 1 minute.  No further data was in the files.

       July 25, 1965; Castalia, Ohio. 9:15 p.m.  Witness:  amateur
       astronomer M.D. Harris, 16. One bright blue star crossed 90 of
       sky in 10-15 seconds.

       Aug. 4, 1965; Dallas, Texas. 9:30 p.m.  Witness:  J.A. Carter,
       19.  One light flew fast, straight and level for 12 seconds.  No
       further data in files.

       Aug. 4, 1965; Tinley Park, Illinois.  11:35 p.m.  Witnesses:  two
       unnamed 14 year olds.  One light moved around the sky for 16-17
       seconds.  No further data in files.

       Aug. 19, 1965; Cherry Creek New York. 8:20 p.m. Witnesses:
       Mrs. William Butcher, son Harold, 17, and children.  A large
       elliptical object, with a reddish vapor underneath, came close to
       the ground, then shot straight up into the clouds a few seconds
       later.  Radio drowned out by static, a tractor engine stopped.
       When the object was on the ground, a steady beeping sound could
       be heard.  Afterwards, a strange odor was noticed, and the next
       day, a purplish liquid, 2"x2" marks and patches of singed grass
       were found at the site.  A bull bellowed and tried to break its
       bonds.

       Aug. 30, 1965; Urbana, Ohio. 10:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  M.A. Lilly,
       N. Smith, T. Nastoff. One white ball, 5-8' in diameter and
       trailed by a 2-3' light, hit the road 100' in front of the
       witness' car, bounced and flew away.  Sighting lasted 3-4
       seconds.

       Sept. 3, 1965; Exeter, New Hampshire.  2 a.m.  Witnesses:  Exeter
       Patrolmen Eugene Bertrand, Jr. and David Hunt, and Norman
       Muscarello. One large, dark, elliptical object with a row of red
       lights around it, moved slowly and erratically around houses and
       trees, while lights blinked in sequence.  Farm animals were very
       noisy.  Sighting lasted about 1 hour.

       Sept. 3, 1965; Damon, Texas. 11 p.m.  Witnesses:  Brazoria
       County Chief Sheriff's Deputy Billy McCoy and Deputy Robert
       Goode. One triangular object, 150-200' long, 40-50' thick at
       middle and dark grey, with a long, bright, pulsing, purple light
       on the right side and a long blue light on the left side.  Came
       from distance to 150' off highway and 100' in the air.  Purple
       light illuminated ground beneath object and interior of police
       car.  Driver felt heat on his left arm.  Initial sighting lasted
       5-10 minutes.  Second sighting.occurred later that night.

        Sept. 25, 1965; Chisholm, Minnesota.  9:55 a.m.  Witness:  Bett
        Diamon. Five orange lights in a row flew fast and made an abrupt
        turn during the 1 minute sighting.

        Sept. 25, 1965; Rodeo, New Mexico.  10 p.m.  Witnesses:  Dr.
        George Walton, physical chemist, and wife.  Two round white
        objects flew side-by-side, at 30-50' altitude, pacing the
        witnesses' car for 6 minutes.

        Oct. 4,       Middletown, Ohio. Wiitness:  Tucker. Case missing
        from official files.

        Feb. 2, 1966; Salisbury, North Carolina. 11:15 p.m. Witnesses:
        Mr. and Mrs. L.J. Wise. One silver, diamond-shaped object with
        several balls constantly in very fast motion around it, and much
        light.  Object hovered over the trees for 3-4 minutes, while a
        dog barked, and then zipped out of sight.  Sighting lasted 1
        hour.

        Feb. 6, 1966; Nederland, Texas. 5:45 a.m.  Witnesses:  Mr. and
        Mrs. K.R. Gulley. One yellow, lighted object at 500; altitude
        and a pulsating red glow on the lawn.  The house lights went out,
        and high frequency bothered the witnesses' ears.  Sighting lasted
        5-10 minutes.

        March 20, 1966; Miami, Florida.. 12:15 a.m.  Witness:  USAF Res.
        Maj. K.C. Smith, employee of NASA at Cape Kennedy. One pulsating
        light which varied from white to intense blue made a jerky ascent
        and then rapidly accelerated away to the north after 5 minutes.

        March 22, 1966; Houston, Texas. 1:30 a.m.  Witness:  S.J.
        Musachia. White flashing lights, and the air full of smoke.  Lit
        up witness' apartment.  Sound of "yen " heard up close
        during 4 minute sighting.

        March 23, 1966; Temple, Oklahoma.  5:05 a.m.  Witness:  W.E.
        Laxson. One large object, like a wingless C-124 transport plane;
        75' long, 8' high and 12' wide; with a bubble canopy on top.  Sat
        on highway, a man dressed in military work clothes entered, and
        it rose after about 40 seconds.

        March 26, 1966; Texhoma, Oklahoma.  Midnight. Witnesses:  Mrs.
        P.N. Beer and Mrs. E. Smith. One flashing light buzzed their car
        from the front then hovered.  Sighting lasted l0 minutes.

        April 5, 1966; Alto, Tennessee. 11:55 p.m.  Witness:  W. Smith.
        One oval object with a dark top, appeared cone-shaped when
        moving.  It made a high-frequency noise during the 2.5 hour
        sighting.

        April 5, 1966; Lycoming, New York. 3 a.m. Witness:  Lillian
        Louis. One vapor-like sphere hovered and spun at low altitude,
        shooting its exhaust onto the ground below.  Sighting of 1
        minute.

        April 30, 1966; Sacramento, California. 3:15 a.m. Witness:
        Anita Miller. One light moved around the sky for 2.5 hours.  No
        further detail in files.

        May 7, 1966; Goodfellow AFB, Texas. 9:55 p.m. Witness:  A/3c
        W.L. Whitehead. One short, cylindrical object with pointed ends
        and a yellow light at one end and blue light at the other, flew
        straight and level for 35 seconds.

        June 6, 1966; Spooner, Wisconsin.  9:30 p.m.  Witness:  Dorothy
        Gray. Two domed discs with sparkling upper surfaces and square
        windows in their tops, revolved above a lake, apparently causing
        strange behavior of the lake water during the 25 second sighting.

        June 8, 1966; Kansas, Ohio. 6:45 a.m.  Witness:  Max Baker. One
        bright silver, cigar-shaped object, as long as an airliner,
        buzzed the witness' car.  Sighting lasted 1 minute.

        June 18, 1966; Burnsville, North Carolina. 12:30 a.m.
        Witnesses:  members of a Boy Scout group, including Sterrett.
        One bell-shaped object with three flashing red lights hovered for
        5 hours and was then joined by six others.

        June 27, 1966; 400 miles east of Wake Island (19* N., 172* E.).
        4 a.m.  Witness:  Radio Officer Steffen Soresen, of the S/ Mt.
        Vernon Victory. One "cloud" expanded with a light inside, and
        then accelerated away after several minutes.

        July l1, 1966; Union, Pennsylvania.  7:45 p.m.  Witnesses:  Carl
        Wood and Charles Hawthorne. One large (100' wide, 20' high)
        bright red object with small windows and yellow lights.  The
        object emitted a humming noise, seemingly from the outside, and a
        qrinding noise which seemed to come from inside.  Observed for 1
        hour.

         July 25, 1966; Vanceboro, North Carolina. 1 a.m. Witness:
        college student James Clark. One object which changed color from
        orange to red to blue to green and back to orange.  Followed
        witness' car at high speed, then stopped and hovered over the
        car.  Rose and flew up and out of sight in less than 5 seconds.
        Entire sighting involved about 1 hour.

        July 31, 1966; Presque Isle State Park, Pennsylvania. 7:25 p.m.
        Witnesses:  Douglas Tibbetts, 16; Betty Klem, 16; Anita Haifley,
        22; and Gerald Labelle, 29. Square or hexagonal object with
        edges lit or reflecting light, came tumbling down from right to
        left.  Stopped 5-10' above the beach and settled heavily down;
        circle of spotlights at top were visible when it was on the
        ground.  Sighting lasted 5 minutes.   .

       Aug. 19, 1966; Donnybrook, North Dakota. 4:50 p.m. Witness:
       U.S. Border Patrolman Don Flickenger.  Round disc with domed top,
       30' in diameter and 15' high, colored white, silvery or aluminum.
       Moved across a valley from the southeast, hovered over a
       reservoir, appeared to land in a small field, then rose up into
       clouds very rapidly.  Sighting lasted 5 minutes.

       Aug. 23, 1966; Columbus, Ohio. 77 p.m.  Witnesses:  Broomall and
       Gilpin. One circular, luminous white object split into five
       objects and all streaked away toward the west.  Sighting lasted
       15 minutes.

       Aug. 26, 1966; Gaylesville, Alabama. 8:50 p.m. Witnesses:  Mr.
       and Mrs. Funk and their three children.  A cluster of four small,
       glowing, orange-yellow lights in a triangular formation, moved
       from east to west for 4.5 minutes.

       Sept. 1, 1966; Willsboro, New York. 2:45 p.m. Witness:  T.H.
       Ridman. One oval object with lights that flashed red and white
       and occasionally blue, travelled west, then disappeared downward.
       It returned, several minutes later, at which time a loud noise
       was heard.  The entire sighting lasted 30 minutes.

       Sept. 6, 1966; Suffolk County AFB, New York. 6:50 p.m.
       Witnesses:  Stahl and Ladesic. One white cylinder of light came
       from the east at high speed, stopped and hovered for 3 minutes,
       and then turned and slowly disappeared.  Sighting lasted 8
       minutes.

       Sept. 9, 1966; Franklin Springs, New York. 9 p.m. Witness:
       Jacobson. One solid object, larger than an army tank, with
       lights all around it, made a low humming sound and disappeared
       into woods at the end of the 30 minute sighting.

       Sept. 13, 1966; Gwinner, North Dakota. 7:30 a.m. Witness:
       Rotenberger. One silvery-grey ellipse with a clear bubble
       protruding from its top, hovered about a mile away, then landed
       within 300 yards and took off very fast.  It made a low-pitched
       whine during the 5 minute sighting.

       Sept. 28, 1966; Wilmington, Ohio. 3:38 p.m. Witness:  Clarke.
       Three round, oval-shaped, aluminum-colored objects with rotating
       rings around them.  Two remained stationary, while the third
       varied its altitude during the 90 second sighting.

       Oct. 5, 1966; Osceola, Wisconsin.  Witnesses:  several members of
       one family. One small, bright orange, moon-shaped object
       remained stationary in the northeast for about 20 minutes, then
       suddenly took off very fast to the WNW.

       Oct. 23, 1966; Southhampton, Long Island, New York. 6 p.m.
       Witness:  Mr Acquino. One object with arms in front of it which
       sparkled like an arc-light.  Traveled south along some power
       lines, then turned southwest.  Made a slight humming sound during
       the 4 minute sighting.

       Oct. 26, 1966; Cold Bay Air Force Station, Alaska. No time
       given.  Witness:  civilian control tower operator Ralston. One
       white object approached runway at 50' altitude.  Runway lights
       were then turned on, and object accelerated and climbed away so
       fast that witness was unable to use binoculars.  Sighting lasted
       3 seconds.

       Nov. 8, 1966; Saginaw, Michigan.  At night. Witness:  college
       graduate Annis. A group of lights that flashed and changed color
       hung stationary, almost touching the road, and would abruptly
       vanish during the 5 minute sighting.

       Dec. 25, 1966; Monroe, Oregon. 33 a.m.  Witnesses:  civilians and
       military persons.  Three round objects, as large as cars, gave
       off vapor, then became three bright reddish-orange lights.  Blast
       at beginning of 90 minute sighting pushed one witness against a
       car.

       Feb. 6, 1967; Odessa, Delaware. 8:45 p.m.  Witnesses:  Donald
       and Marie Guseman. One large, Saturn-shaped object--5O' in
       diameter and 20' high--with two bright lights, a green light on
       one side and a red light on the other.  Hovered motionless over
       the trees, then slowly moved north and suddenly disappeared after
       2 minutes.

       Feb. 12, 1967; Grand Rapids, Michigan. 3:40 a.m. Witness:  Mr.
       Lou Atkinson. Four fluorescent, football-shaped objects, a dull,
       almost grey luminous color; flew northeast in a very rigid
       formation for 4-10 seconds.  Made a chirping noise.

       Feb. 16, 1967; Stoughton, Wisconsin.  9:11 p.m.  Witness:  Miss
       Lynn Marsh. One light with faded edges seemed to follow observer
       in her car for 5-6 minutes.

       Feb. 20, 1967; Oxford, Wisconsin.  3:10 a.m.  Witness:  USAF
       veteran/truck driver Stanton Summer. One orange-red object flew
       parallel to truck for 2 minutes.

       Feb. 27, 1967; Grand Haven, Michigan. 8:19 p.m. Witnesses:
       Sheriff Grysen, wife and others.  Large white light, with smaller
       red and green lights seen to the sides.  Made almost
       instantaneous 90^ turn to left, shot out over road and stopped,
       moving too fast to follow.  Sighting lasted 1 hour, 11 minutes.

       March 6, 1967; Benton Harbor, Michigan. 12:01 a.m. Witnesses:
       Jerome Wolanin, assistant news director of radio station and
       former policeman, and wife.  One round saucer or oval-shaped
       object with red, green and yellow lights around bottom rim which
       pulsated red.  Flew level, east to west, and was joined by second
       object from west.  First object opened top, second came over and
       hovered for 30 seconds and disappeared.  Sighting lasted more
       than 40 minutes.  Objects made hissing sound.

       March 6, 1967; Galesburg-Moline, Illinois. 4:25 a.m. Witness:
       Deputy Sheriff Frank Courson. One object shaped like a rubber
       cup which is placed under furniture leg, with a dome set in the
       cup.  Bottom of object spun rapidly, rim pulsated red.  Approached
       witness and passed overhead at low altitude, making a hieeing
       sound.

       March 9, 1967; Galesburg, Illinois.  7:10 p.m.  Witnesses:  two
       housewives.  One object shaped like a pancake with a rounded top;
       object was pulsating red, with red lights around its rim.
       Approached witnesses and seemed to explode with a brilliant white
       light that lasted 10 seconds and almost blinded them.  Then it
       accelerated to the north and disappeared.

       March 9, 1967; Onawa, Iowa. 9:05 p.m.  Witness:  Jack Lindley.
       One bright white, saucer-shaped object, as big as a jet airliner,
       flew straight and fast to the east for 2 minutes.

       March 22, 1967; Wapello, Iowa. 10:20 p.m.  Witness:  Douglas
       Eutsler, 15. Fluorescent, solid, multicolored lights stood
       still, then flew away at high speed after 1 minute.

       March 24, 1967; Belt, Montana. 99 p.m.  Witness:  truck driver
       Ken Williams. One dome-shaped object, emitting a bright light,
       landed in a ravine.  As the witness approached, it took off and
       settled back, hidden from the highway.  Sighting lasted several
       minutes.

       March 26, 1967; New Winchester, Ohio. 4 p.m. Witnesses:  man,
       woman, three boys.  One oval object, which looked like copper or
       brass with the sun shining on it, flew from southeast to
       northwest with tumbling motion for 30 minutes.

       May 17, 1967; Rural Hall, North Carolina. 8:30 p.m. Witness:
       Red Ledford. One round, orange-colored object, similar in size
       to a small aircraft, zigzagged back and forth over a jet that was
       heading northeast for 5 minutes.

       June 24, 1967; Austin, Texas. 3:12 a.m.  Witness:  artist Ray
       Stanford. One solid, blue-white, elliptical object flew from
       northwest to northeast and stopped, seemingly in response to
       flashlight signal, for 1.5 minutes.  The object then proceeded
       along its original path at high speed and disappeared behind
       clouds. Sighting lasted 9 minutes.

     June 29' 1967; Scotch Plains, New Jersey. 1:30 a.m. Witness:
     truck driver Damon Brown. One oyster-shaped object--2OO' wide,
     and 25-30' thick--with a huge red light at each end and one on
     the bottom, and a row of blue lights along the bottom.  Circled
     m.n aircraft, hovering then moving rapidly, and then followed the
     witness' car for about 500', veered south and departed at great
     speed after 8-10 minutes.

     July 10, 1967; Lizelia, Mississippi.  5:50 p.m.  Witness:  golf
     pro Harold Washington (Capt, USMC, ret.). One object with a
     dome, the top colored gunmetal blue, the bottom the color of old
     lead.  Moved east, crossed the highway tilted upward, moved to
     the right, accelerated and disappeared into the clouds after 3-5
     seconds.  Object made a swishing sound.

     Oct. 18, 1967; Lake Charles, Louisiana. 9 p.m. Witness:  John
     Herbert. One bright, fiery ball flashed four times while moving
     east, just above the tree tops.  Sighting lasted 1 minute.

     Feb. 9, 1968; Groveton, Missouri.  4:20 a.m.  Witness:  Mr. R.W.
     Bland. One object, 100' in diameter, with concave sides having
     "portholes" in the center of each gave off yellow-green light.
     Hovered 25' above ground, then moved rapidly toward the
     southwest.  Gave off pulsating sound, like a length of wire
     whirled at high speed above the head.  Sighting lasted 1-5
     minutes.

     Sept. 15, 1968; near Ocala, Florida. 9:30 p.m. Witness:
     missionary pilot Jay Cole, flying a Beech C-45 twin-engined
     utility plane.  One light performed aerobatics for 15 minutes and
     then vanished.  A second light appeared, heading toward them on a
     collision course, made a 90* turn and disappeared.  Later, ground
     radar told them a target was following them.  Sightings lasted 15
     minutes.

     Nov. 23, 1968. Newton, Georgia.  8:05 p.m.  Witness:  Mr. Jones,
     accountant.  One oblong light, 120-150' wide.  Hovering 75' above
     the ground, it emitted a beam that lit the ground.  Radio gave
     off static, then car engine stopped. Light flew away vertically
     and car engine restarted itself.  Sighting lasted 3-4 minutes.

     Jan. 17, 1969; Crittenden, Virginia.  3:24 a.m.  Witness:  Mr.
     Roman Lupton, test facility mechanic.  Several amber lights--one
     of them blinking--in an elliptical formation, flew forward slowly
     while moving up and down, then turned and disappeared after 2
     minutes.  Made a humming sound.

-----END OF ARTICLE --------------------------------------------------
--
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11918 alt.alien.visitors:9765 sci.skeptic:31634
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!sample.eng.ohio-state.edu!purdue!yuma!lamar!arsmith
From: [e-mail] (Alan Smith)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:29:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Account)
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Astral Travellers: Last night I attempted to send Big Al some
>telepathic information. I sent him enough Elvis Presley (songs and etc.)
>to last a person a lifetime. All I got back was a bunch of sick X-rated
>movie stuff. I believe someone or something is trying to pull an astral
>joke on me. I am not saying its Big Al's fault though.

<Good-natured laughter>  I'm sorry, dude.  Truth be told, I didn't recieve
nothin'.  I was even there, from 10:58 to 11:13 pacific time.  I did my
best to stick my mind in neutral.  (Man, that's hard)  If you're still game
we can try again next week.

Big Al.  I wasn't even thinking about sex then, rare occasion that it is.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:01:46 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 29

Subject: Death Valley Space People Gold.
  Some information came to me lately about an ancient city in the Death Valley
area. It seems that a man was checking out an old mine when the bottom of
the shaft gave way and he wound up in a tunnel that turned out to be a
natural tunnel that went for more than 20 miles. I just got back from the
National Geological Survey in Menlo Park, Calif. and purchased a map called
Death Valley National Monument and Vicinity, California; Nevada
N3530-W11615/110X90 1972, revised 1977 and the information given me does
make sense. The mine that he was in was near Wingate Pass and the tunnel
extends north in the Panamint Mountains. These are the prospectors words;
The tunnel was like a big cave. It leads all through a great underground
city; through the treasure vaults, the royal palace and the council
chambers, and it connects to a series of beautiful galleries with stone
arches in the east slope of the Panamint Mountains.  Those arches are like
great big windows in the side of the mountain and they look down on Death
Vallley. They're  high above the valley now, but we believe that those
entrances in the mountain side were used by the ancient people that built
the city.  They used to land their boats there. Many years ago Death Valley
was full of water up to the 4,500 feet level of the mountains and the people
living there would bring their boats to the arches and walk inside the
mountain.
  We found a very large room that had about one hundred dead armed men
standing around the wall.  Their spears and shields were made of gold.
There was also a large table that had many noble looking people around it.
At the end of this table their was a statue that was made of solid gold.
It's height was established as being 89 feet and 6 inches. We used a textant
to determine it's height.
End Part 1.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!jkc3
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:58:13 EDT
From: Joe Carlson <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS!
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 1

Dial 1-900-IAMGULLIBLE !!
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495
From: [e-mail] (Christopher James Rogers)
Subject: New Planetoid
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:18:08 GMT
Lines: 9

Hey could anybody give me any info about that new planetoid that was supposedly
discovered recently?  I asked in sci.astro, but they politely told me to read
Time.  I would, but I don't have access to it and I don't have the time to
find it in our library.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanx.

Later!
C J Rogers


Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9769 sci.skeptic:31636 alt.conspiracy:18563
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:34:10 GMT
References: <z!1nw9=[e-mail]> <s#1n#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 23


>>[e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:
>>there is a space effort by the US that is not publicised,
>[e-mail] (Carl J Lydick) writes:
>Evidence, please?

... well, I haven't followed this discussion, but of course there is a
classified space effort, with launches from Vandenburg, and the
occasional shuttle mission (for the shuttle missions, the fact that
they occur is not classified, but what they are is.)

>>there are technologies being used that could be far in advance of what we
>>consider to be possible at this time,
>Evidence?  Or just a description of what these technologies are?

...up until quite recently, these included stealth technology, and for
instance still includes imaging hardware.  See Burrow's "Deep Black"
for a good discussion on this subject.

   I'm not taking sides on the actual discussion, but I think you're
answering too broadly...

Charles
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!nstn.ns.ca!dragon.acadiau.ca!ace.acadiau.ca!003316g
From: [e-mail] (STEPHEN EDWARD ELLIOTT GREGORY)
Subject: Re: aliens are from hell
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 13
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: liblab-36
Organization: Acadia University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:47:22 GMT

>...
>I am a good clean-cut Australian catholic boy....
>
>I have read articles (all religious) which say that the UFO phenomenom's
>seen around the world are actually demons (from hell...you know, the hot
>place) who are sent here by Satan to temp people towards the sciences,
>...
>
>Damien Sawyer

Tempt people towards the sciences !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The scientific community often times seems more inclined to disbalieve in
Aliens buzzing earth then to use it as ammo for scientific theories.
Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:5846 alt.conspiracy:18566 alt.alien.visitors:9771 alt.mindcontrol:278 alt.flame:44273 soc.women:36810
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!shearson.com!newshost!rens
From: [e-mail] (Rens Troost)
Subject: Mindless Flame (Was: Re: Matrix III Review)
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Sun, 27 Sep 1992 02:10:17 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Rens Troost)
Organization: Lehman Brothers
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:59:34 GMT
Lines: 40


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) writes:

   You don't need to apologize to people for upper cases. No one can shout
   in writing. Now, that people sometimes create their own realities... and
   hear you shouting... that you have to accept! :-)
   The oh-so-touchy and oh-so-polite and oh-so-etc. people on the internet
   have created things like _word-to-be-emphasized_ in order to prevent
   their oh-so-sensitive eyes being stressed by contiguous upper cases.
   But: there is no such thing as underscoring a blank in English, it only
   comes from computer languages, so nobody should try to enforce it, in
   my opinion. And: I would ask _those_ oh-so-culture-loving guys on the net,
   how the heck have English-language writers managed to create very ex-
   pressive works without facilities like empty underscores, "smilies" (like
   the one I've used at the end of the above paragraph...) to make sure the
   readers know where they should smile and where they shouldn't...?

Gee. You have used a simile. You seem to have trouble with the concept
of paragraph, though - I give you a B- and send you  back to 4th grade
english.

Please follow up to the newly created group
alt.puling.infant.eat.hot.lead



PS-

I have not used any smileys, similes,  or underlines in this message -
now you tell me whether I was being sarcastic or not.

-Rens


--
  __   ___  ,    __
 /__) /__  /| / (    |  J. Laurens Troost    Lehman Brothers Technical Services
/  \ (___ / |/ __)   |  *Opinions expressed herein are mine. Mine, I tell you!*
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From: [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Date: 29 Sep 1992 02:58:43 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew) writes:
>
>>>[e-mail] (Jeff Papineau) writes:
>>>there is a space effort by the US that is not publicised,
>>[e-mail] (Carl J Lydick) writes:
>>Evidence, please?
>
>... well, I haven't followed this discussion, but of course there is a
>classified space effort, with launches from Vandenburg, and the
>occasional shuttle mission (for the shuttle missions, the fact that
>they occur is not classified, but what they are is.)

While we might not know what's in the payloads, there's really no way to hide a
launch.  Not even from Vandenburg.  Then there's the fact that there are
tracking stations scattered all over the globe, not all of them belonging to
the United States.

>>>there are technologies being used that could be far in advance of what we
>>>consider to be possible at this time,
>>Evidence?  Or just a description of what these technologies are?
>
>...up until quite recently, these included stealth technology, and for
>instance still includes imaging hardware.  See Burrow's "Deep Black"
>for a good discussion on this subject.
>
>   I'm not taking sides on the actual discussion, but I think you're
>answering too broadly...

Answering broadly?  What answers?  I asked questions (not that I expected
answers from the supporter of this particular conspiracy theory).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: [e-mail] | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Pat Monardo)
Subject: Re: nuts
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 04:00:56 GMT
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>I saw an alien once when I was on a midnight stroll down to Farmers loop road
>from my house.  There was a bright light in the sky and before I knew it there
>I was on an operating table having my nuts cut off, I was really scared but
>when the operation was over I felt very good about myself.
>
>

was this the night of the Rocky Mountain Oysters special at the
Farmers Loop Restaurant?

--
-- Pat Monardo
-- [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Joseph Good)
Subject: Dreams of encounters...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:34:37 GMT
Lines: 34


Okay, as a disclaimer - I am not obcessed with this alien discussion, but do
find it very interesting at times.

I have a question about the signifigance of dreams about encounters with the
greys.

The dreams were completely weird.  I've always enjoyed having weird dreams and
nightmares because of how weird they are, and I'm always aware they they are
dreams.. until a few weeks ago.

The aliens appeared out of a swirling vortex that appeared next to my bed,
then they communicated to me through thoughts...  and didn't say much.
Apparently they were testing how their equipment affected me.  The test
only lasted a few minutes, but scared the #&$( out of me.  I couldn't move..
wake up.. speak.. yell.. or anything.

Personally, I am contributing this to an actuall nightmare, not an encounter,
but my question is:  Are dreams any sign of actual abductions??

Just curious...

Joseph

--

Joseph Good
+-------------------+ - More than just a band....
| Green Dot Brigade | - It's a whole damn army of dots...
+-------------------+ - And we've declared war on the 7-Up dots...

[e-mail] (NeXT mail welcome!!) (main account)

[e-mail]  (Just plain ol' Unix) (seldom used)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: Mars probe?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Mars
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: lonestar.utsa.edu
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
References: <0_![e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:58:35 GMT
Lines: 9


There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program
"Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously
lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in
1989 or 90.  The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons,
but their was also a second large obejct in the photo....


Simon
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From: [e-mail] (James Cates III)
Subject: Re: Query and Introduction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
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References: <[e-mail]> <Tony.13@>
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 05:38:19 GMT
Lines: 10


This sounds an awful lot like ball lightning. Ball lightning is a known
atmospheric phenomena...the 'balls' are not usually as large as you
describe, however.

You should have no trouble finding many references to ball lightning.
You might ask at a local College, University, or even a local
meteorologist.


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From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Another reminder - vote!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:06:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 12

Dear all: I received a lot of votes overnight, but if anybody still has
to vote, please remember that time is running short... 16 hours left
as I am writing, probably 10 or less when you read it.

Remember: to vote reply by email to this article and add the line:

    Vote: (whoever you want to vote)

somewhere in the text. Do not worry too much if you sent already your vote,
and you didn't follow these instruction: this only means I'll have to add
the vote by hand - do not resend it. If you follow these instructions,
however, I'll have to spend less time on it. Thanks.
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Do Not Move
Keywords: Stay Where You Are, You Will Not Be Harmed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:04:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Lines: 38

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>This is the voice of Universal Control.  I am Kstaa', leader of
>the Pleadean Imperial Forces.  We are here to integrate your
>society into ours.  Your meddling in other people's affairs will
>no longer be tolerated.  Our Star Destroyers are currently orbiting
>Gth'ik'woof, the planet you call "Venus".  We have decided to
I know something *you* don't know. ;>
>to warn your people of our coming.  It is no secret that we are very
>similar to these "Borgs".  This show has angered us, and we will not
>tolerate your society any longer.  Therefore, your society will be
>assimilated now, instead of later.
Commo Officer, Play the Robotech Soundtrack. Song: "We Will Win" on infinite
loop.
Now surrender or I'll launch the Yamato--er, Argo at you.
>Now is the time for total assimilation.
NOT!!
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Kstaa'
>
>Pleadean Imperial Forces
Grand Admiral Jorgen Tacitus
Terran Navy
Fortress Abowaku
LotsofotherripoffsfromSF Department



<SIGH> I miss the good old days when it was just Desslok..... :>
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
[e-mail] |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 06:28:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Question Askers: Good questions. I'm late and have to go to work.
I will hope to answer you later. Big Al I'll try it again with you. This
time I'm going to blast you out of bed with some elementals.
John Winston.
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Kill File (Help!)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:39:09 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu
Lines: 10

Help!  How do I initiate a kill file?  I'm on a VAX system, and I can't
seem to get my kill file to work... and believe me, there are a lot of
files I don't want to browse through on this group!  Anyone out there
have a clue?

Thanks, in advance

Kellie
(internet::[e-mail])

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From: [e-mail] (Nick Sabadosh)
Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters...
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net Noise owner)
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:20:29 GMT
Lines: 28

Since you started the thread, I'll join in.  I also had an odd dream, about a
week ago.

In it, I was sitting a table with two gentlemen I didn't know.  They were
discussing government UFO coverups, and that they thought it was all quite
silly and not true, that there were no actual UFO's, etc, etc  At that point,
I chimed in, referring to something I'd read here I think and using it as
support for the validity of the UFO coverup idea. (This in itself is a bit odd,
since I'm quite skeptical of that myself....)

Right at that point, I awoke
suddenly and could feel my upper leg tingling, as if it had 'fallen asleep'.
I was spooked though, because my immediate thought, weird as it is, was that
it was caused by aliens...trying to silence me, or keep me from thinking
thoughts like that.  This is not something I go around claiming, mind you.
Anyway, I was wide awake at this point, but experienced that kind of paralysis
you get when you wake right from REM sleep.  I couldn't move, but my eyes were
open.  Needless to say, this added to my uneasiness with the situation.

I tried to call to my wife, simply to ask her to roll me over so my leg would
stop tingling...but all that came out was a muffled groan.  I tried a few more
times, and eventually she heard me and shook me.  She said she thought I was
talking in my sleep, and didn't know if it was good or bad and whether she
should wake me up.  The paralysis left me then, and my leg felt better.

SOrry this was a book, but it was such an odd experience, I thought I'd share it...

Nick
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From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
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Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:00:21 GMT


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bill Gunshannon) writes:

|>
|>It's not Fall of 1992 yet!!         ;-)
|>
|>bill


    Wanna bet?   It's been fall now for 6 days.


    Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids
--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: Vote for Rick Gordon, Spokesman for Earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:11:10 GMT
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In article <p19n9m=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes...


    I'll cast my vote for Rick Gordon
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From: [e-mail] (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars probe?
Keywords: Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:44:20 GMT
References: <0_![e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Edinburgh University
Lines: 14

[e-mail] (Simon E. Booth) writes:


=>There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program
=>"Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously
=>lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in
=>1989 or 90.  The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons,
=>but their was also a second large obejct in the photo....

Mars?

=>Simon

FoFP
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:44:37 GMT
References: <z!1nw9=[e-mail]> <s#1n#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 23


    [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick) writes:
    While we might not know what's in the payloads, there's really
    no way to hide a launch.  Not even from Vandenburg.

... knowing that something is going up doesn't tell you what
it is.  If you see a Titan-3 launch something, does that tell
you *anything* about what's inside?  The reason for classified
payloads is precisely so we won't know.   If we don't know, we're
allowed to guess (I looked it up.)

    Then there's the fact that there are tracking stations
    scattered all over the globe, not all of them belonging to the
    United States.

... yup, and seeing something on radar doesn't tell you anything about
what is is.

    Answering broadly?  What answers?

   Come now.  You replied.  We all saw it.  Don't be obtuse.

Charles
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From: [e-mail] (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and the Bible.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:49:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Edinburgh University
Lines: 19

[e-mail] (Titanium Knight) writes:

>Interesting that people keep going back to the Bible on this subject.  In
>the end times, there will be signs in the sky!  I believe UFOs are the
>signs.

No, Coca Cola neon signs are what was being referred to.

>Everybody keeps saying that these are the end times, and I am
>inclined to believe it (I'm a Christian too).  UFOs could be increased
>spirtual activity as the angels (good and bad) get ready for the final
>battle.  Remember, there is a war going on in the spirtual realm!
>

We should ship 'em some arms. Where there's a war, there's a profit.

>[TK] - Titanium Knight

FoFP
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: UFOs and the Bible.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 17:36:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Forging Alliances in the New Age
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> M Holmes writes:

>[e-mail] (Titanium Knight) writes:
>
>>Everybody keeps saying that these are the end times, and I am
>>inclined to believe it (I'm a Christian too).  UFOs could be increased
>>spirtual activity as the angels (good and bad) get ready for the final
>>battle.  Remember, there is a war going on in the spirtual realm!
>>
>
>We should ship 'em some arms. Where there's a war, there's a profit.

But, as I'm sure you'll agree, it would be a profit without honor.

>FoFP

--
Rick Gordon      | "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail] |   --- Universal Marketing Department motto
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From: [e-mail] (David Jones)
Subject: Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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 ############################################################################
 #     The following is sent as a public service announcement and is for    #
 #   informational purposes only.  I am not receiving any renumeration for  #
 #     helping to inform the public in this regards.  I will be happy to    #
 #          answer any questions about the below that you may have.         #
 #                                                                          #
 #    Thank you.  David W. Jones   [e-mail]   OR   uunet!wrs!davidj   #
 ############################################################################

          The Society for the Advancement of Civilization Presents:

             Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message

                 Saturday, October 10, 1992 10:00am to 9:30pm
                 Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley
                 At Gayley Road across from the Greek Theater

A public forum on the legitimate scientific  inquiry  into  one  of  the  most
controversial  issues  facing our planet today. Why does extraterrestrial con-
tact have value for the people of  Earth?  There  are  increasing  numbers  of
aware,  articulate  people  from  a variety of professional and cultural back-
grounds who have been contacted by extraterrestrials. Come, hear and  meet  an
impressive   group  of  research  experts  and  persons  who  have  had  close
encounters.

R. Leo Sprinkle, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of Psychology, University of  Wyom-
ing, Laramie, where he was director of counseling services, and founder of the
Institute for UFO Contactee Studies, is an early investigator of  hundreds  of
Close  Encounter  cases beginning in 1955. He served with APRO as a consultant
for psychology and is the principle investigator of the John Salter  case.  He
is the organizer of the Annual Rocky Mountain UFO Conference.

James A. Harder, Ph. D., Professor Emeritus  of  Engineering,  U.C.  Berkeley,
pioneered  the  use  of  hypnosis in close-encounter cases since 1962, and the
study of E.T./human interactions and their influences on this planet. He  will
describe  emerging information about the characteristics of advanced civiliza-
tions and how this information could help inspire us to a more hopeful view of
Earth.

John Salter, Ph. D., Professor of Indian Studies Univ. of North  Dakota,  will
lead  several people with close encounter experiences in a round table discus-
sion. Dr. Salter will also tell of  his  own  continuing  encounters.  He  was
featured  in  the May 1991, CBS prime time special "Visitors from the Unknown"
He teaches a very popular university  course  which  accepts  the  reality  of
extraterrestrial contact.

Richard F. Haines, Ph.D., Psychologist and research scientist. His interest in
discovering  the  core  nature  of  UFO phenomenon spans 20 years with special
interest in sightings by pilots, photo analysis, and CE4. He recently  founded
and co-directs the Joint American- Soviet Aerial Anomaly Federation.

Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D., A psychologist in private practice. He has  assisted
in the understanding and the integration of ET experiences into everyday life.
He will speak about the "mind field" of new information developing  for  those
with extraterrestrial close encounters and for the Society of Planet Earth.

Cathy W., A California person with some very interesting close encounters, and
whose    events    were    thoroughly    recorded    by    a    well-    known
researcher/investigator. Her experiences were shown  in  a  documentary  on  a
prime-time NBC program.

A special two hour question and answer period in the evening will be hosted by
the participants in the above program.

A special multi-media presentation of ET close encounter experiences will also
be presented.

Doors open at 9:15 am. Events begin at 10:00 am and end at 9:30  pm.  Cost  is
$30.00.  Free  educational  video  with  reservations received by October 6th,
1992.

Seating is limited, so please reserve your seats in advance. Priority is given
to  those  who  have  paid  advance reservations & who have arrived by 9:45am.
Tickets will be sold at the door. Please no video/tape recording.  Videos  and
tapes will be made available to attendees at the forum.

=============================================================================

            Extraterrestrial Contact: The Meaning and the Message

               Saturday, October 10, 1992, 10:00 am to 9:30 pm
                 Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley

An open forum presented by the Society for the Advancement of Civilization,  a
not  for  profit corporation formed to study extraterrestrial civilizations as
they may pertain to the future of Earth and to create an environment  for  all
those  interested  in  extraterrestrial  contact  to  share  with others their
experiences and viewpoints in an open and non-threatening atmosphere.

Directions: From hiway 80, take the University  Avenue  turnoff  in  Berkeley,
east,  toward  the hills. Turn left on Oxford, go two blocks and turn right on
Hearst Avenue. The parking garage is 6 blocks up Hearst. Turn right on  Gayley
Road  (it  will  be La Loma to your left) and go about two blocks, across from
the Greek Theater, on your right, a round short building.

We have reserved 100 spaces at the parking garage (marked H above) located  at
the  corner  of  La Loma Avenue and Hearst Avenue, on a first-come first-serve
basis. Parking in this garage will be $3.00 for the full day. Show the  atten-
dant  this flyer, or tell them that you will be attending the Extraterrestrial
Contact symposium. We encourage everyone to bring a bag lunch and eat with one
another  on  campus  in  one of the many tree lined grassy park areas. We will
provide a map of local restaurants for your convenience for those who wish  to
eat out.   For more information, call  [phone]  or [phone] after
October 1st.

Sponsored by The Society for the Advancement of Civilization & The First  Sun-
day Study Group

Please reserve ________ seats at $30.00 each
(tickets and your free educational video to be picked up at the door) for:

Name ___________________________ Street _________________________________________

City ___________________________ Zip __________ Phone ___________________________

Make checks payable to: Berkeley Symposium
Checks must be received by October 6th, 1992

Send to: Berkeley Symposium
         P.O. Box 9073
         Berkeley, CA 94709-9073

------------------------------------- EOF --------------------------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Christopher James Rogers)
Subject: Re: Mars probe?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Mars
Organization: PFF
References: <0_![e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:07:39 GMT
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (M Holmes) writes:
>[e-mail] (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>
>
>=>There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program
>=>"Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously
>=>lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in
>=>1989 or 90.  The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons,
>=>but their was also a second large obejct in the photo....
>
>Mars?
>
>=>Simon
>
>FoFP

Sorry, but no.  It was not Mars.  The object was long and cylindrical.  As of
yet, it is not explained.





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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:13:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 28

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew) writes:
>
>    [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick) writes:
>    While we might not know what's in the payloads, there's really
>    no way to hide a launch.  Not even from Vandenburg.
>
>... knowing that something is going up doesn't tell you what
>it is.  If you see a Titan-3 launch something, does that tell
>you *anything* about what's inside?  The reason for classified
>payloads is precisely so we won't know.   If we don't know, we're
>allowed to guess (I looked it up.)

I would be the first to second what Charles said here, but remember,
the crux of what most of the secret space program conspiracies are
built on is ANTI-GRAVITY TECHNOLOGY, and these craft HAVE BEEN SITED in
the US and in Australia at Pine Gap, coming out of underground bases.

If you can launch without a fireball, you can do just about anything covertly
that you wish to, assuming it's within your capability to leave the
atmouspher of the earth...

Remember, we were seeing progress reports in the papers and press through
the late 1950's, then nothing concerning antigravity research. It is
entirely possible that these devices are being used today for projects
we know nothing about. This would also indicate that we have a secret
science program that they are not teaching in the universities...

Jeff-
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Replies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: various
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:36:08 GMT
Lines: 67



Hello all,

This group is so interesting, and there are so many people I'd like to write
to, but I just haven't got the time. I've decided instead to put a group
reply on the net. I've never seen this kind of thing before on the net, so am
a little apprehensive...

DAMIEN SAWYER
I'm just beginning to wonder if I haven't been taken for a ride. If so, hats
off to you, Damien.
     Why would you otherwise call yourself Damien Sawyer *and* of Samien
Dawyer?
Well, it worked, and I bought it. Good to get us going again.

SPRING HEEL JACK replies. Thank you all. I've had Email replies too. All
kinds of information. Some of the people mentioned Mothman too. There may be
a parallel. Some people seemed to think he was only fiction, but the main
opinion was that police reports from London of 1837/38 confirm that there was
a character who was chased by police, and at one time he jumped over mounted
soldiers in order to escape. Metallic type of clothes under his long cloak,
metal lamp strapped to his chest, from which he could direct a kind of gas
which made people unconscious. Very unusual features.

JOHN WINSTON
I heard exactly the same story of Heaven from a Swiss lady, who was in a coma
for some weeks. I personally don't think it's Heaven, maybe a higher plane..

DALE REDD
I'd be extremely surprised if this really were your first time on earth. Have
you ever looked at books dealing with regression?

DEAN MADSEN
Thanks for the Blue Book Unknowns list.

COLLEEN ANDERSON
I find it best to ignore the immature nonsense. Showing your annoyance on the
net may be just what they want, although it's understandable!

"MARY"
I had a good laugh at your reply to Andre's posting

RA  Free Radical
I actually understood what John meant with his "lighter consistency...lighter
frequency". (It's also one of the possible explanations for ghosts.) And if
it *is* New Age jargon, then at least other people understand it too, and
it's not "just to sound neat".

ALIN-ANDREI CARSTEANU
It's often a good idea to vent your anger on Email in case someone is even
better at sarcasm than you. (See reply to Colleen, above)

(RENS TROOST)
("English" is spelt with a capital letter)

CLAUDIO CAVELLI and RICK GORDON
Thanks for all the work

JOHN CORMAC DAVIS
THANKS for brightening up my Monday.

What will the rest of the week bring?         Cheers,    Paul.

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9792 alt.activism:33184
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Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:42:17 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.activism
Subject: Role-playing Games
Lines: 8

  I am putting together a Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Game.
 If you are interested or want more information, write to me and I'll get back
 to you as soon as possible.



Thank You,
 Sharky
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations
Message-ID: <hw+pl2#[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 19:12:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 51

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (White) writes:
>Now that Vallee's book Revelations has come out in paperback, I
>picked it up.  Thank God.
>
>Reading the book has provided a psychological attenuator for
>much of the Cooper/Lear/UMMO/Pleidian/fill in your own fringe group
>noise that has threatened to drown any interest I may have had in
>the UFO phenomenon.

Too broad-minded and open for you, emm?
>
>Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take
>one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their
>participants.  Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people
>that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not
>have.  Then he asks the hard questions.
>
>For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out
>the garbage?"  "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites
>picked any traces of this base?" etc.

I have not read the book, but seems like we KNOW there is a base there,
so these arguments seem fairly beyond reason...
It's really just a matter of  WHAT are they doing there, and what
kinds of vehicles are test flown there?

>Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason
>for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of
>Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges.  However, the
>reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation
>campaign cannot be firmly grasped.

Of course there is a lot of disinformation regarding these issues. It is
fairly common knoledge that the ONI and CIA are constanly feuding and
that Cooper has Navy connections and Lear has CIA connections, but it
is also that wisps of the truth slip out along with the disinformation...
JV didn't come up with this on his own, it's well known.
>
>So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your
>kill file is getting larger and larger.

I have said this before to several people and will repeat it here:

JV is not main-stream. He is a loaner, predisposed to many ideas that
the community of UFO researchers would not always agree with, so keep
that in mind when you read his books. He is highly opinionated, and
could quite possibly be very misguided in his conclusions...

Jeff-


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Dr. James Harder in Berkely Next Month
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 19:22:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 28

I just remembered that there is going to be a symposium on ET Contact
in Berkely, CA on Oct. 10th. I forget all the details, and can't find
the original post that was made here several weeks ago. If some
one has it, please repost.

My friend just called and reminded me to send in the $30 before the
6th, so that I get a free educational video out of the deal. I think
the door price is higher too, but not sure.
I didn't get a phone # from her, but the address to send money is :

Berkely Symposium
ExtraTerrestrial Contact
P.O Box 9073
Berkely, CA 94709-9073


I remember the original flyer said to bring a sack lunch so that we could
all socialize and connect at lunch time on the grounds. I don't
remember the exact location for the conference either, but it starts at
10am and there is limited parking, so get there early for free parking.

Hope someone can post more details. Dr. Harder is one of the most interesting
researchers I have ever had the opportunity to listen to, and I am looking
forward to hearing what he has to say about his latest findings.

Jeff-


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From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: It's almost time to stop.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:50:10 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Lines: 5

Dear all: the voting period ends at 00:00 GMT, Wednesday 30 September.
That is, in a few hour's time. Votes sent before midnight (GMT) will
be counted when they arrive, but votes sent after midnight will be
discarded. Results will be announced in a few days' time to make sure
that any delayed votes will be received.
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Kill File (Help!)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:55:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Help!  How do I initiate a kill file?  I'm on a VAX system, and I can't
> seem to get my kill file to work... and believe me, there are a lot of
> files I don't want to browse through on this group!  Anyone out there
> have a clue?
>
> Thanks, in advance

There are a few newsreaders for VMS so we really need to know which one.
Probably the most common is ANU news; in which case HELP KILL will tell
you all.

--

Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]
Xref: icaen talk.bizarre:76115 alt.alien.visitors:9797
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Heller)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: sci-fi channel
Message-ID: <music.717796555@batman>
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:56:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: batman

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Pat Monardo) writes:

>for some unknown reason the sci-fi channel is on and
>here's something i learned:

>if you concentrate on the little planet in the lower
>right hand side you enter another dimension.

It's called "The Realm of Reruns"...
--
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#   export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u')  #
# Work: [e-mail]  <#!AMIGA!#>  Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar #
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Heller)
Subject: Re: Interdimensional communication...
Message-ID: <music.717796757@batman>
Nntp-Posting-Host: batman
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 16:00:47 EDT
Lines: 30

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>>
>> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Andre Eichner) writes...
>> >Hello All!
>> >
>> >Is anybody interested oder working on interdimensional communication with
>> >aliens oder any other?
>> >
>> >cheers
>> >   Andre

>> If this means what I think it means, Andre.... I'm interested.
>>
>> mary


>I smell a conspiracy.
>interdimensional communication ? a new AT&T plan ????

>J "Friends and Family and Aliens" M.


Or ..."Friends and Past & Future Family".
--
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#   export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u')  #
# Work: [e-mail]  <#!AMIGA!#>  Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar #
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (frost...)
Subject: October 28th.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 00:12:00 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
Keywords:  The end.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Lines: 15

Hello all,
  Some time ago one of the a.a.v people posted an explanation for the
"Last Trumpet Day" said to occur on the 28th., of October. I didn't
manage to obtain a printout of the explanation but if the person could
repost it I would appreciate it greatly. There are some fundamentalists
I am in an ongoing argument with and I really need the facts about the
subject.
                    With appreciation in advance,
                            Jim

======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    [e-mail]
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager
======================================================================
Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:5848 alt.conspiracy:18578 alt.alien.visitors:9800 alt.mindcontrol:279 alt.flame:44293 soc.women:36849
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.mindcontrol,alt.flame,soc.women
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!shearson.com!newshost!rens
From: [e-mail] (Rens Troost)
Subject: Re: Mindless Flame (Was: Re: Matrix III Review)
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 29 Sep 92 18:31:02 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Rens Troost)
Organization: Lehman Brothers
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:36:30 GMT
Lines: 24


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) writes:
   Sorry, I just happen to very much dislike people who set rules for
   others and then even manage to somehow make them apologize for not
   obeying those rules. I guess, yes, it's the only thing that makes
   me feel like eating hot lead.

I think it is you that would impose rules on us, the smiley-users. Or
did you not intend to demean the users of good netiquette?

Also, you failed the test in my last posting -- because I did not
include smileys, you failed to realize that what I was writing was
sarcasm. No matter - just learn what it's for.

A more comprehensive flame has been forwarded to you via mail.

-Rens

--
  __   ___  ,    __
 /__) /__  /| / (    |  J. Laurens Troost    Lehman Brothers Technical Services
/  \ (___ / |/ __)   |  *Opinions expressed herein are mine. Mine, I tell you!*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INET: [e-mail]        VOICE: [phone]        FAX: [phone]
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.mindcontrol,alt.flame,soc.women
Subject: Re: Mindless Flame (Was: Re: Matrix III Review)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:42:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.1aam4gINNsbj
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.dev.null
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
Lines: 14
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) writes:
>P.S. I still don't know what you mean by simile. A similitude? Or what!?

A simile is like a metaphor.

                            spl



--
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- [phone] -- [e-mail]
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"If you don't think people are this crazy, you need to move to LA!"
                                     - Gary Stollman
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 37
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:34:57 GMT
Lines: 37

I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much
to see what people on the net think of his views.

This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director
and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared
as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7,
Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7.

He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings,
and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the
earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public.
The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability
among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional
control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to
admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and
technological
capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived
by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional
power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and
social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the
public. The national oligarchical establishments, even civilization as we
now know it, could collapse into anarchy. Such extreme conclusions are not
necessaril7y valid, but they probably accurately reflect the fears of the
*ruling classes* of the major nations, whose leaders (particularly those
in the intelligence business) have always advocated excessive governmental
secrecy as being necessary to preserve *national security.**

That's the quote.

So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization
as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.

Regards, Lou Crago

Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31733 alt.alien.visitors:9803
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 15:25:09 GMT
Lines: 11

I was researching material for a lecture about early UFOs last weekend
and I am sure I saw some material relating to Spring Heel Jack. I will
check to see what I have

Steve

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!levels!9051467f
From: [e-mail] (Wild Child)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and the Bible.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 00:27:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of South Australia
Lines: 274
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.itd.adelaide.edu.au
Originator: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Titanium Knight) writes:
> Interesting that people keep going back to the Bible on this subject.  In
> the end times, there will be signs in the sky!  I believe UFOs are the
> signs.  Everybody keeps saying that these are the end times, and I am
> inclined to believe it (I'm a Christian too).  UFOs could be increased
> spirtual activity as the angels (good and bad) get ready for the final
> battle.  Remember, there is a war going on in the spirtual realm!

I can't believe that these Foaming Fundies (tm) can be SO SELF CENTRED!
As if anything remotely important to the scheme of things in the universe
ALWAYS concerns the naughty activities of a bunch of lunatic humans!

> [TK] - Titanium Knight
Oh good grief....

--
John McVey, Whyalla, Uni S.Aust  [e-mail]
Electronic Engineering Student & Terror Tekkie G1 (at 19!)
       +------------------------------------------------------+
     --| Obligatory disclaimer : UniSA hates my opinions...   |--
       +------------------------------------------------------+
#! rnews 3096
Path: levels!ccdps
From: [e-mail]
XPosted: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
Subject: How DOS executes batch files [was: Another MsDos batch programming chal
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:11:17 +0930
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
XNewsgroups: comp.os.msdos.programmer
Followup-To: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:11:44 +0930
Organization: University of South Australia
Lines: 59

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Nick FitzGerald, CSC, Uni. of Canterbury, NZ) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> (Kenneth Falck) writes:
>> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Yossi Gil)
> writes:
  [deleted]
> The actual DOS batch processor is a tad more involved than Yossi's
> outline suggests.  Whilst the following may not seem much different from
> what Yossi suggests, some subtle implications of batch processor
> operations are more clearly apparent from it.  To the best of my ability
> to tell, the following is a more accurate outline:
>
>  1.  Open file
>  2.  Read first line
>  3.  Note number of -chars- read thus far
>  4.  Parse line (for redirection, etc)
>  5.  Close file
>  6.  Execute command
>  7.  Open file
>  8.  Read to number of chars recorded in 4.
>  9.  Read to next EOL or EOF
> 10.  If command is null and EOF goto 12.
> 11.  Loop to 3.
> 12.  Close file
>
 [STUFF deleted]

I have done some quick checks with a crude interrupt tracer to
determine what happens with REMs and labels. I have the following
modifications:

  1.  Open file
  2.  Read line
  3.  Note number of -chars- read thus far
  4.  Parse line (for redirection, etc)
  5.  If line is a label, note position and do step 2
  6.  If line is a forward GOTO, keep reading until label found, then do step 2
  7.  If line is a backward GOTO...? (I haven't tested this yet)
  8.  Close file
  9.  Execute command
 10.  Open file
 11.  Read to number of chars recorded in 3  [I think Nick meant 3 here, not 4]
 12.  Read to next EOL or EOF
 13.  If command is null and EOF goto 15.
 14.  Loop to 3.
 15.  Close file

This confirms what simple ECHO ON observation says: REMs get executed and labels
don't. At UniSA we have for years been skipping rather long documentation
sections in our LAN batch files with a GOTO, because the batch processor
*doesn't* close and open the file to read every line regardless. This also
supports the very old trick of using ": " to begin a comment rather than
a REM. The space after the ":" ensures that there are no confusions between
real label names and comments.

--
 Dan Shearer                        email: [e-mail]
 Computer Centre                    Phone: [phone]
 University of South Australia      Fax  : [phone]
#! rnews 1068
Path: levels!9051467f
From: [e-mail] (Wild Child)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: atheism
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:56:22 +0930
References: <[e-mail]> <ednclark.717813231@kraken>
Organization: University of South Australia
Lines: 18

In article <ednclark.717813231@kraken>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Clark) writes:

Haha very funny.

>
>>"God is Dead" Friedrich Nietzsche 19th century
> "Nietzsche is Dead" God 20th Century
              ^^^ prove it, dork! Send me a copy of the recording.
This is so flippin old!!!
a) You're an atheist with a humour deficiency (not likely given history)
b) You're a theist getting desparate for even a SMALL victory....

--
John McVey, Whyalla, Uni S.Aust  [e-mail]
Electronic Engineering Student & Terror Tekkie G1 (at 19!)
       +------------------------------------------------------+
     --| Obligatory disclaimer : UniSA hates my opinions...   |--
       +------------------------------------------------------+
#! rnews 997
Path: levels!9208657l
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.personals
Subject: Wanna be my e-mail pal?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:37:34 +0930
Organization: University of South Australia
Lines: 16

Hi Everybody!

If you're a broadminded guy/girl, unlimited age group, u can write to me cos'
I'm terribly bored! I'm a freshman in Uni of SA, Adelaide. Preferably from East
Coast and Mid-West USA and also, of course ... Aussies!
As my priviledge in using this account is very limited, sorry if there are some
people whose letters aren't replied .... I'm 20 y'o, originally came from
Indonesia, cos I'm in Australia just to study. Likes music (all kinds except
heavy-metal), Christianity (and am proud of being one!), books, movies, and bla
... bla ... bla (sounds boring? Try me!). O yeah nearly forgot, I'm a guy and
my name's Arry.

Arry Tanusondjaja
[e-mail]
(--- PLEASE DON'T post to [e-mail] ----)

#! rnews 1016
Path: levels!majfr
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory
Subject: Re: BNCOD '93 - When is it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:00:08 +0930
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of South Australia
Lines: 14

> Does anyone know when and where BNCOD is next year?  I can't find it in
> COMP.ANNOUNCE.CONFERENCES

Thanks to everyone who responded asking me to let them know when I found
out but I'm sorry, I received no reply with the answer.  Does anyone know,
even roughly ?

-------------------------------------------+----------------------------
John Roddick                               | Phone: [phone]
School of Computer and Information Science | Int.:  [phone]
Faculty of Applied Science and Technology  | Fax:   [phone]
University of South Australia              | Email: [e-mail]
THE LEVELS      SA  5095                   |
SOUTH AUSTRALIA                            |
#! rnews 4270
Path: levels!majfr
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory,comp.ai,aus.ai
Subject: Inductive Learning and Relational Databases
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:32:38 +0930
Organization: University of South Australia
Lines: 74

              INDUCTIVE LEARNING ALGORITHMS AND RELATIONAL DATA

I'm currently looking at some aspects of incorporating Inductive Learning into
Relational Database Systems and I'm after any references on previous work in
the area.  I already have a number of references but will post a (more)
complete list given sufficient demand.

In order to set the scene, here are some of the parameters I consider
necessary to place on any inductive learning algorithm using relaional
database data.

i.    There is no negative training data available.  Machine learning
      algorithms use negative training examples to illustrate conditions
      that are not true in order to test that generated rules are not
      unnecessarily simplistic.  Algorithms that rely on negative training
      data are therefore of little use.  The use of the closed world
      assumption to infer negative examples by simply generating tuples
      that do not exist in the database is of limited value due to the
      nature of these missing tuples.  With the generation of rules about
      data from a database the algorithm can be considered to have found a
      solution as long as it is consistent with the positive data.  It is
      not possible to assume that data not held in the database cannot
      occur.  The situation just has not yet occurred.

ii.   The algorithms used must run without operator interaction.  In
      machine learning terms there is no teacher to indicate correct
      concept classifications.  The concept of developing an oracle which
      learns, over time from data retrieval activity, which types of
      induced dependency are the most useful could replace the teacher in
      some cases.

iii.  The algorithms do not necessarily need to find all solutions.  The
      design of my system is such as to allow a graceful degradation of
      performance as less inductive data is available until, at its bottom
      limit, the model degenerates to a normal relational database system.
      Although there is a 'loss of induced information problem' which leads
      to a reduction in the number of rules over time, the algorithms can
      assume that rules left over from previous runs are still valid and
      should not aim to regenerate all rules from scratch.

iv.   Allied to points ii. and iii. above is the need for the algorithm to
      report their inductive findings as they find them rather than waiting
      until the algorithm runs to completion.  Often, especially with large
      database systems, running to completion may be impractical.

v.    If possible, temporal support should be accommodated but I have found
      no learning algorithms able to do this.  In particular, knowledge of
      temporal relationships, ala Allen (1981, 1983, 1984) should be
      handled.

vi.   The database data, at least for my purposes, may be considered
      accurate.  Many algorithms do not make this assumption and employ
      probabilistic methods of concept formation.

vii.  My method of storage and the nature of the relational data itself is
      such that disjunctive classification rules are required.

viii. All information is available to the algorithm at all times but there
      will be more data than can be reasonably held in storage.  Both
      incremental and non-incremental learners can thus be employed
      although breadth-first searching through the entire search space, as
      employed in some non-incremental learners, may be infeasible.

Thanks in advance,

John.

-------------------------------------------+----------------------------
John Roddick                               | Phone: [phone]
School of Computer and Information Science | Int.:  [phone]
Faculty of Applied Science and Technology  | Fax:   [phone]
University of South Australia              | Email: [e-mail]
THE LEVELS      SA  5095                   |
SOUTH AUSTRALIA                            |
#! rnews 539
Path: levels!9211116j
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: aus.ai
Subject: Requesting Email address for Mary O'Kane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:24:51 +0930
Organization: University of South Australia
Lines: 6

Can anyone help with an email address for Mary O'Kane, who
I understand has some experience with the Blackboard Architecture?
I believe she's at ANU. All advice appreciated,
Mike Sunners, [e-mail],
School of Electronic Engineering, University of South Australia
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11921 alt.alien.visitors:9805 sci.skeptic:31738
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!raja
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Tuesday, 29 Sep 1992 14:22:47 PST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Distribution: usa
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 45

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Dale Redd -- MP-6 Operations) says:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>>Subject: Baby Talk.
>
>(stuff deleted)
>
>>  This last week I saw where Sara Inserra has started talking at 20 minutes
>>old. The first thing that she said was to tell the nurse to take her to her
>>mother because she wanted to give her a message from her grandmother (Nana).
>>She told her that her mother, who died three years ago, wanted to assure her
>>she was all right and that she would be waiting for her and her husband when
>>their time comes.  Sara told them the following information about heaven; It
>>is a wonderful place, a lot like Earth, but with perfect weather.   There
>>are hills and mountains, meadows and gardens, lakes and oceans, and you can
>>live wherever you want. Everyone loves one another and there is harmony
>>everywhere. happiness is eternal. And God is everywhere, doing whatever it
>>takes to make you happy.  It is the happiest moment of your life expanded
>>for ever and ever.
>
>(stuff deleted)
>
>Hey John,
>
>For months now you've been posting stuff about your former lives and all your
>"Mentors'" series of lives, etc.  Now, you are saying that people die and go
>to heaven?  What, do some of us get lucky the first time around and end up
>in heaven after just one terrestial trip and others have to go 'round and
>'round a few times with the reincarnation thing?  I'm truly confused.
>
>Dale
>
>(on my first life)
>

Ah! the "truth" is , that you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently. You have
 to come back to this or another planet to get  a chance to fulfil your desires
. You can stay permanently when you don't have any material desires left. But f
or a religious person "Heaven" is the presence of God and that has nothing to d
o with nice weather etc.etc.

May the God of peace visit you and abide in your heart forever.

rajagopalan
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: October 28th.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords:  The end.
Lines: 46
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:17:07 GMT


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (frost...) writes:

|>Hello all,
|>  Some time ago one of the a.a.v people posted an explanation for the
|>"Last Trumpet Day" said to occur on the 28th., of October. I didn't
|>manage to obtain a printout of the explanation but if the person could
|>repost it I would appreciate it greatly. There are some fundamentalists
|>I am in an ongoing argument with and I really need the facts about the
|>subject.
|>                    With appreciation in advance,
|>                            Jim


    Just tell them to GET A LIFE!  You can't win an argument with
    Fundies.  They wouldn't listen to reason if Jesus Christ told
    them himself/herself/itself.

    Just let it rest until the 29th of October when everyone is still
    here and then you can go to the Fundies and go PPPPPHHHHHTTTTT!

    This same thing happened with me in 1988 when the Fundies (some
    not all) were convinced that the second coming would happen on
    Rashashana (sp sorry) because of a poorly written book: "88 Reasons
    why the rapture will happen in 1988).  A fellow co-worker was
    convinced that he and his family were going to rapture out.  Well
    I argued until blue in the face with no success.  I then said to
    him that he should take everything he owns and all his money and
    give it to a charitable organization.  He wouldn't do it.  Some
    faith you have I said.  Fell on deaf ears.  The day after the
    supposed event I went to him and ask how it felt to be made a fool
    of.

    Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids

--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11922 alt.alien.visitors:9807 sci.skeptic:31740
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 06:36:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 12

Dear People: In regards to the question of frequency and consistency
it is my opinion that it can be explained by using the colors of the
rainbow.  Red in the lowest which is hate, lust and etc. Not in order
you come to blue which is when you are in a blue downcast mood. Purple
is good and high. Gold and white is the best and highest which are true
love. These colors come through in the aura and the frequency of a person
in the color of the aura. The higher the frequency of your aura is the
higher evolved you are. In most cases the finer the consistency of a
being the higher the developement of that being.  It appear that some
people are now picking up my spirit at other times other than when we
are having the experiments. My spirit seem to do that without my
concious mind being aware of it. Tonight is OOBE Wednesday. John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11923 alt.alien.visitors:9808 sci.skeptic:31741
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!zazen!psl.wisc.edu!gorski
From: [e-mail] (Tom Gorski)
Subject: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 13:21:25 GMT
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>Ah! the "truth" is , that you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently. You
>have to come back to this or another planet to get  a chance to fulfil your
>desires. You can stay permanently when you don't have any material desires
>left. But for a religious person "Heaven" is the presence of God and that
>has nothing to do with nice weather etc.etc.

Man, I'll have to bite on this one.

A cute story to be sure, but how do you know this?

>rajagopalan

--Tom G.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse
From: [e-mail] (Robert K. Rouse)
Subject: Extraterrestrial Contact Symposium
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: EXtraterrestrial
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:13:45 GMT
Lines: 30



  I got a flyer about this UFO event.  If you know of other
  UFO related events please post them in this group.



  Extraterrestrial Contact - The Meaning and The Message

    Saturday, Oct 10, 1992   10:00am to 9:30pm

    Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley

    Sponsored bt The Society for the Advancement of
    Civilization & The First Sunday Study Group

    Tickets are 30$

    For more information:

        Berkeley Symposium
        P.O. Box 9073
        Berkeley, CA 94709-9073

--
==========================================================================
            Robert K. Rouse        [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "VOTE! - use it or lose it"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnews!mvbth
From: [e-mail] (bernard.t.hebert)
Subject: ANTI-GRAV_PATENT_???
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:05:11 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: [e-mail]
Keywords: What's up, Doc?
Lines: 32

Hello everone !

 While perusing the NET today I came across an article in Sci.space.shuttle
regarding the following matter :

"Method and Apparatus for Generating a Secondary Gravitational Force Field"

    U. S Patent # 3,626,605 awarded to Henry M. Wallace December 14, 1971.

My questions are as follows :

1.    How does one find out if there IS such a patent without going through
    a Patent Attorney ?

2.     As a U. S. Citizen, am I entitled to see such a document ?

3.    Will it cost me very much money to see such a document should I be
    able to do so ?


 Not that I can believe that twenty years ago some one came up with an actual
working model, but I would like to see the document if it exists.

                        Thanks,

                            Bernie

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
B. T. Hebert         || [e-mail] || DISCLAIMER: I REFUSE TO SPEAK
AT&T Network Systems ||                ||FOR ANYBODY BUT MYSELF.AT TIMES
N. Andover, MA 01940 ||     mvgpk!mvbth     || I WON'T EVEN DO THAT. FIGURES...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9811 alt.conspiracy:18590 alt.politics.perot:2988
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!convex!sunova!andorra!kevlar
From: [e-mail] (Kevlar)
Subject: **GREY OCTOBER**
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevlar)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:16:01 GMT
Lines: 29




      HERE IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL FEAR.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OCTOBER SURPISE????

You Fools! Perot is a Grey.
How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech.
Why did he suddenly decide to run?
Why is he so secretive?
Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes President?
Why is he so scared of the press?
Why does he want to hook up the country electronically?
Who is he really reporting to?

Is he really running for office? of course he is!!

I think it is clear what his plans were.
He is going to gain the Presidency. Clear the way for the Grey invasion.
And kick back with a Miller in a human free world.

Scared Yet?
You should be!


(reposted from a previous article)

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!stafford.winona.msus.edu!user
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Role-playing Games
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (John Stafford)
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:29:15 -0600
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,alt.activism
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS
Nntp-Posting-Host: stafford.winona.msus.edu
Lines: 10

In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
wrote:
>
>   I am putting together a Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Game.
>  If you are interested or want more information, write to me and I'll get back
>  to you as soon as possible.
>
>
naaaaaaa.  why bother when there is Rune Quest?  And what has this
to do with alien visitors?  The author of Rune Quest is an alien.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!convex!news.oc.com!mercury.unt.edu!PC-59249.slab.unt.edu!kauffman
From: [e-mail] (DON KAUFFMAN)
Subject: Re: ANTI-GRAV_PATENT_???
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: What's up, Doc?
Lines: 37
Sender: [e-mail] (UNT USENet Adminstrator)
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:33:09 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (bernard.t.hebert) writes:
>
> While perusing the NET today I came across an article in Sci.space.shuttle
>regarding the following matter :
>
>"Method and Apparatus for Generating a Secondary Gravitational Force Field"
>
>    U. S Patent # 3,626,605 awarded to Henry M. Wallace December 14, 1971.
>
>My questions are as follows :
>
>1.    How does one find out if there IS such a patent without going through
>    a Patent Attorney ?

Many libraries have books which list patents and documents pertaining
to individual patents, listed by patent number, I believe.
Some libraries have CD-ROM patent databases which also allow searching
for the patent holder or subject.

>2.     As a U. S. Citizen, am I entitled to see such a document ?

It's not a right, but it is available to you, and should be at your
local library.

>3.    Will it cost me very much money to see such a document should I be
>    able to do so ?

Not at a library.

> Not that I can believe that twenty years ago some one came up with an actual
>working model, but I would like to see the document if it exists.
>

I would also like to see it.  I'll check in my university library later
today, and report the results here if noone else has already done so.

                        Don Kauffman
Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51252 alt.alien.visitors:9814
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!sitka.triumf.ca!morgan
From: [e-mail] (Morgan Burke)
Subject: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News Maintenance)
Nntp-Posting-Host: sitka.triumf.ca
Organization: TRIUMF, Vancouver BC
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:49:33 GMT
Lines: 25

Found in the Popular Mechanics classifieds:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           PERFECT KNOWLEDGE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ETERNAL'S Original Measures contain Total Knowledge.
Enhance Einsteinic dimensions.  Gather unlimited, recycled.
FREE energy from CREATOR'S Time Bank for home,
factory, pleasure.  Eliminates deadly experimental research,
pollution, friction, Taxes!  Permanent power plants have NO
moving parts!  Transportation VEHICLES use Monadic Grav-
ity.  1000 year built-in durability.  Small, crash-proof, family-
model, Mini-Star Limited To under/over water within buffer
zone.  Maximum speed 50,000 M.P.H.  Relegates death-
dealing wheels To Stone Age.  SURVIVE due Seal Six and
ENJOY The riches of Heaven of Time Station Earth!  No mail.
Test for qualifications in person.  ATA Base, 1500 North
Texas, Welasco, Texas.


Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort.  Any ideas or
suggestions as to its real meaning?

-- Morgan Burke ([e-mail])

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg
From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Spokesman for Earth voting is complete
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Netcom - Your Only Choice
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:36:35 GMT
Lines: 9

As the time for ending the Spokesman for Earth voting has passed, the
election is now closed.  Votes received after 00:00 GMT today will be
counted if they carry a timestamp earlier than the deadline.  Allowing
for variously speedy/slothlike mail propagation, the results will be
posted to this forum Friday, 2 October.

--
Rick Gordon      | "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail] |   --- Universal Marketing Department motto
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley
From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:40:38 GMT
Lines: 53


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much
>to see what people on the net think of his views.
>
>This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director
>and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared
>as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7,
>Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7.
>
>He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings,
>and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the
>earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public.
>The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability
>among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional
>control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to
>admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and
>technological
>capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived
>by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional
>power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and
>social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the
>public. The national oligarchical establishments, even civilization as we
>now know it, could collapse into anarchy. Such extreme conclusions are not
>necessaril7y valid, but they probably accurately reflect the fears of the
>*ruling classes* of the major nations, whose leaders (particularly those
>in the intelligence business) have always advocated excessive governmental
>secrecy as being necessary to preserve *national security.**
>
>That's the quote.
>
>So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization
>as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
>
>Regards, Lou Crago
>

Lou,

I don't think people today would get very upset at all.  As a matter of fact,
I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like
this ... waiting for it.

There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our
systems.  I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people
a whole new outlook on life.. on existence...

mary stanley


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Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 30 Sep 1992 13:17:55 CDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Sumerians
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 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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The rest of Sitchen's volumes include: STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN, LOST REALMS, WARS OF
GODS AND MEN, 12TH PLANET, GENESIS REVISITED (COMPANION BOOK).  That's not the
order though, I think it's 12th, stairway, wars, lost realms, Genesis (comp.),
Definitely check them out.  The series tends to be a tad boring 'cause of all
the ancient text, theories, evidence, etc.  But definitely read Genesis Revisit
ed.  I think that's all of them.

                                ---Shawn---
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9818 alt.conspiracy:18591 alt.politics.perot:2989
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From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: **GREY OCTOBER**
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 40
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:26:25 GMT


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kevlar) writes:

|>      HERE IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL FEAR.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|>
|>
|>OCTOBER SURPISE????
|>
|>You Fools! Perot is a Grey.
|>How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech.
|>Why did he suddenly decide to run?
|>Why is he so secretive?
|>Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes President?
|>Why is he so scared of the press?
|>Why does he want to hook up the country electronically?
|>Who is he really reporting to?
|>
|>Is he really running for office? of course he is!!
|>
|>I think it is clear what his plans were.
|>He is going to gain the Presidency. Clear the way for the Grey invasion.
|>And kick back with a Miller in a human free world.
|>
|>Scared Yet?

    I'm shaking in my boots...NOT!  GET A LIFE!


    Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids
--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

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Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 30 Sep 1992 13:36:42 CDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO talk shows?
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 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Extremely humorous satellite story (NOT!).  ANYWAY, if you are fortunate enough
(rich enough!) to have a dish, William Cooper(YES! The one and only! Stick the
Flames up your ass instead of sending them to me). On Mondays, Teusday, and
Wednesdays on satellite.  Albeit, he doesn't deal with UFO's too much lately.
For more info call 1 [phone](machine).
                                                 ---Shawn---
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11926 alt.alien.visitors:9820 sci.skeptic:31770
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From: [e-mail] (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:27:57 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear People: In regards to the question of frequency and consistency
>it is my opinion that it can be explained by using the colors of the
>rainbow.  Red in the lowest which is hate, lust and etc. Not in order
>you come to blue which is when you are in a blue downcast mood. Purple
>is good and high. Gold and white is the best and highest which are true
>love. These colors come through in the aura and the frequency of a person
>in the color of the aura. The higher the frequency of your aura is the
>higher evolved you are. In most cases the finer the consistency of a
>being the higher the developement of that being.  It appear that some
>people are now picking up my spirit at other times other than when we
>are having the experiments. My spirit seem to do that without my
>concious mind being aware of it. Tonight is OOBE Wednesday. John Winston.

John - ok, so frequency & consistency are somehow indicated by the
color of an 'aura'.  Is there a method of evaluating an aura other
than with the naked eye?  Ie, is there any independant confirmation of
the existence of auras?

I've read of some controlled experiments regarding auras, and they
always seem to indicate that auras are a figment of the perceiver's
imagination, and have no objective reality.  Do you have any evidence
to the contrary?

    RA

[e-mail]
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
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From: [e-mail] (Steven Vere)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Demoralization of Scientists by Alien Confirmation
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:58:43 GMT
Lines: 69

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much
> to see what people on the net think of his views.
>
> He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings,
> and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the
> earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public.
> The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability
> among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional
> control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to
> admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and
> technological
> capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived
> by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional
> power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and
> social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the
> public.
>
> WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
> and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
> discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
>
> Regards, Lou Crago
>

   I'd  like  to confine  my  comments   to the effect   of   OFFICIAL
confirmation of aliens  on the scientific community.  Scientists would
be demoralized to  a  devastating    degree.
   Let's say  you are a  scientific demigod at Stanford.  You've spent
your best years working 70 hours a week to become the  expert in, say,
high temperature  superconductors.   You're  on national    boards and
committees, you   have  lucrative  consulting arrangements  with major
corporations, maybe your own company with  stock holdings.  You bought
a vacation  home on Maui two years   ago.   You're talking  to Clinton
staffers about  FY94  "investment"  in  a    National  Superconduction
Research Center, of which you will be the director.  In  short, you're
fat and happy.
   Now  George Bush, who will do anything to win the election, holds a
national press conference and lays  it all  out.  The ultimate October
surprise.  Aliens are real.   They are a  million years ahead of us in
science.  They are willing to share their knowledge with us.  He shows
photos, video tapes, trots out an NSA  spook  to field questions.  And
of course he takes credit for reaching the secret diplomatic agreement
with the Aliens.
  How  is  our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this?  For
him  it is a personal  CATASTROPHE!  Yes, he would  like  to learn the
secrets of the universe,  but his  life is  in ruins.  Superconduction
theory is now irrelevant,  childlike.   His  scientific and  financial
position has  evaporated.  The  next  day  in  a graduate seminar, his
students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when
it is now all useless drivel.  And they're right.
   The universities, industrial research labs, DARPA, and the National
Science Foundation people are totally demoralized, in chaos.  Everyone
has  to go  back  to  kindergarten.  Fine if  you  are six years  old,
catastrophic if you are  40  or 50,  like everyone  in the  scientific
power structure.

--
_____________________________________________________________________
     __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __
 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |
_____________________________________________________________________

  Steven Vere                                       [e-mail]
  Boulder Creek, California                [e-mail]
_____________________________________________________________________
     __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __
 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |
_____________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (L GENE BATTIN)
Subject: Re: October 28th.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
Keywords:  The end.
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] () writes...

>
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (frost...) writes:
>
>|>Hello all,
>|>  Some time ago one of the a.a.v people posted an explanation for the
>|>"Last Trumpet Day" said to occur on the 28th., of October. I didn't
>|>manage to obtain a printout of the explanation but if the person could
>|>repost it I would appreciate it greatly. There are some fundamentalists
>|>I am in an ongoing argument with and I really need the facts about the
>|>subject.
>|>                    With appreciation in advance,
>|>                            Jim
>
>
>    Just tell them to GET A LIFE!  You can't win an argument with
>    Fundies.  They wouldn't listen to reason if Jesus Christ told
>    them himself/herself/itself.
>
>    Just let it rest until the 29th of October when everyone is still
>    here and then you can go to the Fundies and go PPPPPHHHHHTTTTT!
>
>    This same thing happened with me in 1988 when the Fundies (some
>    not all) were convinced that the second coming would happen on
>    Rashashana (sp sorry) because of a poorly written book: "88 Reasons
>    why the rapture will happen in 1988).  A fellow co-worker was
>    convinced that he and his family were going to rapture out.  Well
>    I argued until blue in the face with no success.  I then said to
>    him that he should take everything he owns and all his money and
>    give it to a charitable organization.  He wouldn't do it.  Some
>    faith you have I said.  Fell on deaf ears.  The day after the
>    supposed event I went to him and ask how it felt to be made a fool
>    of.

Well, hey, don't stop here!  We're all anxious to know: How did he feel
to be made fool of?  Did he learn anything from this experience, or
did he continue his gullible ways?

>
>    Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids
>

[e-mail]
no .sig yet
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: UFOs and the Bible.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:24:31 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> M Holmes writes:
>
>>We should ship 'em some arms. Where there's a war, there's a profit.
>
>But, as I'm sure you'll agree, it would be a profit without honor.

But only in his own country.


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51274 alt.alien.visitors:9824 talk.rumors:3278
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From: [e-mail] (L GENE BATTIN)
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:09:25 GMT
Lines: 42

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Morgan Burke) writes...

>Found in the Popular Mechanics classifieds:
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                           PERFECT KNOWLEDGE
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  ETERNAL'S Original Measures contain Total Knowledge.
>Enhance Einsteinic dimensions.  Gather unlimited, recycled.
>FREE energy from CREATOR'S Time Bank for home,
>factory, pleasure.  Eliminates deadly experimental research,
>pollution, friction, Taxes!  Permanent power plants have NO
>moving parts!  Transportation VEHICLES use Monadic Grav-
>ity.  1000 year built-in durability.  Small, crash-proof, family-
>model, Mini-Star Limited To under/over water within buffer
>zone.  Maximum speed 50,000 M.P.H.  Relegates death-
>dealing wheels To Stone Age.  SURVIVE due Seal Six and
>ENJOY The riches of Heaven of Time Station Earth!  No mail.
>Test for qualifications in person.  ATA Base, 1500 North
>Texas, Welasco, Texas.
>
>
>Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort.  Any ideas or
>suggestions as to its real meaning?

Wonder if this is from the Something-or-other Time Ark Base people
I recall seeing mentioned in the _Fringes_of_Reason_ Whole Earth Catalog
book?  If so, (and my memory isn't totally wrong, it's hard to keep
all these types separate) these folks expect to survive an end-o-the-world
scenario _and_ get access to alien spacecraft technology, or sumpin like that.
I believe that they expect believers to invest a little elbow-grease
in their project.
IMHO, amusing, but wHOLY INFERIOR to the Sub-genius eschatology.

>
>-- Morgan Burke ([e-mail])
>

Gene
[e-mail]
no .sig yet
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From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Zaxxon
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:41:54 GMT
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Lines: 24


    Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning!


    I am Zaxxon.  I have found the Florida Everglades and am currently
imbibingavailable swamp gas and will be releasing it over the Nashville
and Lousville area on October 3rd.  Meanwhile, I must warn you!

Warning: Do not light a match between the hours of 700 and 1800 hours
on the 3rd of October.


    Preview:  My next mission is to somehow reinstate Perot back to
the elections. This we can greatly profit from.

Warning 2:  This second warning is out to Clinton and Bush!  Due to
        unexpected favors toward Ross Perot, you will be
        soaked in C8H6O8+N3(OH) at vrious intervals during the
        Southern debate.


End Message: Zaxxon $567.S3453@world#879.4


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!destroyer!terminator!pablo.physics.lsa.umich.edu!metzler
From: [e-mail] (Chris Metzler)
Subject: Re: Zaxxon
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Owner)
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References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:31:54 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] () writes:
|>
|>     Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning!
|>
|>
|>     I am Zaxxon . . .

You are goofy, too.

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Repost Object Beyond Pluto
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 92 23:29:54 GMT
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Lines: 59

Forwarded (without permission of the original author(s)) from sci.space:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 46898 of sci.space
Xref: mprgate.mpr.ca sci.astro:25399 sci.space:46898
Path: mprgate.mpr.ca!ubc-cs!destroyer!gatech!gitvm1.gatech.edu!gtri01.gatech.edu!labbey
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute
Date: Tuesday, 15 Sep 1992 15:21:46 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
Subject: New Planet?

The following bulletin was posted last night on CompuServe's ASTROFORUM:



#: 110734 S14/News/Current Events
    14-Sep-92  18:07:11
Sb: #Object beyond Pluto
Fm: SKY  TELESCOPE 70007,2762
To: All

There is some REALLY BIG NEWS just now breaking in the astronomical world.  The
IAU Central Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams has just issued IAU Circular 5611
to report the discovery of a faint object that seems to be outside the orbit of
Pluto!  Brian Marsden has given it the preliminary designation of an asteroid:
1992 QB1. But its true nature will be the subject of intense observations in
the next few months.

Dan Green of the CBAT says they really don't want people to start calling this
thing "Planet X" or the 10th planet or anything like that.  It's just too soon
to say.  For example, he says it could turn out to be a huge comet coming in.
It is now so far away that if it is a comet on a very elongated orbit it may
take 30 years to reach perihelion.  Then it could well become the Comet of the
(21st) Century!!

The discovery was made by David Jewitt and Jane Luu using the University of
Hawaii's 2.2-meter telescope on Mauna Kea.  The first images were secured
August 30, but just as with the discovery of Pluto in 1930 the discovery was
kept "under wraps" for awhile to allow a better assessment.  The object appears
stellar and has a visual magnitude of 23.5

Jewitt and Luu note that the object is fairly red, suggesting a surface rich in
organics.  The current position is, for 0h UT on September 15, 1992:  0h 00.09
+0d 01'.7 (2000.0).  The only orbit solution Marsden has published so far is a
circular one, which puts the object at 41.2 a.u. from the Sun.  It is moving
retrograde at only 3" per hour.

Stay tuned!
                -- Roger Sinnott
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Subject: Research item - The Mannegishi
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Sender: [e-mail]
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 22:44:23 GMT
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[Sorry about the repost. My attempt at cross-posting didn't seem to
work last time (something didn't seem to like spaces between the
newsgroups.) - LS]


I was reading a cryptozoology book a while ago when I came across
an interesting reference.

It was in Daniel Cohen's book "Encyclopedia of Monsters" (1982,
ISBN 0-948397-94-2) on page 197 within an entry on the "Dover Demon"
event in April of 1977. The text was discussing various proposed
explanations for the "demon" sighting.

   "... Someone also mentioned the Mannegishi creature, from the
    mythology of the Cree Indians of Canada. They are supposed to be
    little people with big round heads, small skinny bodies, big eyes
    and no noses. Their main purpose in life, according to the legends,
    was to play jokes on the big people."


The resemblence to "our friends the greys" (tm) is interesting and I
was curious if it goes any further. Maybe the greys were visiting the
Cree, or maybe we have a mythological precedent for the greys physical
appearance.

Does anyone have any information on the Mannegishi or know of a good
reference book? I know I could just go to a library and look it up,
but my free time is non-existent; besides, others might enjoy this.


Note: I set the followups to alt.alien.visitors.



Leonard.

--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
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From: [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Well, it's October ...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:35:37 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 21

Well, it's now October 1st, 1992 here in sunny Queensland, Australia.  For
those of you who are new to alt.alien.visitors, there have been rumors and
crazy-posts flying all year that October would see some big relevation about
aliens, UFOs, etc, from the US government or military.

So, keep your eyes glued to your TV sets everyone.  One never knows.

I reckon that such an announcement this close to the US election is _very_
unlikely, but I won't kick up a stink if I'm proved wrong.  Any big
announcement in October is more likely to be about some mundane US political
matter that the rest of the world (including me) doesn't give a damn about.

Cheers,

Rhys.

P.S. Kids, supaglue should not be used when glueing your eyes to the TV.  It
     is very difficult to remove, and could be damaging to your eyes.  :-)
--
Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia.
[e-mail]  "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zaxxon
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 23
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Purdue University, Indianapolis
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:23:37 -0500

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] () writes:
>
>     Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning!
>
>
>     I am Zaxxon.  I have found the Florida Everglades and am currently
> imbibingavailable swamp gas and will be releasing it over the Nashville
> and Lousville area on October 3rd.  Meanwhile, I must warn you!

Dear Mr. Zaxxon:

Last time you called yourself Earl, so I'll call you Earl Zaxxon.  Every fall
we get a few letters like yours from freshmen looking for swamp gas.  There is
no need to be looking for it in swamps.  The human race breeds an animal that
can process large quantities of vegetation into meat and swamp gas (methane,
CH4).  It is called a cow.  Millions of these creatures are roaming about
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa among other states.  The gas is expelled from an
oriface on the rear of the animal.  I suggest you find a herd of these animals
to satisfy your needs.  But be careful and don't let 'em kick you.

--
James Harvey
[e-mail]  uucp: iugate!harvey  bitnet: harvey@indyvax
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Herbig)
Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: pandora
Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:49:22 GMT
Lines: 14

Nick Sabadosh ([e-mail]) wrote:
:                [...stuff deleted...]
: Anyway, I was wide awake at this point, but experienced that kind of paralysis
: you get when you wake right from REM sleep.  I couldn't move, but my eyes were
: open.  Needless to say, this added to my uneasiness with the situation.
:              [...more stuff deleted...]

Sorry to disappoint you, sbut the paralysis you experienced is completely
normal. When you enter REM sleep, your parasympathetic nervous system causes
your body to become completely relaxed, and incapable of movement. This is so
you don't start thrashing around in your sleep and beat your wife up or
break your leg or something. It is very common, and any aliens taking credit
for it should immediately be sued for everything they're worth! ;)

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11928 alt.alien.visitors:9832 sci.skeptic:31789
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 18:01:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 38

1>+T
Subject: History of the
Earth (4.5 billion years).
  There were upheavals, eruptions of  volcanoes and land movements and this
caused that colony to go out of existence.
  The third colony vanished as the sun underwent minor changes and all but
scorched most of the life on the earth.  After that time there were the heat
resistant brutes or dinosaurs came into being  The sun was very hot it was
scorching the earth and these animals came into being.  These dinosaurs
ruled the earth for tens of thousands of years.  The dinosaurs defied even
the star men's efforts to exterminate them. The space people came and tried
to exterminate them, to kill the dinosaurs off.  They were getting out of
hand, they even defied them (the space people).
  The earth went into kind of a ice age.  It became sort of a waste land and
this caused the dinosaurs to go out of existence and this lasted for tens of
thousands of years.
  The fourth time man came from the stars he returned to replinsh the earth,
the fifth, sixth and seventh time, again and again the colonies were
destroyed by cataclysms, by large animals, by heat, by cold, by war and by
nature.
  When ever the eight colony came along man with a war like energy came to the
earth in search of fortuns of inner glactic war. They came here and they
were very energetic people. Many colors, mentalities and temperaments were
the space people that came.  They were the forbearers of those who populated
Atlantis.
Part 2.
John Winston.
asaurs ruled the earth for tens of thousandsTwZ
"<m

e"e8
-jF-u8]-
D-9zU,4x.xlxxx<xExTx
e"e8
-jF-u8]-D-9zU,<

0Roman 10cpie brutes.  Tkhe earth went into kind of a ice age.  It became
sor of a waste land and this caused the dinasau
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!uum1!kksys.com!quest!curt
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Convention Announcement
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:43:14 GMT
Expires: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 05:00:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Curtis Gibson)
Organization: Quest Research
Lines: 12


                        DIVERSICON
                      June 18-20, 1993
                 Mineapolis-St.Paul Minnesota

Science Fiction, Science Fantasy, Fantasy, Fandom, Writer's Workshop

An electronic flyer for Diversicon has been posted on alt.fandom.cons &
rec.arts.sf.fandom.  Please check it out and pass it on to anyone who
might be interested.  A.C. Crispin will hold a Writer's Workshop.

Curtis S. Gibson   [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445
From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:14:24 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Lines: 6

Gee, I thought I saw John's aura last night.  It sure was having fun without
him and it had red polkadots, blue stripe and little green and yellow
lightning bolts.  John, howcum you never tell us of these late night astral
plane, happenin' plces.  I found it when the transdimensional astral plane
had to make a forced landing.  Going there Friday night for sure. Let's have
a party. :) And bring some aliens! =:-)  Colleen
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!yale!news.wesleyan.edu!eagle.wesleyan.edu!jtulli
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:25:36 GMT
Organization: Wesleyan University
Lines: 9
Nntp-Posting-Host: eagle.wesleyan.edu

concerning the question whether dreams involving aliens are a sign of an actual
abduction, i have been told by someone i believe to know more about the whole
thing than me that the answer is a definate maybe...
i can understand the fear that has been discussed...i have remembered two
dreams involving aliens and i don't think i've EVER been as scared as in those
dreams...
anyone else have some information on this?

Jude
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys
From: [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:46:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 40

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steven Vere) writes:

>  How  is  our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this?  For
>him  it is a personal  CATASTROPHE!  Yes, he would  like  to learn the
>secrets of the universe,  but his  life is  in ruins.  Superconduction
>theory is now irrelevant,  childlike.   His  scientific and  financial
>position has  evaporated.  The  next  day  in  a graduate seminar, his
>students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when
>it is now all useless drivel.  And they're right.

There's always the "we don't need no stinking aliens - we'll do it ourselves"
angle.  Who cares if it takes a few hundred years to "catch up"?  At least
we can say that we did on our own, and aren't beholden to the aliens forever.
I'd expect most scientists would jump at the opportunity to study alien
technology, even if it makes their research obselete.  If our hypothetical
Standford luminary is the only person (or one of a select few) that have any
hope of understanding the alien technology, his position of power has not
evaporated at all.  If however he is just a suit, getting on committees due to
political power, then it's time to hand over the reigns to someone more
capable anyway.

You must crawl before you walk.  Newtonian mechanics is still taught in schools
even though we know that Einstein showed it to be strictly incorrect.  It is
still taught because it is easier to understand than Einsteinian mechanics,
and forms a good basis for beginning to understand Einsteinian mechanics.  The
current education system can form just as good a basis for alien technology as
it does for human technology.

We don't need to treat alien technology as a mysterious "gift from the Gods".
We'll make better use of it if we understand how it works, and develop our own
versions.  I think most people would agree that knowing how the gadgets work
is a good protection against the day the aliens don't like us any more, or we
don't like them.

Cheers,

Rhys.
--
Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia.
[e-mail]  "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!ross-c
From: [e-mail] (R Clement)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Viva La Cicciolina!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:22:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Lines: 9
Originator: ross-c@csparc12

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Gordon) writes:
>
>It's not too late, it's too early.  Voting begins at 00:00 GMT Monday,
>28 September.  This week is for the campaign.
>

When does voting finish then? If it isn't finished yet, CICCIOLINA!

Ross-c
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!vere
From: [e-mail] (Steven Vere)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Congressman Traxler Cares
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:35:13 GMT
Lines: 44

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley) writes:
> There's always the "we don't need no stinking aliens - we'll do it ourselves"
> angle.  Who cares if it takes a few hundred years to "catch up"?

   Congressman  Traxler cares.    This   is  the gentleman who led the
recent attempt to cut  ALL funding for  the  space station  in  the US
House of Representatives.  In recent years the margin of  approval has
been progressively   diminishing.  Mr. Traxler  and his  bretheren are
going   to say, with  some  justification,   "Why  should we spend $20
billion over the next ten years on scientific research and engineering
when we could  use the money to rebuild  the slums in Detroit or start
reducing the federal deficit."  You could set up some relatively small
and cheap  Alien tech  transfer   committees that would  yield a  much
better return on the taxpayers' investment.   I would agree  with this
approach.    Prof. Luminary's knowledge, his   lab  equipment, and his
stock holdings  are now  worthless.  And  just as important,  his  ego
would be deflated and he would  be in  psychic shock.  The politicians
would  be justified in  freezing  or cancelling the  funding  for most
existing scientific research projects.  Only a  few would be continued
and redirected to examine the new Alien scientific theories.
   We see a small hint of   the same  phenomenon in  the  effect on US
science and   engineering  of the collapse  of  the  Soviet  Union.  A
million scientist  and engineers  are losing  their jobs  because  the
justification for the projects went away.  Congress doesn't care.  Let
them relocate to Detroit  and fix potholes.  California  is now in the
worst economic condition since  the depression, with  defense spending
cuts a major cause.  Official  confirmation of  Alien technology would
magnify this  phenomenon 1000  times.




--
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 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |
_____________________________________________________________________

  Steven Vere                                       [e-mail]
  Boulder Creek, California                [e-mail]
_____________________________________________________________________
     __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __
 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |
_____________________________________________________________________
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 23:48:52 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

I heard somewhere that there is a law against talking to aliens,  we could
get a $10,000. fine from the federal govt. for communicating with aliens.
Has anyone else heard this?  I think I heard it from G. Green so I am
not sure how true it is.
DS
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:54:45 GMT
Lines: 15

[e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley) writes:

>You must crawl before you walk.  Newtonian mechanics is still taught in
>schools even though we know that Einstein showed it to be strictly incorrect.
>It is still taught because it is easier to understand than Einsteinian
.mechanics, and forms a good basis for beginning to understand Einsteinian
>mechanics.  The current education system can form just as good a basis for
>alien technology as it does for human technology.

sorry, newtonian mechanics is taught because it is absolutely accurate in
just about all situations. it only begins to break down at very high
accelerations. artillery and interplanetary flight calculations are per-
formed using newtonian mechnics.

josh
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9841 sci.skeptic:31808
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: mars observer's on it's way ... let's drag this one out again.
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:05:52 GMT
Lines: 27

Well, mars observer has been launched. barring untoward circumstances, it
should be in position and taking pictures in 11 months or so. with cameras
of 3 meter resolution, the 'Face on Mars' question should be settled (one
way or another) within the next couple of years.

Some months ago, someone here gave me odds that the various formations there
were not artificial in nature. In other words, we have a bet going wherein
if the Cydonia formations are *not* artificial, I pay him a certain amount
of money, and if they *are* artificial, he pays me a certain (larger) amount
of money. Judgement (in this case) is to be by mr. tim maroney, of san
francisco ([e-mail]).

I'd like to reiterate my position: I do not, myself, know if the formations
in cydonia on mars are artificial. I think the pictures of the 'face', 'city',
'straight wall', 'pyramid', 'fortress' etc are intriguing and I eagerly await
better photographs than we now have. Most people who express disbelief in
the artificiality of these formations have expressed their disbelief so
forcefully, that I am taking bets (at whatever odds (favorable to me) you
like).

If you believe without a doubt that the 'face on mars' is not an artificial
formation, here is your chance to put your money where your mouth is.

josh



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: October 28th.
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:26:50 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: The end.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 56

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] () writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (frost...) writes:
>
>|>Hello all,
>|>  Some time ago one of the a.a.v people posted an explanation for the
>|>"Last Trumpet Day" said to occur on the 28th., of October. I didn't
>|>manage to obtain a printout of the explanation but if the person could
>|>repost it I would appreciate it greatly. There are some fundamentalists
>|>I am in an ongoing argument with and I really need the facts about the
>|>subject.
>|>                    With appreciation in advance,
>|>                            Jim
>
>
>    Just tell them to GET A LIFE!  You can't win an argument with
>    Fundies.  They wouldn't listen to reason if Jesus Christ told
>    them himself/herself/itself.
>
>    Just let it rest until the 29th of October when everyone is still
>    here and then you can go to the Fundies and go PPPPPHHHHHTTTTT!
>
>    This same thing happened with me in 1988 when the Fundies (some
>    not all) were convinced that the second coming would happen on
>    Rashashana (sp sorry) because of a poorly written book: "88 Reasons
>    why the rapture will happen in 1988).  A fellow co-worker was
>    convinced that he and his family were going to rapture out.  Well
>    I argued until blue in the face with no success.  I then said to
>    him that he should take everything he owns and all his money and
>    give it to a charitable organization.  He wouldn't do it.  Some
>    faith you have I said.  Fell on deaf ears.  The day after the
>    supposed event I went to him and ask how it felt to be made a fool
>    of.
>
>    Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids


Well, Stevie boy, listen up..

According to a good friend who is DEEP on the inside of the "gummint"
the CIA is VERY interested in increased military desertions going on
right now in South Korea. The reason? Why it's because there's a bunch
of these religious fanatics who are claiming that Christ/rapture will
return/happen (take your pick) on or about Oct 28th.

Now ain't that the damndest thing you ever heard? :-)

Don



--
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
[e-mail] - Internet   1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight
88:4205/1.1  - MUFON Network  1:3607/20.2  -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net
NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!crosfield!imt
From: [e-mail] (ian taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 10:09:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.
Lines: 33



>>So there it all is, the worst fears,even down to the collapse of civilization
>>as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>>and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
>>
>I don't think people today would get very upset at all.  As a matter of fact,
>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like
>this ... waiting for it.
>
>There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our
>systems.  I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people
>a whole new outlook on life.. on existence...

Thats true. I imagine that there would be people who couldn't deal with it,
and would fall back on religion, madness or violence. However, in the main,
I think it would be the biggest advance in history and would provide the
kick in the pants mankind needs to put an end to the petty and meaningless
conflicts which feature all too regularly through our history, and give us
something to look up to.
On the other hand, it would be the end of nationalism and governments as we
know them, and while the populace would probably get behind that, I'm pretty
sure that those in power wouldn't be too keen, hence the alledged cover-up.

Personally, I don't think we'll ever see the secrecy lifted, unless the aliens
(if they exist) do it themselves, or there is a major change in super power
politics and policy, which is equally unlikely.

______________________________________________________________________________
| Ian Taylor (x4097)    |                 | [e-mail]   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!cnews
From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 10:56:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UseNet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
> I heard somewhere that there is a law against talking to aliens,  we could
> get a $10,000. fine from the federal govt. for communicating with aliens.
> Has anyone else heard this?  I think I heard it from G. Green so I am
> not sure how true it is.

I guess that this law is against talking to aliens in US territory, or do
they also apply it if an US citizen talks to aliens anywhere in the world?
In any case, there is no way it can be used agains me here, for example
(except, of course, if I apply for a visa).

Maybe we should hold another vote for a Non-US-citizen Spokesman for Earth,
just in case this law really exists?
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11931 alt.alien.visitors:9845 sci.skeptic:31820
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!firnvx.firn.edu!waddell
From: [e-mail] (Kathy Waddell)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News File Owner)
Nntp-Posting-Host: firnvx.firn.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Florida State University Computing Center
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution:  world
Date:  1 OCT 92 09:10:15
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]>,
      [e-mail] (Free Radical) writes...
>
>I've read of some controlled experiments regarding auras, and they
>always seem to indicate that auras are a figment of the perceiver's
>imagination, and have no objective reality.  Do you have any evidence
>to the contrary?

I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras.

Have fun!            =-Kathy->                  [e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11932 alt.alien.visitors:9846 sci.skeptic:31823
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 06:27:46 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Astral Flyers: It seems that my last posting about the history
of the earth got shot down towards the end by some flamer. I'll be on
the sides of Mt. Shasta this weekend so this will be a good time for
you flamers to put your flame throwers in the shop for a little
perventative maintenance. Gotta go to work now.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 06:37:23 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Folks: I just got a phone call from R. Stanley, the person who
took me on the tour of the 30,000 year old city.  He says he has reports
of a person who has a real fresh dinosaur bird (pterodactyl) head also
reports of live  dinosaurs. I never have found out about the Unicorn
research that has been going on lately.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11933 alt.alien.visitors:9848 alt.religion.kibology:4018
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 06:49:23 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Dear Folks: Some people may like to call this the end times and that
is OK, because it is the end of the age. The bible says that Jesus
said I'll be with you to the end of the world, and it did say this
in the King James version of the bible but in the original text it
says, I will be with you to the end of the age. We're just getting
started folks, hold on to your hats. It may get a little bumpy before
we get to smooth sailing.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: October 28th.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords:  The end.
Lines: 29
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution:  world
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:38:48 GMT


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (L GENE BATTIN) writes:

|>>    faith you have I said.  Fell on deaf ears.  The day after the
|>>    supposed event I went to him and ask how it felt to be made a fool
|>>    of.
|>
|>Well, hey, don't stop here!  We're all anxious to know: How did he feel
|>to be made fool of?  Did he learn anything from this experience, or
|>did he continue his gullible ways?


    Well he didn't have an answer.  Didn't say anything at all.  He
    is still a Fundie but is a bit more wary of fanatical Fundies
    bearing strang gifts


    Steve  Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids
--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 26
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:47:25 GMT


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:

|>I heard somewhere that there is a law against talking to aliens,  we could
|>get a $10,000. fine from the federal govt. for communicating with aliens.
|>Has anyone else heard this?  I think I heard it from G. Green so I am
|>not sure how true it is.
|>DS

    No you got it wrong.  If you want to talk with aliens  or go for a
    ride on an alien space craft you have to give me $10,000 cash no
    checks.  I will then set up the interview/ride.  Thanks for your
    support.

    Steve  Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids
--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: October 28th.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: The end.
Lines: 37
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:00:57 GMT


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:


|>Well, Stevie boy, listen up..
|>
|>According to a good friend who is DEEP on the inside of the "gummint"
|>the CIA is VERY interested in increased military desertions going on
|>right now in South Korea. The reason? Why it's because there's a bunch
|>of these religious fanatics who are claiming that Christ/rapture will
|>return/happen (take your pick) on or about Oct 28th.
|>
|>Now ain't that the damndest thing you ever heard? :-)

    NO it's not the damndest thing I ever heard.  Stupid maybe.
|>
|>Don

    Well Donnie boy,  listen up yourself...

    Yah! right! And on the 29th of October I'm going to go: PPPHHHTTT!!!!

    RELIGION! Just say NO!

    Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids

--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9852 sci.skeptic:31826 alt.flame:44316
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.flame
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip
From: [e-mail] (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:36:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Lines: 14

According to [e-mail] (Joshua Geller):
>If the Cydonia formations are *not* artificial, I pay him a certain amount
>of money, and if they *are* artificial, he pays me a certain (larger) amount
>of money. Judgement (in this case) is to be by mr. tim maroney, of san
>francisco ([e-mail]).

Maroney?

He'll probably make both of you pay.
--
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
    "My favorite phenomenon is when someone mails me or posts to this
     group, either calling me a newbie or telling me that my postings
     are not relevant to alt.non.sequitur."           -- Matt Welsh
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9853 alt.conspiracy:18601 alt.politics.perot:3017
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: **GREY OCTOBER**
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:30:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 17

>|>Scared Yet?
>
>    I'm shaking in my boots...NOT!  GET A LIFE!
>
>
>    Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids


    Steve Get a life... IT'S A JOKE!    You are such a geek ;-)

    P.S. The "NOT" thing is way over used. Not funny anymore.

--
=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>||              Denise faith Solis 1992          ||<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>||             [e-mail]         ||<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley
From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:52:20 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 28


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steven Vere) writes...
>
>  How  is  our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this?  For
>him  it is a personal  CATASTROPHE!  Yes, he would  like  to learn the
>secrets of the universe,  but his  life is  in ruins.  Superconduction
>theory is now irrelevant,  childlike.   His  scientific and  financial
>position has  evaporated.  The  next  day  in  a graduate seminar, his
>students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when
>it is now all useless drivel.  And they're right.
>   The universities, industrial research labs, DARPA, and the National
>Science Foundation people are totally demoralized, in chaos.  Everyone
>has  to go  back  to  kindergarten.  Fine if  you  are six years  old,
>catastrophic if you are  40  or 50,  like everyone  in the  scientific
>power structure.>
>  Steven Vere                                       [e-mail]
>  Boulder Creek, California                [e-mail]
>_____________________________________________________________________

So what are you saying, Steve?  That humanity should be held back to
protect the ego and bank account of a handfull of scientific dweebs
who care more about their reputation than the truth?

Humans adapt... it's what we do best... the scientific community can adapt
too... science is supposed to be a search for truth..

They rest of us adapt all the time... we have to... the demigods can
figure out how to do it too.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley
From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Repost Object Beyond Pluto
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:02:56 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 35


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>X-NEWS: cubldr.colorado.edu alt.alien.visitors: 9540
>Path: ucsu!boulder!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
>From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
>Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
>Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
>Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
>Date: 24 Sep 92 23:29:54 GMT
>References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
>Sender: [e-mail]
>Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
>Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
>Lines: 59
>
>The following bulletin was posted last night on CompuServe's ASTROFORUM:
>
>
>
>#: 110734 S14/News/Current Events
>    14-Sep-92  18:07:11
>Sb: #Object beyond Pluto
>Fm: SKY  TELESCOPE 70007,2762
>To: All
>
>There is some REALLY BIG NEWS just now breaking in the astronomical world.  The
>IAU Central Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams has just issued IAU Circular 5611
>to report the discovery of a faint object that seems to be outside the orbit of
>Pluto!  Brian Marsden has given it the preliminary designation of an asteroid:
>1992 QB1. But its true nature will be the subject of intense observations in
>the next few months.


Watch it pick up speed and alter it's course to get it... then it swings
into orbit around Earth... :-) .... this ought to be interesting...
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:11:01 GMT
Lines: 41


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steven Vere) writes...

>   Congressman  Traxler cares.    This   is  the gentleman who led the
>recent attempt to cut  ALL funding for  the  space station  in  the US
>House of Representatives.  In recent years the margin of  approval has
>been progressively   diminishing.  Mr. Traxler  and his  bretheren are
>going   to say, with  some  justification,   "Why  should we spend $20
>billion over the next ten years on scientific research and engineering
>when we could  use the money to rebuild  the slums in Detroit or start
>reducing the federal deficit."  You could set up some relatively small
>and cheap  Alien tech  transfer   committees that would  yield a  much
>better return on the taxpayers' investment.   I would agree  with this
>approach.    Prof. Luminary's knowledge, his   lab  equipment, and his
>stock holdings  are now  worthless.  And  just as important,  his  ego
>would be deflated and he would  be in  psychic shock.  The politicians
>would  be justified in  freezing  or cancelling the  funding  for most
>existing scientific research projects.  Only a  few would be continued
>and redirected to examine the new Alien scientific theories.

Is Professor Luminary's stock holdings and ego more important than the
future an alien contact could open up for the rest of humanity?


>   We see a small hint of   the same  phenomenon in  the  effect on US
>science and   engineering  of the collapse  of  the  Soviet  Union.  A
>million scientist  and engineers  are losing  their jobs  because  the
>justification for the projects went away.  Congress doesn't care.  Let
>them relocate to Detroit  and fix potholes.  California  is now in the
>worst economic condition since  the depression, with  defense spending
>cuts a major cause.  Official  confirmation of  Alien technology would
>magnify this  phenomenon 1000  times.

Oh come on... it would not... there aren't that many Professor Luminary's
working for California. :-)

Hey Professor Luminary... the rest of us have to learn to get by when our
jobs go away... get back to the real world and stop expecting humanity
to forfeit it's future to protect your stock and your ego.

Mary Stanley
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:28:53 GMT
Lines: 28


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (ian taylor) writes...
>
>
>>>So there it all is, the worst fears,even down to the collapse of civilization
>>>as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
>>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>>>and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
>>>
>>I don't think people today would get very upset at all.  As a matter of fact,
>>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like
>>this ... waiting for it.
>>
>Personally, I don't think we'll ever see the secrecy lifted, unless the aliens
>(if they exist) do it themselves, or there is a major change in super power
>politics and policy, which is equally unlikely.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>| Ian Taylor (x4097)    |                 | [e-mail]   |
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the aliens decide to do it themselves, Ian (and I am of the opinion that
they've already made that decision), then we will quickly see a major change
in super politics policy.  Super politics policy adapts quickly... they are
very pragmatic. :-)


Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9858 alt.conspiracy:18602 alt.politics.perot:3023
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!seas.gwu.edu!korman
From: [e-mail] (John Korman)
Subject: Re: **GREY OCTOBER**
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: George Washington University
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:01:40 GMT
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kevlar) writes:
>
>
>
>      HERE IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL FEAR.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>OCTOBER SURPISE????
>
>You Fools! Perot is a Grey.
>How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech.
>   ........
>
>Scared Yet?
>You should be!


What the heck is a "Grey" ??????????????

Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9859 sci.skeptic:31834
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail] (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:47:55 GMT
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joshua Geller) writes:
|> Well, mars observer has been launched. barring untoward circumstances, it
|> should be in position and taking pictures in 11 months or so. with cameras
|> of 3 meter resolution, the 'Face on Mars' question should be settled (one
|> way or another) within the next couple of years.
|>
|> Some months ago, someone here gave me odds that the various formations there
|> were not artificial in nature. In other words, we have a bet going wherein
|> if the Cydonia formations are *not* artificial, I pay him a certain amount
|> of money, and if they *are* artificial, he pays me a certain (larger) amount
|> of money. Judgement (in this case) is to be by mr. tim maroney, of san
|> francisco ([e-mail]).

Do I have to bet to find out how you are going to decide this question?

Every legitimate geologists and planetary scientist I know of has said they
are natural rock formations.  Enthusiasts say otherwise.  The evidence
is just a pattern of pixels.

How will you use the new evidence?  Unless there are migs or radio
dishes or something, just exactly what could be on the photo that
would be defined as evidence of 'artificial'?  And what could be on
the photo that COULDN'T look artificial to a dedicated wonder-monger?
And whose opinion will decide?

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  [e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11936 alt.alien.visitors:9860 sci.skeptic:31838
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Crunchy Frog)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Originator: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:31:22 GMT
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]>
  [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>      [e-mail] (Free Radical) writes...
>>
>>I've read of some controlled experiments regarding auras, and they
>>always seem to indicate that auras are a figment of the perceiver's
>>imagination, and have no objective reality.  Do you have any evidence
>>to the contrary?
>
>I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras.

Or, alternatively, not.  See James Randi on the subject (in Flim Flam).

>Have fun!            =-Kathy->                  [e-mail]

C Frog

Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51367 alt.alien.visitors:9861 talk.rumors:3284
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Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Richard Joltes)
Date: 1 Oct 92 11:58:32 EDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Harvard University Science Center
Nntp-Posting-Host: husc10.harvard.edu
Lines: 27

[e-mail] (Morgan Burke) writes:
>Found in the Popular Mechanics classifieds:
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                           PERFECT KNOWLEDGE
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rest of ARTICLE with randomly CAPITALIZED words (a'la "CHICK books") deleted]

>Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort.  Any ideas or
>suggestions as to its real meaning?

If you use a secondary substitution key under a full moon and view the result
through the bottom of a mayonnaise jar (kept on Terry Wood's front porch since
Noon today) the ANSWER becomes clear:

"no matter how thin you slice it, it's *still* baloney."

                        --Milo Bloom, "Bloom County"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dick "where do they *get* these people?" Joltes        [e-mail]
Hardware & Networking Manager, Computer Services     [e-mail]
Harvard University Science Center

"Mind you, not as bad as the night Archie Pettigrew ate some
sheep's testicles for a bet...God, that bloody sheep kicked him..."
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11938 alt.alien.visitors:9862 alt.religion.kibology:4025
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!cnews
From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:57:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UseNet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 7

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>                                          The bible says that Jesus
> said I'll be with you to the end of the world,

Really? I can't believe that the bible says that Jesus said you'll be
with us to the end of the world.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 19:34:40 GMT
Lines: 41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> concerning the question whether dreams involving aliens are a sign of an actual
|> abduction, i have been told by someone i believe to know more about the whole
|> thing than me that the answer is a definate maybe...
|> i can understand the fear that has been discussed...i have remembered two
|> dreams involving aliens and i don't think i've EVER been as scared as in those
|> dreams...
|> anyone else have some information on this?
|>
|> Jude


Since I have been researching UFOs and related subjects I have frequently
had related dreams. Rather than a sign of abductions, I think it is a sign
of exposure to the material. I wouldn't worry about it.

Of course I have a scoop-mark scar on my lower leg that appeared out
of nowhere several years ago, a history of sleep disturbances, and my 2
year old little girl kept waking up with nose bleeds a few months ago and
refused to sleep alone for a few weeks (just recently). I also remember
a "dream" from my childhood where strange short robed figures would take me
out of my bed and float me into someplace I can't remember, then bring me
back and leave me standing in the hallway, *wide awake*, screaming ;^)

Seriously - If you are familiar with the abduction material and you
think hard enough, you can find plenty of indications that you might
have been abducted. I can think of a plenty for myself, but I don't
really think it has ever happened. Lots of people have scars that they
don't remember getting. Lots of 2-year-olds get nosebleeds and like to
sleep on their Mom's lap and lots of people have weird dreams.



Leonard


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
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From: [e-mail] (Phil Gustafson)
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Where the wolf has slept by the silver stream
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:19:30 GMT
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Joltes) writes:
>
>"no matter how thin you slice it, it's *still* baloney."
>
>                        --Milo Bloom, "Bloom County"

That would be Harry Truman, Dick.
--
|play: [e-mail]; {ames|pyramid|vsi1}!zorch!phil                |
|work: (Under Construction)              | Phil Gustafson                   |
|              I'm the cultural elite.  And I vote.                         |
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Heaven
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:27:44 GMT
Lines: 64



Rajagopalan writes:

        >you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently...
        >"Heaven" is the presence of God..

which provokes Tom into saying:

        >Man, I'll have to bite on this one.

        >A cute story to be sure, but how do you know this?

Well, when it comes to this kind of question, I can't resist biting either,
as I've got a copy of the book with all the answers to this kind of question.
YES. It's called "A Course In Miracles". With "Heaven", we have to define our
terms. There does seem to be a state ("level") like John mentioned, where
you're in a wonderful "country", and everybody is happy and loving. I heard
this from a Swiss lady who was in a coma for several weeks, and she
experienced exactly this (I quote John):

        >...a wonderful place, a lot like Earth, but with perfect weather.
        >There are hills and mountains, meadows and gardens, lakes and
        >oceans, and you can live wherever you want. Everyone loves one
        >another and there is harmony everywhere. happiness is eternal..
        >It is the happiest moment of your life expanded for ever and ever.

I do not believe, however, that this is Heaven. Of course, it sounds to be a
very nice place, but the Swiss lady said that people could go to lectures if
they wanted, or join learning groups. This leads me to believe that the state
described was just a higher plane.

The little girl's message:

    >God loves us all and we will all be in Heaven with Him sooner or later

is what Jesus and other people have been trying to tell us for centuries.

Reincarnation (acknowledged nowadays by very many people) explains why not
everyone gets to stay in this "wonderful country", although it seems that not
everyone has to come back as far down as Earth. You do, of course, normally
need a lot of lives on an earthly plane before you can stay at a higher
level. (This means that *all* of us here still haven't learnt!)

When we finally do get back to Heaven (all of us), then nobody will have to
leave home any more. Actually, we haven't left, we just *think* we have!

Of course, nobody can *prove* anything like this, but you just have a look at
the above-mentioned tome, and ask yourself if anybody on Earth would be
capable of writing something as beautiful as this. (It was channelled.) It
was only after they had published it in prose form that they realised that a
lot of it is in blank verse.

                Happy reading

Although I quote Raja, I mean it:

     >May the God of peace visit you all and abide in your hearts forever.

                                                Paul.

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland
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From: [e-mail] (Eric H. Taylor)
Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: [e-mail]
Summary: ET's closet encounters are personal stuff...
Keywords: ET experiences
Sender: ET (Eric H. Taylor)
Nntp-Posting-Host: teal.csn.org
Organization: Eric Taylor and Associates, Inc.
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:11:49 GMT
Expires: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 06:00:00 GMT
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Jones) writes:
>[...]
>                 Saturday, October 10, 1992 10:00am to 9:30pm
>                 Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley
>                 At Gayley Road across from the Greek Theater
>[...]
>A special multi-media presentation of ET close encounter experiences will also
>be presented.
>[...]

Hey, she wasn't supposed to show that video to anyone else!
I want it back!!!

Eric.
--
ET: Eric H. Taylor. Or, put an "ordinary" between "extra" and "terrestrial"
and that's me.
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From: [e-mail] (Good good good good vibrations)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Auras
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:04:24 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 6
NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com

RA,

As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras.  If this is a
figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one.

Kathie G.  ;.)
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From: [e-mail] (Christopher James Rogers)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:13:04 GMT
Lines: 52

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steven Vere) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much
>> to see what people on the net think of his views.
>
> [...]
>
>   I'd  like  to confine  my  comments   to the effect   of   OFFICIAL
>confirmation of aliens  on the scientific community.  Scientists would
>be demoralized to  a  devastating    degree.
>   Let's say  you are a  scientific demigod at Stanford.  You've spent
>your best years working 70 hours a week to become the  expert in, say,
>high temperature  superconductors.   You're  on national    boards and
>committees, you   have  lucrative  consulting arrangements  with major
>corporations, maybe your own company with  stock holdings.  You bought
>a vacation  home on Maui two years   ago.   You're talking  to Clinton
>staffers about  FY94  "investment"  in  a    National  Superconduction
>Research Center, of which you will be the director.  In  short, you're
>fat and happy.
>   Now  George Bush, who will do anything to win the election, holds a
>national press conference and lays  it all  out.  The ultimate October
>surprise.  Aliens are real.   They are a  million years ahead of us in
>science.  They are willing to share their knowledge with us.  He shows
>photos, video tapes, trots out an NSA  spook  to field questions.  And
>of course he takes credit for reaching the secret diplomatic agreement
>with the Aliens.
>  How  is  our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this?  For
>him  it is a personal  CATASTROPHE!  Yes, he would  like  to learn the
>secrets of the universe,  but his  life is  in ruins.  Superconduction
>theory is now irrelevant,  childlike.   His  scientific and  financial
>position has  evaporated.  The  next  day  in  a graduate seminar, his
>students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when
>it is now all useless drivel.  And they're right.
>   The universities, industrial research labs, DARPA, and the National
>Science Foundation people are totally demoralized, in chaos.  Everyone
>has  to go  back  to  kindergarten.  Fine if  you  are six years  old,
>catastrophic if you are  40  or 50,  like everyone  in the  scientific
>power structure.
>
There is some substance behind that theory, but it only applies to those
scientists that are not willing to accept.  If our scientists were faced with
the sudden existance of aliens who (foolishly) wish to share their knowledge
with us, then they would logically go from being Scientists to being the
representatives of Earth.  After all, someone has to introduce the info to our
society.  I don't think things would be as severe as going back to Kindergarten
either.  If the info were introduced properly, then people could learn it much
like they learn about anything else newly discovered or designed in our world.

Later!
C J Rogers


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From: [e-mail] (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:15:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:
[...]
>I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras.
>
>Have fun!            =-Kathy->                  [e-mail]

Kathy - no, Kirlean photography takes pictures of EM fields.

    RA

[e-mail]
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (Gregg Brown)
Subject: AAV Archives
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:36:15 GMT
Lines: 13


Occasionally I have seen requests for information on past articles in
alt.alien.visitors. If you desire something, I have the entire newsgroup
archive back to July 13, 1992. I access it frequently. I have no way to
ftp it to another system for public access but would be glad to email portions
of it upon request. The responses are not quaranteed to be correct or complete.

You can email me at [e-mail] and I will do my best.

Gregg

--
This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.
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From: [e-mail] (Ted Powell)
Subject: Kirlian Photography (was: July 4, 1992 - Global etc)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic
Summary: A measure of electrical conductivity patterns.
Organization: Entropy Limited, Vancouver Canada
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 20:19:56 GMT
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>      [e-mail] (Free Radical) writes...
>>
>>I've read of some controlled experiments regarding auras, and they
>>always seem to indicate that auras are a figment of the perceiver's
>>imagination, and have no objective reality.  Do you have any evidence
>>to the contrary?
>
>I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras.

The evidence suggests that Kirlian photography gives pictures of electrical
discharges, whose shapes depend on patterns of electrical conductivity in
the objects being used.
    For example, if you place a leaf in the apparatus and make a picture,
you'll get something in the shape of a leaf with a fringe around the
outside (since the discharge from the electric field being applied extends
somewhat beyond the boundaries of the leaf). If you now tear off part of
the leaf, and leave the remainder in its same position in the apparatus,
you will now get a picture in which the "missing" part of the leaf still
appears, albeit more faintly than before, _provided_ that you don't
thoroughly clean the apparatus in between, removing residue left by the
whole leaf at the end of the first run. Some people attach a mystical
significance to this.

Reference:
    There's a chapter on Kirlian photography in "Science and the
Paranormal", Barry Singer and George Abell, eds. The book's at home, so if
anyone needs to know things like ISBN, publisher, etc, please email me.

Anyone following this thread from alt.alien.visitors, please note that I've
omitted that group from the Followup-To: -- I don't think Mr Kirlian was an
alien.  :-)

--
[e-mail]   {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!eslvcr!ted   (Ted Powell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (frost...)
Subject: Re: nuts
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 21:20:00 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
Distribution: usa
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Pat Monardo) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>I saw an alien once when I was on a midnight stroll down to Farmers loop road
>>from my house.  There was a bright light in the sky and before I knew it there
>>I was on an operating table having my nuts cut off, I was really scared but
>>when the operation was over I felt very good about myself.
>>
>>
>
>was this the night of the Rocky Mountain Oysters special at the
>Farmers Loop Restaurant?
>
>--
>-- Pat Monardo
>-- [e-mail]

Are you singing suprano now too???

======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    [e-mail]
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager
======================================================================
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From: [e-mail] (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 11:46:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Lines: 13

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Morgan Burke) writes:

    ETERNAL'S Original Measures contain Total Knowledge...

    Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort.  Any ideas or
    suggestions as to its real meaning?

It means "send money".
--
/|/-\/-\       In real life, the Vice President chastises Murphey Brown
 |__/__/_/     for her morals.  Bill Clinton plays the sax on "Arsenio
 |warren@      Hall."  Though "Batman Returns" is fiction, it's not too
/ nysernet.org much stranger than truth - Caryn James, The New York Times
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From: [e-mail] (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:41:02 GMT
Lines: 36

[e-mail] (Robert McGrath) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joshua Geller) writes:
>|> Well, mars observer has been launched. barring untoward circumstances, it
>|> should be in position and taking pictures in 11 months or so. with cameras
>|> of 3 meter resolution, the 'Face on Mars' question should be settled (one
>|> way or another) within the next couple of years.
>|>
>|> Some months ago, someone here gave me odds that the various formations there
>|> were not artificial in nature. In other words, we have a bet going wherein
>|> if the Cydonia formations are *not* artificial, I pay him a certain amount
>|> of money, and if they *are* artificial, he pays me a certain (larger) amount
>|> of money. Judgement (in this case) is to be by mr. tim maroney, of san
>|> francisco ([e-mail]).

>Do I have to bet to find out how you are going to decide this question?

>Every legitimate geologists and planetary scientist I know of has said they
>are natural rock formations.  Enthusiasts say otherwise.  The evidence
>is just a pattern of pixels.

>How will you use the new evidence?  Unless there are migs or radio
>dishes or something, just exactly what could be on the photo that
>would be defined as evidence of 'artificial'?  And what could be on
>the photo that COULDN'T look artificial to a dedicated wonder-monger?
>And whose opinion will decide?

well, I rather imagine a 3 meter resolution photo of cydonia will show
rather convlusively whether or not these formations are artificial or not.
3 meter resolution photos of the pyramids, macchu picchu, stonehenge, etc
are readily differentiated from 3 meter resolution photos of rock formations.

in matters of the bet, though, the appointed judge (in at least one case
tim maroney) will decide.

josh
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From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Auras
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 00:38:13 GMT
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>RA,
>
>As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras.  If this is a
>figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one.
>
>Kathie G.  ;.)

Heck, Kathie, when I was a 'kid', I saw all sorts of colors, too.



On acid, that is.

'twas glorius to grow up in California!



kbq



--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:39:22 GMT
Lines: 45

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (White) writes:
>Now that Vallee's book Revelations has come out in paperback, I
>picked it up.  Thank God.
>
>Reading the book has provided a psychological attenuator for
>much of the Cooper/Lear/UMMO/Pleidian/fill in your own fringe group
>noise that has threatened to drown any interest I may have had in
>the UFO phenomenon.
>
>Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take
>one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their
>participants.  Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people
>that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not
>have.  Then he asks the hard questions.
>
>For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out
>the garbage?"  "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites
>picked any traces of this base?" etc.
>
>Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason
>for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of
>Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges.  However, the
>reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation
>campaign cannot be firmly grasped.
>
>So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your
>kill file is getting larger and larger.
>
>========================================
>Paul White
>[e-mail]
>My opinions are not those of Raytheon
>========================================


Thanx for the tip on the book. I just picked it up yesterday and read a
small number of pages. Looks good. I will hit is as soon as I finish
Secret Life by Jacobs. He gives a very ineresting and detailed history of
UFO happenings in the USA. Being a history prof, I think he did a good
turn for the readers of Secret Life. Basically, he pulls the BS out and
lays it on the table first thing.

Gregg.
--
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From: [e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:16:56 GMT
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Lines: 7

You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural
against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the
proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to
any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on
public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect
the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing,
because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...)
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From: [e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:25:37 GMT
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Lines: 1

It's a New Age/druggie pastiche of Tom Waits' classic "Step Right Up".
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:43:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 65


    [e-mail] (Lou Crago) writes:
    This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the
    Deputy Director and Special Assistant to the Executive
    Director of the CIA.

... Marchetti resigned from the Agency in 1969.  He had worked in the
CIA for fourteen years prior, as an expert in Soviet military and
antiballistic missle systems, and in 1966 moved to the office of the
director.  He is most known for co-authoring "The CIA and the cult of
intelligence" (1975) with John D. Marks.  Authoring the book put him
decidedly on the 'outs' with the Agency.  Just so you know... (and
know that Marchetti's information was at least 10 years old in 1979.)

   The passage you quote appears in Timothy Good's "Above Top Secret"
(page 365), where it is described as "Machetti's theory"; that is,
that Marchetti believes this to be true knowing what he knows about
how the agency operates, and what documents that have been released by
FOIA suits.  (Clearly, Marchetti knows a lot about the agency, but he
doesn't have the evidence implied by the quote you gave.)  It would be
nice to be able to read the entire original article -- do you have it?

    What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
    WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was
    established that UFOs and Visitors are real?

... probably.  (This topic has been discussed before on this group.)

   It depends on what a supposed alien race said when they contacted
us.  For instance, if they directly challenged major religious views
(e.g.  "Jesus was an Alien", "Mohammed did not ascend to heaven",
etc.) then the chaos could be considerable.  If they did not, then the
chaos could be similar to what we've seen when higher-tech cultures
interact with lower-tech ones without restrictions: major social
upheavals as the lower-tech culture tried to assimiliate new
technologies without a proper "ramp-up" (which almost certainly would
severely test economic systems, as the scarcities that drive economies
become plentiful, and technologies are taken on without a proper moral
background -- imagine street-gangs with particle-beam weapons....)


   I doubt that there would be a lot of "human-kind is not top dog"
kind of upheavals; various races have been told they are inferior in
human history (Indians, American Indians, Blacks, Irish, Jews, etc.,
etc.), and have survived.  Technological upheaval (that of a sudden
whisking-away of technological barriers by a 'great leap forward' in
what is known) would also probably occur, but would probably be
replaced with new technological barriers to be explored, after a
learning period (that is, after a period of uncertainty, we would all
find something *else* to do.  For instance, the 'need' for TV shows
would not disappear, regardless of what the TV looked like.)

   There's also political considerations (and I'm not talking about
elections).  Consider: why, typically, do explorers explore?  For some
form of gain.  Sometimes the "gain" is not particularly threatening to
those "found", sometimes it is.  Until widespread contact is actually
made, its something of a crapshoot as to who wants what.


Charles


PS - sources: "The CIA and American Democracy", Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones,
Yale University Press, 1989; "Above Top Secret", Timothy Good, Quill
William Murrow, 1988.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 02:07:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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    [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley) writes:
    There's always the "we don't need no stinking aliens - we'll
    do it ourselves" angle.

...this is counter-intuitive.  No one needs to know the underlying
principles of something before it is used.  Does the biochemist know
the guts of VLSI design (or anything at all about how computers work)
to use it in his/her work?  Do I need to know how an automobile works
to drive one?  Certainly not -- all I need to know is I turn this key,
put this level here, accellerator/brake, steering wheel, and I'm off.
If a higher-technology culture handed us neat stuff, we'd take it and
use it, and then learn its guts (if for no other reason, so we could
make 'em smaller and cheaper, and sell 'em back to the aliens.)

    I'd expect most scientists would jump at the opportunity to
    study alien technology, even if it makes their research
    obselete.

... absolutely right.

  Oh yes, and:

    [e-mail] (Steven Vere) writes:
    The next day in a graduate seminar, his students want to know
    why they should bother finishing the course when it is now all
    useless drivel.  And they're right.

   Nope, they're wrong.  Anyone with a brain (and I'll grant you, this
does not necessarily include all graduate students) would see that the
principles of any advanced technology would have to be learned *after*
learning the "lower level" stuff.  (In fact, students pronounce what
they're taught "useless drivel" all the time.  We call the "dropouts".
Typically, they are not as well rewarded by society as those that
learn the drivel.)

Charles
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11947 alt.alien.visitors:9881 sci.skeptic:31886
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 19:26:49 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Dear Folks: Well it seems that someone in Washington got blasted out of
bed by a person that looked like me and said he was me. Maybe he was
me. This person at 11:19 tuesday the 29th of Sept. was sitting around
doing a little thinking when my presence came around him for about
15 minutes. He then tried to contact me and nearly got blown out of bed.
Sorry about that. There must have been some purpose for it but the
reason excapes me.
John Winston
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11948 alt.alien.visitors:9882 sci.skeptic:31887
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue
From: [e-mail] (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Keywords: Heaven
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:51:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: dec3100c.ccs.northeastern.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
[...]
>Reincarnation (acknowledged nowadays by very many people)

Paul - which people acknowledge this, and do they have any scientific
basis for doing so?

    RA

[e-mail]
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!nwnexus!seanews!eskimo!nanook
From: [e-mail] (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: UFO's and the collapse of civilization...
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04:27:35 GMT
Lines: 34

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
> and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
> discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.

     My belief is that they >ARE< real, thus if it were "established", it would
to me, only be official recognition.  I don't really think I am going
completely ape now, I doubt official recognition would change that much.

     I am concerned about where this is all going to lead.  On earth, anytime
a more technologically advanced civilization has met a less technologically
advanced civilization, it has not been good for the less technologically
advanced civilization.

     Will the extra-terrestrials have morals as we know them?  I tend to think
they would have destroyed themselves before they reached a state of
technological advancement sufficient for inter-stellar travel if they had none.

     So what will it mean for our "civilization" (and I use the term loosely)?

     Some things I would expect to come of it..  I would think that it would
give people a more "global" view of our planet and perhaps then we could start
cooperating to preserve it and stop killing each other.  I suspect the presence
of aliens on this planet would pose some delimas for religious fanatics and
with any luck they would find themselves less in a position of power.

     I also hope that along with technological advancement, alien visitors
might posses some degree of cultural advancement, appreciate art, etc, and
that we might be able to mutually exchange forms of art and views and history.

     I dunno, I think it would be interesting, I don't think it would result
in the total destruction of civilization as we know it though no doubt it will
upset some folks belief systems.

Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9884 sci.skeptic:31895
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!obrien
From: [e-mail] (Robert O'Brien)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:27:44 GMT
Lines: 34

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
>You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural
>against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the
>proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to
>any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on
>public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect
>the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing,
>because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...)


I'd like a 'piece of this action' as well.  Same terms.  I'm willing
to part with $100 if I can be convinced it was configured by some form
of intelligence (~= a beehive would be sufficient)  So long as I can expect
$1 if you, Josh, can be convinced it is some combination of natural terrain
features, shadow, and camera angle.  From your postings, I doubt you are
quite the typical open-minded skeptic, but that just means I'm accepting
what I calculate to be about 100000:1 odds.  Good enough in my opinion.



    Bob O'Brien

No .sig, but if I had one, it *might* say:

"I'm almost *absolutely* convinced space is so vast that there *must* be
(other) intelligent life out there somewhere.  I'm *just as* convinced that
space is so vast that we'll not only never make contact, but never find
even the flimsiest of trace"

then again, it *might* say:

"Intelligent life in the universe?  Not anywhere *I've* seen!"
 -----------

Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9885 sci.skeptic:31896
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jcatesii
From: [e-mail] (James Cates III)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the othe
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <[e-mail]> <schumach.717988616@con
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 10:38:11 GMT
Lines: 24


Richard A. Schumacher wrote:

>You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural
>against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the
>proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to
>any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on
>public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect
>the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing,
>because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...)

    What if it's found to be artificial, but with a keen,
    holographic label on it proclaiming it to be constructed
    entirely of all-natural ingredients?

    How about I get the whole pot then?

          --------
          -----  /                    [e-mail]
             / /  YMURGY software     [e-mail]
           / / ____
           ________===========================)---*


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah
From: [e-mail] (David Harwood)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: VTT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:06:09 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Dinse) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>> and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>> discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
[....]
>
>     I dunno, I think it would be interesting, I don't think it would result
>in the total destruction of civilization as we know it though no doubt it will
>upset some folks belief systems.
>
\\\\\\
Anyway, we find out what are their religious beliefs, and this would
surely have some effect on us. (Who knows what they believe? They may
not be atheists after all. I recall that Augustine speculated that the
visible starry heavens were inhabited by angelic beings. (in his long
book, _The City of God_, as I recall reading long ago). Maybe they are
on better terms with God (?).


Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11952 alt.alien.visitors:9887 sci.skeptic:31900
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!caen!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!psl.wisc.edu!gorski
From: [e-mail] (Tom Gorski)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Keywords: Heaven
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:40:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Lines: 48

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
>
>
>Rajagopalan writes:
>
>        >you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently...
>        >"Heaven" is the presence of God..
>
>which provokes Tom into saying:
>
>        >Man, I'll have to bite on this one.
>
>        >A cute story to be sure, but how do you know this?
>
>Well, when it comes to this kind of question, I can't resist biting either,
>as I've got a copy of the book with all the answers to this kind of question.
>YES. It's called "A Course In Miracles".

I find this very interesting!

I too have a copy of ACIM (although it's currently loaned out to
the Parish Priest), and the reading I get off of it, is that the only
*answer* in the course goes something like "the only answer lies within."
Not really an answer, just a vague pointer of sorts.

Hmmmm...since you have your copy nearby, maybe you'd be willing to try
something for me:

Somewhere in the workbook, in the first two-dozen lessons or so, is
a lesson which goes something like, "I do not know what anything means."
I would be very interested to hear what happens if you pick up and momentarily
do this lesson while you're reading the text, especially when you're reading
those sections which seem to give the exact answers you have in mind above.

Interested?  :-)


As for the rest of your posting about heaven and reincarnation, etc.,
it sounds very wonderful, but from where does it come and what does
it mean?

Peace :-)

>Paul Milsom
>[e-mail]
>Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland

--Tom G.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11954 alt.alien.visitors:9888 sci.skeptic:31901
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!chx400!sparc2!news
From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Heaven
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:16:36 GMT
Lines: 57


Free Radical (RA) asks about reincarnation:

        > Paul - which people acknowledge this, and do they have any
        > scientific basis for doing so?

The people I was referring to are the ones who are what I would have to call
"spiritual" in the western world. There are others, non-spiritual, here too.
There are also apparently several hundreds of millions of believers in
reincarnation in places like India, Tibet, Japan and other countries (Hindus,
Buddhists, Jains). Some rogue Christian churches also still accept this
doctrine, and indeed it was accepted Christian belief until about the 5th
Century, when it was edited from the bible after the decision of a Council.
(They missed two bits.)

        > do they have any scientific basis?

Not that I know of. Is there any for ETs? I have personally spoken to several
people who have had regression into past lives. They were all very credible.
Not sensational at all. My nearest experience was as follows: I met a lady
about three years ago who seemed *incredibly* familiar although I knew I had
never met her before. It really was a strange feeling, especially as I felt I
was somehow regarding her as much younger than she was (she was actually
about 35, but "felt" like about 16, I can't describe it any better). Being
rather careful, I didn't want to "impose" upon her by saying things like
"Don't I know you from somewhere..", (and anyway, I'm very happily married!)
I was wondering if I should try to talk to her when she came up to *me* and
said she felt just like I've described above. I met her again in Findhorn
about a year ago. She'd just returned from the USA and said she'd done a
regression there, and I had been her father in a past life. She told me all
the details. But as soon as she said I had been her father, I recognised that
funny feeling that I'd had - the father feeling. Of course this may all be
considered circumstantial, but (as they say) it's different when it happens
to you.

I personally don't think that regression per se helps much in one's spiritual
development, but it does seem to be an interesting occupation for some people.
I believe there's a wealth of literature on it. By the way, reincarnation is
often associated with the idea of karma. I do not hold with this teaching.
Karma is a typical earthly explanation for reincarnation, but it carries with
it all the hangups of the ego. Karma is like hell. Power over people (or
here, souls). Don't believe it.

We had a discussion a few weeks ago in the group as to whether aliens have
souls. Also in one abduction book, some of the abductees seemed to have been
abducted in a kind of out of body experience. I think W. Strieber had this
experience too.

I have digressed. In fact, this letter has become so long, I have decided to
put it on the net - hope you don't mind.

                    Cheers,   Paul.


Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!nowhere!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard
From: [e-mail] (Craig Becker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:31:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: IBM Object Technology Products
Lines: 42
Originator: [e-mail]


[e-mail] writes:

> i can understand the fear that has been discussed...i have remembered two
> dreams involving aliens and i don't think i've EVER been as scared as in those
> dreams...
> anyone else have some information on this?

[e-mail] (Nick Sabadosh) writes:

> ...I also had an odd dream, about a
> week ago.

[details omitted]

> Anyway, I was wide awake at this point, but experienced that kind of paralysis
> you get when you wake right from REM sleep.  I couldn't move, but my eyes were
> open.  Needless to say, this added to my uneasiness with the situation.
>
> I tried to call to my wife, simply to ask her to roll me over so my leg would
> stop tingling...but all that came out was a muffled groan.  I tried a few more
> times, and eventually she heard me and shook me.  She said she thought I was
>talking in my sleep, and didn't know if it was good or bad and whether she
> should wake me up.  The paralysis left me then, and my leg felt better.

These incidents sound like they might be manifestations of a
common (and harmless) sleep disorder that is called (surprise!)
Sleep Paralysis (also known as "Night Terrors"). The intense
feelings of fear experienced by jtulli are a common "byproduct"
of an attack (as are visual, audio, and/or tactile hallucinations).

I'm prone to Sleep Paralysis myself, and the experience Nick
describes of being unable to call out to his wife is familiar
to me (well, I wasn't trying to call _his_ wife, but you get
the idea :-).

Craig
--
-- "You can expect virtually      Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
--  anything from a people who had      Internet: [e-mail] --
--  nuclear weapons in the early      IBM TR: [e-mail] --
--  seventeenth century."                           VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!ed.ac.uk!Earth
From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Vote - final results
Keywords: vote, spokesman, Earth, results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:06:43 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UseNet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 193

This is the final result of the vote. Some votes were for people other than
the nominees: I left everything in.

PLEASE stop sending votes now. They will be discarded because of the
timestamp, so don't waste your time (and cpu time on my mailserver :-)

40 Kibo
11 Geoff Miller, American
 9 Cicciolina
 9 [e-mail]
 8 Dalai Lama
 3 Carl Sagan
 3 Gene Spafford
 3 James Burke
 3 Mary Shafer
 3 Rick Gordon
 2 Bill Moyers
 2 Idi Amin
 2 Jimmy Carter
 2 John Winston
 2 Laurie Anderson
 2 Robert Sheaffer
 2 William S. Burroughs
 1 Adolf Hitler
 1 BIFF
 1 Brian Eno                       (I guess I should count as 2 votes for
 1 Brian Eno and Peter Gabriel      Brian Eno... not that it makes difference)
 1 Captain Kangaroo
 1 Cindy Crawford
 1 Cyrus Vance
 1 Dan Quayle
 1 Frank Sinatra
 1 Harpo Marx.
 1 Hunter S. Thompson
 1 Jean Luc Picard
 1 Johnny Carson
 1 Margaret Thatcher
 1 Me                    (whoever that is: one of the messages was "Vote: Me")
 1 Mr. Rogers
 1 Ned Ivanov
 1 P. W. Fuzzface
 1 Richard Nixon
 1 Rod Swift
 1 Serge Thill
 1 Stephanie L., Stevie Nicks
 1 Stephen Hawking
 1 Steven Spielberg and George Lucas
 1 Timothy Leary
 1 Umberto Eco

A few votes had a timestamp before Monday 00:00GMT, and I sent a message
to the senders to warn them; other votes had a timestamp after Wednesday
00:00GMT, and had to be discarded. I haven't warned the senders yet..
My program didn't do it automatically and I am a bit busy right now,
perhaps I'll do it during the week-end.

Below is the list of people who voted (If your address does not appear
precisely as you know it, remember that this is how my machine sees
them). The list is in alphabetic order of the username. And, no, I don't
think I am allowed to say who voted for whom.

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Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Richard Joltes)
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:58:06 EDT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Harvard University Science Center
Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu
Lines: 27

[e-mail] (Phil Gustafson) writes:
>[I wrote]
>>
>>"no matter how thin you slice it, it's *still* baloney."
>>
>>                        --Milo Bloom, "Bloom County"
>
>That would be Harry Truman, Dick.

It may be a Truman quote, but Berke stole it for the "Bloom County" strip--it
was the series when a fundamentalist "researcher" approached Milo with his
evidence that Satanic messages could be heard in reversed recordings of rock
records.

One of his transcribings read:

"Devil bunnies...I snort the nose, Lucifer...banana...banana"

Like I said...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dick "or something like that..." Joltes            [e-mail]
Hardware & Networking Manager, Computer Services     [e-mail]
Harvard University Science Center

"Mind you, not as bad as the night Archie Pettigrew ate some
sheep's testicles for a bet...God, that bloody sheep kicked him..."
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11955 alt.alien.visitors:9892 sci.skeptic:31905
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  2 Oct 92 09:15:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 51

Subject: The Aura.
  I must say that the questions that have been coming in lately  have been
very impressive. Please let me share with you what little I have found out
about the aura.
  It seems that the first thing that I did along these lines was to contact a
person down in San Diego, Calif. who claimed that he could heal a person by
the use of a picture. To do this a person was to get in front of a perfectly
white surface (like a garage door) and take their own picture with them
against the door while the sun was shining. This person is now dead due to
natural causes but he said that you were to take the negative of this color
picture and to put it in your wallet and send the positive of this picture
to him.  He would look at the picture and take a look at the aura. While
looking at your picture he would see the aura and determine what colors
would be helpful to put into your aura. Your picture was then put in a small
box with lights of one color at a time. He would radiate your picture with a
particular color for a certain number of hours and the negative inside your
billfold would allow the frequency to zero in on you. I did this with myself
and four sons. I don't know how effective this was because we were all
pretty healthy already but I did notice that the aura did show up as a
different color in each of us. One of my sons who was having a problem in
relating to life turned out to have a very murky, dirty aura. It looked like
someone had smeared some dirt on the garage.
  The next thing that happened in my investigation of the the aura is that I
went to a psychic fair in Sunnyvale, Calif. At this place they had a person
who only used the name Guy taking pictures of people with a aura camera.
This was only a poloroid camera that was used with some sort of frequency
generator.  The generator would send out a frequency that would beat with
the color freq. of your aura producing another frequency that could be
picked up by the camera but not seen by you yourself. I asked Guy where he
had obtained the camera and he gave me some story about buying it off a
person from Russia and the person from Russia not coming back to America
again.  I felt he was not wanting to talk about it and wanted to just get
rid of me the best way he could.
   Several year later I went to a UFO convention (where people who are
interested in the study of UFOs come together) in Phenoix, Ariz. At that
place there was a person using an improved camera set up who claimed that he
had rented the system from a person called Guy. He gave me Guy's address, I
contacted Guy again and did an interview with him. At that time he had
several ways to see the aura. The best of these was to put a person in front
of some sort of screen that looked like a screen for viewing color slides.
Next a regular incadesent light was turned on beside the person. A computer
system was set up which operated a device that looked like a color
generator. This was all turned on while the person being viewed placed each
hand on  electrodes of some sort. So in this case you could see the aura
with your regualar eyesight on the screen behind the person. You could also
see your own aura on a seperate T.V. viewer that was part of the system if
you were being viewed.
  We observed and video taped a young lady and the response of her aura as she
thought about things that were funny and things that were sexy and they did
come out in different colors immediately.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11956 alt.alien.visitors:9893
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  2 Oct 92 09:17:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 61

1>+L

Subject: Portal. Part 6.
This is used when a person sees that he is doing something wrong and changes
his way of living.  With the use of this portal machine a person could do
this same thing.  I don't know who did it in this case of the story in the
bible, it may have just been God doing it but this portal machine could be
how it was accomplished.
  Next of all during World War 2 (during the approximated time that these
people were checking out Rainbow City) there was a thing that was happening
throughout the world.  Little signs were being put on everyting that looked
like a man's face looking over a fence and under it the words were placed
"Kilroy Was Here". These drawings were placed everywhere giving you the
impression that a person named Kilroy had been there and had left this
painting.  After a while other people saw the humor in it and started
drawing the pictures in different places themselves.  I'm just saying that
it could have been this person by the name of Kilroy using this portal
machine that got it going.   Some of these drawings would be put in places
that it would be very hard for a person to paint them, like up the side of a
hill or other unaccessible spots.
  One of the more technical things that they did back durintg this
investigation was to build a space craft. They powered it with hydrogen.  I
don't want to boar you people that are not technically inclined but they did
it by using water which consists of hydrogen and oxygen, using a process
called hydrolization which seperates hydrogen from water.  They used a high
voltage like is produced by a Tesla Coil and produced hydrogen. You probubly
know that hydrogen is a very explosive gas and now we have cars modified so
we can run them on hydrogen  Many of our scientist now think that a person
needs so much energy to extract the hydrogen that you could never do the
process on a car economically but these people claimed to  have done it in
that area.  That would be a good trick to run a car or airplane on water.
Don't laugh too hard because there are a few scientist and inventers who say
they can or will be able to do this very soon.
  So this is another source of UFOs. If your not keeping track let's see how
many sources we've found for UFOs; 1. Mount Shasta. 2. Venus. 3. Rainbow
City and 4. Spiritual beings.  Some space people from the Pleiades were once
asked how many place they figured UFOs came from and they said that they
knew of 108 different civilizations that have visited the Earth.
  In the past I sent this information to a young man by the name of David
Dorycott in San Antonio, Texas. David is a regular young man now and in the
past he has taken many rides on a space craft with some people from Legart
in the constellation Lystra. These people had a space pilot by the name of
Jarton who read this information about Rainbow City and took the information
back to his home planet. They did a story on their communication system like
our TV system and porjected it to 3 of their planets each of which had 3
billion people. So I guess you would call that reaching out and touching
someone.
End Part 6.
John Winstonhis very soon.
  So this is another source of UFOL
wZ

22@8
"e8ZFMu8],M9z%,
xax0xxQx3
x@
xN
xb|`Eh
"e8ZFMu8],M9z%,
0Roman 10cpi8 different civilizations that have visited the Earth.
  In the past I sent this information to a young man
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!stafford.winona.msus.edu!user
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (John Stafford)
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:24:49 -0600
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS
Nntp-Posting-Host: stafford.winona.msus.edu
Lines: 8

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steven
Vere) wrote:
>   How  is  our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this?  For
> him  it is a personal  CATASTROPHE!  Yes, he would  like  to learn the
> secrets of the universe,  but his  life is  in ruins.  Superconduction
> theory is now irrelevant,  childlike.

Heavens!  He might have to revert to _learning_ and _teaching_ again!
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495
From: [e-mail] (Christopher James Rogers)
Subject: Re: Auras
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:04:33 GMT
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras.  If this is a
>figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one.
>
>Kathie G.  ;.)

Some humans (and other creatures) have the special ability to see auras.  An
aura is psycic energy, but not neccessarily mystical.  It is a form of energy
like any other.  If dogs can see into higher wavelengths, then I belive it is
possible to see auras.


Later!
C J Rogers
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From: [e-mail] (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Vote - final results
Keywords: vote, spokesman, Earth, results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:01:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Edinburgh University
Lines: 9

[e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli) writes:

It's a fix!!!!

My vote for Gary Stollman didn't appear.

What kind of conspiracy is this?????

FoFP
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9897 sci.skeptic:31912
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:49:59 GMT
Lines: 44


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert O'Brien) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
>>You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural
>>against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the
>>proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to
>>any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on
>>public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect
>>the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing,
>>because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...)
>
>
>I'd like a 'piece of this action' as well.  Same terms.  I'm willing
>to part with $100 if I can be convinced it was configured by some form
>of intelligence (~= a beehive would be sufficient)  So long as I can expect
>$1 if you, Josh, can be convinced it is some combination of natural terrain
>features, shadow, and camera angle.  From your postings, I doubt you are
>quite the typical open-minded skeptic, but that just means I'm accepting
>what I calculate to be about 100000:1 odds.  Good enough in my opinion.
>
>
>
>    Bob O'Brien
>
>No .sig, but if I had one, it *might* say:
>
>"I'm almost *absolutely* convinced space is so vast that there *must* be
>(other) intelligent life out there somewhere.  I'm *just as* convinced that
>space is so vast that we'll not only never make contact, but never find
>even the flimsiest of trace"
>
>then again, it *might* say:
>
>"Intelligent life in the universe?  Not anywhere *I've* seen!"
> -----------
>

Can I get a piece of this too? :-)

I'll go even farther... I'll bet that the proof turns out to be that
there are *many* faces found.. not just one.. how's that for proof?

Mary

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Vallee's Revelations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:55:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 38


 > Reading the book has provided a psychological attenuator for
 > much of the Cooper/Lear/UMMO/Pleidian/fill in your own fringe group
 > noise that has threatened to drown any interest I may have had in
 > the UFO phenomenon.
 >
 > Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take
 > one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their
 > participants.  Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people
 > that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not
 > have.  Then he asks the hard questions.
 >
 > For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out
 > the garbage?"  "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites
 > picked any traces of this base?" etc.
 >
 > Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason
 > for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of
 > Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges.  However, the
 > reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation
 > campaign cannot be firmly grasped.
 >
 > So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your
 > kill file is getting larger and larger.

I second this, and wish to add a couple of comments.  Although most people
seem to react negatively to Vallee and his theories, I feel that he is one of
the most intelligent researchers and thinkers in the field in a very long
time, and ranks right up with the likes of Allen Hynek and James McDonald.
The reason is that Jacques has attempted to look at the phenomenon from a much
larger perspective than the narrow perspectives we see so much of today.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 02:00:02 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 59


 > >Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take
 > >one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their
 > >participants.  Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people
 > >that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not
 > >have.  Then he asks the hard questions.
 > >
 > >For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out
 > >the garbage?"  "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites
 > >picked any traces of this base?" etc.
 >
 > I have not read the book, but seems like we KNOW there is a base there,
 > so these arguments seem fairly beyond reason...
 > It's really just a matter of  WHAT are they doing there, and what
 > kinds of vehicles are test flown there?

How do we KNOW that there is an *underground* base there?  We don't, unless
you know something that we don't.  Area 51 exists, but even we don't know the
extent of what that implies.

 > >Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason
 > >for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of
 > >Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges.  However, the
 > >reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation
 > >campaign cannot be firmly grasped.
 >
 > Of course there is a lot of disinformation regarding these issues. It is
 > fairly common knoledge that the ONI and CIA are constanly feuding and
 > that Cooper has Navy connections and Lear has CIA connections, but it
 > is also that wisps of the truth slip out along with the
 > disinformation...
 > JV didn't come up with this on his own, it's well known.

The idea of disinformation is to disinform and send researchers off into the
"wild blue yonder" looking for something that is not there.  With this in
mind, we must concentrate on what it is that we are originally looking for:
proof that saucers exist and if so, what are they and where are they from.
This must be done using scientific methodology rather than a bunch of
speculation passed off as fact.

 > >So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your
 > >kill file is getting larger and larger.
 >
 > I have said this before to several people and will repeat it here:
 >
 > JV is not main-stream. He is a loaner, predisposed to many ideas that
 > the community of UFO researchers would not always agree with, so keep
 > that in mind when you read his books. He is highly opinionated, and
 > could quite possibly be very misguided in his conclusions...

I totally disagree with this statement.  Can you prove these statements about
Jacques' research?

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Paraaaaaaaaade of Shoooooooooes)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Vote - final results
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:57:58
Organization: DeityCo: Major and Minor Deities Placement Agency
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: planet10.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 2 Oct 92 15:06:43 GMT

>>>>> On 2 Oct 92 15:06:43 GMT, [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli) said:

[Lots of vote results, the gist being that Kibo won deleted.]

As a runner-up, I'd like to be among the first to congratulate Kibo on his
winning this election.  I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors.

-lightnin

    /| Lightning: (n) A Force of Nature consisting of an electric discharge.
   / |_Virtual Enterprises, GmbH: Bureaucracy Inaction!
  /_  /=======================================================================
   / / |Up the long ladder, and down the short rope,       |Email:
  / /_ |to Hell with King Billy, and God bless the Pope,   |lightnin
 /_  / |if that doesn't do, we'll tear him in two,         |@wpi.wpi.edu
  / /  |and send him to Hell with his red, white, and blue.|__________________
 / /   |                                    -Traditional Irish Children's Song
/ /===========================================================================
|/ "Dark is not one of my favorite colors." -Ralph, the All Purpose Animal.


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From: [e-mail] (Rich Holmes)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 02:21:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.religion.kibology
Organization: Syracuse University
Lines: 18
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Thu,  1 Oct 92 06:49:23 PDT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Dear Folks: Some people may like to call this the end times and that
>is OK, because it is the end of the age. The bible says that Jesus
>said I'll be with you to the end of the world, and it did say this
>in the King James version of the bible but in the original text it
>says, I will be with you to the end of the age. We're just getting
>started folks, hold on to your hats. It may get a little bumpy before
>we get to smooth sailing.
>John Winston.

Is that why our data acquisition computer keeps crashing?

--
- Rich Holmes
"In general, the dance music of P.D.Q. Bach -- although we have no
 documentary evidence of this -- suggests that one of his legs was
 shorter than the other." -- Prof. Peter Schickele
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11960 alt.alien.visitors:9902 sci.skeptic:31919
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  2 Oct 92 13:18:30 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 62

1>+_

Subject: Dolphin Spills The Beans.
  As most of you know scientist have been working for a long time to try to
communicate with dolphins. Just lately a person using a computer was
successful in figuring out most of the dolphin's chips and other sounds.
  Here are some of the questions and answers put to a 4 year old dolphin they
call Adonis; Dr. Jones: Good morning, Adonis, are you ready to chat? Adonis:
Good morning doctor. Yes, I have much to say. Dr. Jones: Tell me what it's
like to live in the sea. Adonis: It's a fantastic place to be. My friends
and I love the freedom and the wide open spaces. In fact, I hope you plan to
return me there soon.  The time spent here has been good, but I miss my
family and friends. Dr. Jones: I wasn't aware. If you promise to return for
future talk, I'll get you back soon. Now tell us how you view man. Adonis:
We;re quite envious of you ability to live on land and in water. I'd also
love to have a pair of arms and hands. It can be aggravating trying to
(unintelligible)..but fingers would solve that problem. Dr. Jones:  Is there
anything important you'd like to share with us?  Adonis: A major earthquake
will strike halfway round the world in 1993.  Dr. Jones: you mean on the
west coast of the United States? Adonis: Yes, I believe it's the area humans
call Caifornia. It will be devastating.  Dr. Jones Do you have any good news
to share? Adonis: Hmm, yes, now that you mention it . That illness you call
cancer can be cured with medication made from special seaweed.  On a future
visit I will bring you some.  Dr. Jones: That would be wonderful Now tell me
something. Are their mermaids? Adonis: Of course there are. The best place
to find them is the Mediterranean. But they thrive in most warm weather
regions and their not as good liooking as you think they are. Dr. Jones:
What kind of problems face dolphins? Adonis: Pollution is the biggest one.
The ocean used to be a great place to live, but it's loaded with chemicals,
human waste and all sorts of trash now. I've seen dolphins with awful sores
caused by this.  Dr. Jones: What else bothers dolphins.  Adonis: Your
heartless fishermen who don't care if we get caught up in their nets and
die. Dr. Jones: What does a dolphin do for fun? Adonis:  We like to cruise
the soreline looking for humans out for a swim. It's fun to watch men and
women from below. Shame on some of you who treat the ocean like their toilet
or who sneak a bit of sex in the surf. Dr. Jones: Are there any other sea
dwellers as smart as dolphins? Adonis: Not really. Most fish are as dumb as
a (unintelligible).  Why do you think we take to humans as much as we do?
It's because you're second to us in the smarts department. Dr. Jones: Aren't
we exaggerating a bit? Adonis: Not a bit. At least we're smart enough to
keep our home clean. Humans have polluted both their own homeland and our
seas. Tell me that's not a stupid thing to do. Dr. Jones: Good point. You're
a very observant creature. It's been enlightening chatting with you.
Adonis: Thank you doctor.  One more thing. Get rid of that tie. It makes you
look like a (unintelligible)... Remember, the time is coming for me to go
home again.  I'll come back though with other volunteers.
  So that's it folks. Would a dolphin lie?
John Winston
to cruise the soreling looking fo_
wZ



,E9z,$xx%
xQ
x_
xa

,
E9z,<
0Roman 10cpia (unintelligible).  Why do you think we take to humans as
much as we do? It's because you're second to us in
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Vote - final results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Keywords: vote, spokesman, Earth, results
Organization: Netcom - All the News, All the Time
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:21:58 GMT
Lines: 15

Now that the process has run its course, it's time for congratulations
to the new Spokesman for Earth, and a hearty "Nice try" to all the
other candidates who were as dust under the wheels of the inexorable
Kibological Leadership.  I'm sure we can put the trust of the peoples of
Earth in the hands and feet of our new Spokesman.

Kibo will be permitted to include "Spokesman for Earth" on his resume,
his business cards, and on any campaign material he might produce in
aid of the upcoming US elections.

Speech!

--
Rick Gordon      | "Often in error, never in doubt."
[e-mail] |   --- Universal Marketing Department motto
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From: [e-mail] (Kurt P Linebaugh)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 ---> October2, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:03:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Michigan State University
Lines: 6

Today is October 2, 1992--  three months from July 4, 1992.  I am sick and
tired of seeing this subject.  GIVE IT A REST!
_

Kurt P. Linebaugh
[e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11962 alt.alien.visitors:9905 sci.skeptic:31926
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 21:54:20 GMT
Lines: 33

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
[...]
|>
|> Subject: Dolphin Spills The Beans.
|>   As most of you know scientist have been working for a long time to try to
|> communicate with dolphins. Just lately a person using a computer was
[...]
|>   So that's it folks. Would a dolphin lie?
|> John Winston
[...]



Thanks John,

That was the most fun I've had in days. The part that really amused me
was the (unintelligible) parts ;^)


Leonard.


P.S> I noticed the "Subject: Dolphin Spills The Beans." line burried in
     the post. If you can only get it into the header we can get rid of
     the annoying "Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day"
     subject once and for all.


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Kari Nenonen)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:37:37 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi
Lines: 12

*>I'll go even farther... I'll bet that the proof turns out to be that
*>there are *many* faces found.. not just one.. how's that for proof?

That's poor for proof. We are tended to see human faces in different
formations; its in our psychologic construction. The first figure that a new
born baby recognize is human face. If we adults see a figure that's not
familiar, we start instictively look for human face in it - and in most
cases we find it.
--
    * [e-mail]  *  * Mr  Kari Nenonen *
                  * Helsinki - Finland *

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 21:21:17 GMT
Lines: 44

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:

[...]

[someone else was saying this next bit]
|>  >
|>  > JV is not main-stream. He is a loaner, predisposed to many ideas that
|>  > the community of UFO researchers would not always agree with, so keep
|>  > that in mind when you read his books. He is highly opinionated, and
|>  > could quite possibly be very misguided in his conclusions...
|>
[Michael's response]
|> I totally disagree with this statement.  Can you prove these statements about
|> Jacques' research?
|>
|> Mike
|>
[...]

Having read the last 4 or 5 of Vallee's books, I would tend to agree that
he holds unorthodox theories and is *highly* opinionated. The idea that he
might be wrong just goes with the territory.

Vallee (in _Revelations_) gave me the impression that he thought he was the
only UFO researcher with a brain and everyone else was incompetent or worse.
He seemed quite hostile and self-satisfied and it kind of got on my nerves.
Some of his arguments against other peoples research seemed to carry too much
emotional baggage for my tastes.

That being said, (and being my *subjective* opinion of course) I have a lot
of respect for him and I tend to agree with a lot of his opinions. I highly
recommend his books. I feel his research is well thought out and carefully
executed. I like his methodology and his questioning of preconcieved notions
(like the ETH), I just don't like his "style" ;^)



Leonard.

--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail]
Date: Fri,  2 Oct 92 17:07:53 PDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 72

1>+|
!Subject: Space Gold. Part 2.
  Let me before going further in the story inform you that there are two
things that are bad news about this situation.  The three people who told
this story went to try to find this city but never returned again.  The mine
and tunnel that the person fell into has been changed  by a large rain storm
so they couldn't find it again.
  One bit of good newws is that there is another entrance into the city and
its location should be easy to find.  When our prospectors found the city
they found that there were arches that opened up on the side of the mountain
and as you look out of these arches you can see the Furnace Creek Ranch and
the green area of Furance Creek.  This is an area that I'm farmiliar with
and I've been to the area before.  As I was in the area a few years ago I
had sort of a psychic pick up about the area.  This has happened more than
once before.  This happens when there is something about an area that I am
supposed to investigate. A bit more bad news about the area is that people
have gone to the area of Furnace Creek Ranch and looked up in the direction
of the Panamint  Mountains and didn't see any arches with binoculars.  Call
me a dreamer but I believe that a person can look at the mountains and make
out the water line just like it can be seen in the Salton  Sea, Calif area
and with this information find the entrance.
  I am well equipped for this sort of investigation in that I have a 1982
toyota 4X4 pickup, with a CB base station radio. I also have a honda 90
trail bike. Who knows this winter I may give it a try.
  The American Indians know a lot about this area of Calif. and a Paiute
Indian once told something about the are, these are his words; You ask me if
we heard of the great airships in the days before the white man brought his
wagon trains into the land? We, of the Paiute Nation, have known of these
ships for untold generations.  We also believe that we know something of the
people who fly them.. They are call The Hav=musuvs.  They are a people of
the Panamints and they are as ancient as Tomesha itself.  When the world was
young and this valley which is now dry, parched desert, was a lush, hidden
harbor of a blue water-sea which stretched from half up those mountains to
the Gulf of California, it is said that he Hav=musuvs came here in huge
rowing ships.  They found the caverns in the Panamints, and in them they
built one of their cities.  At that time California was a land which the
Indians of the state told the Spanish it was, and which they marked so on
their maps.
  Living in their hidden city, the Hav-musuvs ruled the sea with their fast
rowing ships, trading with far-away peoples and bringing strange goods to
the great quays said still to exist in the caverns.
  Then over a long period of time the water dried up. First the way was broken
only by the southern mountains over the tops of which goods could be
carried. But as time went by, then the area became a desert.
  When the Hav-musuvs could no longer use their great rowing-ships, they began
to think of other means to reach the world beyond, I suppose that is how it
happened.  We know that they began to use flying canoes.  At first they were
not large these silvery ships.  They moved with a slight whirring sound and
a dipping movement, like an eagle.
  They are beautiful people.  Their skin is a golden tint and a head band
holds back their long dark hair. They dress always in a white fine spun
garment which wraps around them and is draped upon one shoulder. Pale
sandals are worn under their feet.
  So this is me speaking again. So there you have it folks. Would an American
Indian lie?
End of Story.
John Winston.



55
,
PA

9cJK,x
lxmx7xx[x.
x

9cJK,<

0Roman 10cpin.  The three people who told this story went to try to find
this city but never returned again.  The mine an
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:51:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 8


    [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:
    I second this, and wish to add a couple of comments.

... I third it.  JV is very readable writer, and says a lot of
interesting things.

Charles
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: He's Baaack!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:50:11 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 11
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu

I know this properly belongs in the startrek group, but I couldn't
resist posting it here, recalling all the posts awhile back saying
Perot was an alien stooge...

Does anyone else think that Perot bears an uncanny resemblence to
a Ferengi (those "lovable" Used-Car-Salesmen-of-the-Galaxy tm)?

no offense intended to real used car salesmen, of course  :-).

Kellie M-S
internet::[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Erik Radmall)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Keywords: Heaven
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:32:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Erik Radmall)
Organization: Xerox
Lines: 31

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
|>
|> Free Radical (RA) asks about reincarnation:
|>
|>         > Paul - which people acknowledge this, and do they have any
|>         > scientific basis for doing so?
|>
|> The people I was referring to are the ones who are what I would have to call
|> "spiritual" in the western world. There are others, non-spiritual, here too.
|> There are also apparently several hundreds of millions of believers in
|> reincarnation in places like India, Tibet, Japan and other countries (Hindus,
|> Buddhists, Jains). Some rogue Christian churches also still accept this
|> doctrine, and indeed it was accepted Christian belief until about the 5th
|> Century, when it was edited from the bible after the decision of a Council.

    What evidence do you have that reincarnation was accepted before the
    5th century by Christians? Who edited it? What council decided it?
    What did the Bible originally say?
    (no flames please - these are simply questions for references, not an attack).
|>
    [much deleted]
|>                     Cheers,   Paul.
|>
|> [e-mail]
|> Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Erik Radmall                    | Xerox Corp.
[e-mail]    | Knowledge-Based Systems Competency Center
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: **GREY OCTOBER**
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:44:26 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 50

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kevlar) writes:
>
>
>
>      HERE IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL FEAR.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>OCTOBER SURPISE????
>
>You Fools! Perot is a Grey.
>How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech.
>Why did he suddenly decide to run?
>Why is he so secretive?
>Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes President?
>Why is he so scared of the press?
>Why does he want to hook up the country electronically?
>Who is he really reporting to?
>
>Is he really running for office? of course he is!!
>
>I think it is clear what his plans were.
>He is going to gain the Presidency. Clear the way for the Grey invasion.
>And kick back with a Miller in a human free world.
>
>Scared Yet?
>You should be!
>
>
>(reposted from a previous article)
>

Tell me...how many of them brewski's did you consume before you posted
this missive of wisdom? :-)

Ross Perot *win* the election??? You better go look at the polls
and read them carefully..Perot will be damned lucky to get 6% of
the vote (if that). NO ONE LIKES A QUITTER!

I predict that Clinton will win by a HUGE margin..time to get a job
lined up for Quayle <smirk>..of course Bush will end up at the UN in
the employ of his Rockefeller masters...mark my words :-)

Don


--
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
[e-mail] - Internet   1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight
88:4205/1.1  - MUFON Network  1:3607/20.2  -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net
NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9913 alt.politics.kibo:172 alt.religion.kibology:4056
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From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo!  Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:43:42 GMT
Lines: 104

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Rick Gordon of Netcom, who instigated this whole thing, has called for Kibo
>to give an acceptance speech in alt.alien.visitors.  He also says that Kibo
>may list his new title on his business card and in campaign literature for
>the upcoming presidential election.

Oh, foo, now I have to redeisgn my card AGAIN!

>When I nominated Kibo for this position, I was concerned about the short
>notice and time period for voting.  I think all the people out there who
>worked so hard to get out the vote for Leader Kibo should give themselves
>a pat on the back for a job well done!

If you are unable to do so due to single-jointedness, drop by and I will
give you a pat on the back.

>40 Kibo
>11 Geoff Miller, American
> 9 Cicciolina
> 9 [e-mail]
> 8 Dalai Lama
> 3 Carl Sagan [etc., etc.]

SPEECH, ACCEPTANCE, STANDARD: ONE
=================================

"Ladies, and gentlemen (in no particular order), I thank you for voting
for me, because in so doing you have voted for yourselves, although
your selves have also vote for me, but I also voted for me, so I really
voted for you.  However, this is in no way concerned with the
ever-pressing problem of bad typography.
    "Because I am Kurt Vonnegut's evil twin, I must digress.  Here is the
shortest story I have ever written."

             THE BRADY BUNCH GETS STRANDED ON GILLIGAN'S ISLAND
             WITH THE THREE STOOGES:

             No.

    "As far as I know, that is the only story which is only two letters
long.  It contains no swears and is absolutely politically correct.
Pfeh!  I am not politically correct.  I am politically perfect.  Thus, I
will not admit to ever having seen the Brady Bunch episode where Marcia
gets hit in the face with a football, because I am the reputable
Spokesman For The Whole Wide Earth.
    "I have a Whole Earth Catalog in my lap.  It keeps me from getting
burned by my soup.  My soup is a multiethnic delight of kosher peas with
daringly nonkosher Spam.  Of course, some would say that the peas would
no longer be kosher, because they had come in contact with the Spam.  To
this I say: Spam Is Kosher!  All you have to do is eat all the carbon
atoms first.  Carbon is kosher.  Then eat all the oxygen atoms, then the
hydrogen atoms, and so on down to the traces of radioactive strontium.
It all goes to the same place, so it is just like eating Spam, but you
are spared the insufferable delight of eating something verboten."
    "Then again, if you look at it another way, everything is
non-kosher, because somehwere, ten thousand years ago, a pig died and
turned to dust, and one of his atoms migrated into the ground, where it
wound up in a pea plant, and therefore my peas all have microscopic bits
of pig in them.  Clearly, a new classification for food is called for.
I'm glad I don't worry about such things.
    "Back to the subject.  The subject of this speech, as you have
noticed, is my spokesmanliness.  Notice as I say that word that I sound
just like Adam West.  I had a class in that.  It was the lowest level of
speech class: In 'Voice And Articulation' we did not make speeches.  We
practiced saying single vowels and consonants.  On one day we worked on
the schwa.  Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.  Another day we did the eng: ding, dong,
dung, sing, sang, sung.  Eventually we worked our way up to nasalized
pairs of vowels and consonants:  Nancy, hand the man the dandy candy.
Say that exciting little phrase ten million times and you, too, can
sound like Adam West!
    "If only all problems were that much fun to solve.
    "As I see it, the only problem I will have to face as Spokesman For
Earth, is, who do I talk to?  We don't know where the aliens are or even
if they're listening.  I could just go to a mountain and stand there and
shout, 'Hey you guys!  I'm spokesman for this planet!  You can probably
see it from where you are, if you can hear me!  Hello?  Is anyone
there?'  Or I could dial random numbers on the phone and ask, 'Hello,
may I speak to any alien beings who might be at home?'  Clearly, I must
wait until we know who to talk to before I can talk to them
intelligently.
    "And what intelligent phrase would the aliens say to us to introduce
themselves?
    "They would probably have learned English by watching our
television.  I suppose a small group of aliens would probably land in
the capital.  The leader would step up to the President, and say in his
best Adam-West style voice: 'Quick, Robin, to the Batcave!'.  The second
alien would whine, 'He was just taking advantage of a conveeeenient local
legend!' while the third said 'Just the facts, ma'am.'  Now, these
aliens, for all intents and purposes, would be conforming to the norms
of our society as broadcast into deep space.
    "Clearly, I am the person most suited to communicate with them.  Not
only have I seen Stephen Hawking's movie, but I've also seen the episode
of 'Perfect Strangers' where Balki and Larry bake cookies that explode.
I know the Pythagoream Theorem, and that Don Adams wears elevator shoes.
I've seen the fall of Communism and the farewell of Johnny Carson.  And
I want to talk about it.
    "Bring on the aliens.  And if they try to eat me, I'll just stare
them squarely in the five eyes and say: 'You can't eat me.  I'm the only
man who knows which "Brady Bunch" episode has the scene where they leave
in the blue car and come back in the brown station wagon.'
    "Bring them on, bring them on, bring them on!"

                        -- Kibo Vonnegut Jr.

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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Auras
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Oct 92 06:30:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
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 > As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras.  If this
 > is a
 > figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one.

Usually that signals the onset of diabetes.  :-)

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat,  3 Oct 92 07:15:55 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 9

Dear Folks: The council that was held to change the bible was called
The Council of Nice. The word is spelled Nice but it is pronounced
Nicea. Today is saturday and Lord willing I'll be taking off for Mt.
Shasta in an hour or two. I wish that you all could take a drink from
the 120 feet deep well that is on our property, it's really taste good.
It would also be good if you could look up at the stars at night and
see the sky from an altitude of 4,490 feet. You can see more stars
than you ever dreamed possible. See  you on about tuesday.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11967 alt.alien.visitors:9916 alt.religion.kibology:4060
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat,  3 Oct 92 07:21:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5
 .tellabs.com> <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Everbody: Thanks for your patience (Mike) I'm taking off for
Mt. Shasta now and should be back on tuesday or wednesday.
John Winston
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!scsuc.ctstateu.edu!thompson
From: [e-mail]
Subject: alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: scsuc.ctstateu.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 18:04:57 GMT

ALL THAT TALK ABOUT GOING TO KINDERGARTEN WAS JUST HYPOTHETICAL RIGHT MAN, I
FAILED KINDERGARTEN, I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK.  SO IF ALIENS DO COME AND FOR
SOME REASON WANT TO "ENLIGHTEN" US POOR BACKWARD HUMANS, I SAY SERVE THEM
DINNER AND ASK THEM TO GO.





















Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9918 alt.paranormal:5859
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!jls19
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 12:51:48 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject:    Eastern UFO Symposium
Lines: 148

No, there isn't one planned. The question is: why not?  If they can do it
at Berkeley, why can't we coordinate something like that here?  After my
letter you will find the posting about the Berkeley Symposium.  I'd like to
propose that somehow we bring about a similar symposium here in the east,
preferably in PA, since that 's where I live.  Why does CA and the West have
everything?

This is a call for ideas, volunteers, speakers, workers, locations, helpers,
attendees, any and all who want to get involved!  Please reply either via
private email or let's get this discussion going here, alright?

Janet Smith

From: [e-mail] (David Jones)
Subject: Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Nntp-Posting-Host: erra
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:57:06 GMT
Lines: 124


 ############################################################################
 #     The following is sent as a public service announcement and is for    #
 #   informational purposes only.  I am not receiving any renumeration for  #
 #     helping to inform the public in this regards.  I will be happy to    #
 #          answer any questions about the below that you may have.         #
 #                                                                          #
 #    Thank you.  David W. Jones   [e-mail]   OR   uunet!wrs!davidj   #
 ############################################################################

          The Society for the Advancement of Civilization Presents:

             Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message

                 Saturday, October 10, 1992 10:00am to 9:30pm
                 Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley
                 At Gayley Road across from the Greek Theater

A public forum on the legitimate scientific  inquiry  into  one  of  the  most
controversial  issues  facing our planet today. Why does extraterrestrial con-
tact have value for the people of  Earth?  There  are  increasing  numbers  of
aware,  articulate  people  from  a variety of professional and cultural back-
grounds who have been contacted by extraterrestrials. Come, hear and  meet  an
impressive   group  of  research  experts  and  persons  who  have  had  close
encounters.

R. Leo Sprinkle, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of Psychology, University of  Wyom-
ing, Laramie, where he was director of counseling services, and founder of the
Institute for UFO Contactee Studies, is an early investigator of  hundreds  of
Close  Encounter  cases beginning in 1955. He served with APRO as a consultant
for psychology and is the principle investigator of the John Salter  case.  He
is the organizer of the Annual Rocky Mountain UFO Conference.

James A. Harder, Ph. D., Professor Emeritus  of  Engineering,  U.C.  Berkeley,
pioneered  the  use  of  hypnosis in close-encounter cases since 1962, and the
study of E.T./human interactions and their influences on this planet. He  will
describe  emerging information about the characteristics of advanced civiliza-
tions and how this information could help inspire us to a more hopeful view of
Earth.

John Salter, Ph. D., Professor of Indian Studies Univ. of North  Dakota,  will
lead  several people with close encounter experiences in a round table discus-
sion. Dr. Salter will also tell of  his  own  continuing  encounters.  He  was
featured  in  the May 1991, CBS prime time special "Visitors from the Unknown"
He teaches a very popular university  course  which  accepts  the  reality  of
extraterrestrial contact.

Richard F. Haines, Ph.D., Psychologist and research scientist. His interest in
discovering  the  core  nature  of  UFO phenomenon spans 20 years with special
interest in sightings by pilots, photo analysis, and CE4. He recently  founded
and co-directs the Joint American- Soviet Aerial Anomaly Federation.

Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D., A psychologist in private practice. He has  assisted
in the understanding and the integration of ET experiences into everyday life.
He will speak about the "mind field" of new information developing  for  those
with extraterrestrial close encounters and for the Society of Planet Earth.

Cathy W., A California person with some very interesting close encounters, and
whose    events    were    thoroughly    recorded    by    a    well-    known
researcher/investigator. Her experiences were shown  in  a  documentary  on  a
prime-time NBC program.

A special two hour question and answer period in the evening will be hosted by
the participants in the above program.

A special multi-media presentation of ET close encounter experiences will also
be presented.

Doors open at 9:15 am. Events begin at 10:00 am and end at 9:30  pm.  Cost  is
$30.00.  Free  educational  video  with  reservations received by October 6th,
1992.

Seating is limited, so please reserve your seats in advance. Priority is given
to  those  who  have  paid  advance reservations & who have arrived by 9:45am.
Tickets will be sold at the door. Please no video/tape recording.  Videos  and
tapes will be made available to attendees at the forum.

=============================================================================

            Extraterrestrial Contact: The Meaning and the Message

               Saturday, October 10, 1992, 10:00 am to 9:30 pm
                 Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley

An open forum presented by the Society for the Advancement of Civilization,  a
not  for  profit corporation formed to study extraterrestrial civilizations as
they may pertain to the future of Earth and to create an environment  for  all
those  interested  in  extraterrestrial  contact  to  share  with others their
experiences and viewpoints in an open and non-threatening atmosphere.

Directions: From hiway 80, take the University  Avenue  turnoff  in  Berkeley,
east,  toward  the hills. Turn left on Oxford, go two blocks and turn right on
Hearst Avenue. The parking garage is 6 blocks up Hearst. Turn right on  Gayley
Road  (it  will  be La Loma to your left) and go about two blocks, across from
the Greek Theater, on your right, a round short building.

We have reserved 100 spaces at the parking garage (marked H above) located  at
the  corner  of  La Loma Avenue and Hearst Avenue, on a first-come first-serve
basis. Parking in this garage will be $3.00 for the full day. Show the  atten-
dant  this flyer, or tell them that you will be attending the Extraterrestrial
Contact symposium. We encourage everyone to bring a bag lunch and eat with one
another  on  campus  in  one of the many tree lined grassy park areas. We will
provide a map of local restaurants for your convenience for those who wish  to
eat out.   For more information, call  [phone]  or [phone] after
October 1st.

Sponsored by The Society for the Advancement of Civilization & The First  Sun-
day Study Group

Please reserve ________ seats at $30.00 each
(tickets and your free educational video to be picked up at the door) for:

Name ___________________________ Street
_________________________________________

City ___________________________ Zip __________ Phone
___________________________

Make checks payable to: Berkeley Symposium
Checks must be received by October 6th, 1992

Send to: Berkeley Symposium
         P.O. Box 9073
         Berkeley, CA 94709-9073

------------------------------------- EOF --------------------------------------
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11969 alt.alien.visitors:9919 sci.skeptic:31964
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!gatech!ncar!noao!arizona.edu!skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu!lippard
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (James J. Lippard)
Date: 3 Oct 1992 11:21 MST
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Keywords: Heaven
Nntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes...
>Well, when it comes to this kind of question, I can't resist biting either,
>as I've got a copy of the book with all the answers to this kind of question.
>YES. It's called "A Course In Miracles". With "Heaven", we have to define our
>terms. There does seem to be a state ("level") like John mentioned, where
>you're in a wonderful "country", and everybody is happy and loving. I heard
>Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland

Please see Martin Gardner's column in the latest issue of the _Skeptical
Inquirer_ for the details on _A Course in Miracles_.

Jim Lippard              [e-mail]
Dept. of Philosophy      [e-mail]
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11970 alt.alien.visitors:9920 sci.skeptic:31966
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!lll-winken!bu.edu!wang!news
From: [e-mail] (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:52:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Lines: 14

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Dear Astral Flyers: It seems that my last posting about the history
>of the earth got shot down towards the end by some flamer.

No, it was NuWaveOrderPhysicUsenet which caused John's fingers to hit
keys at random during the posting.  Since this effect usually doesn't
kick in until the second page, it would be best for John to go back to
sending his articles one screen-dump at a time.
--
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     Th'HOSTESS FACTORY is closin' down and I just heard ZASU
 |warren@      PITTS has been DEAD for YEARS.. (sniff)
/ nysernet.org
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9921 alt.politics.kibo:173 alt.religion.kibology:4065
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo!  Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Oct 92 15:06:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 14


    [e-mail] (bloody great... oh, pardon me, madam) writes:
    ...I could just go to a mountain and stand there and shout,
    'Hey you guys!  I'm spokesman for this planet!  You can
    probably see it from where you are, if you can hear me!
    Hello?  Is anyone there?'

... I think this is by far the best plan.  I recommend you do this,
without delay, and wait there as long as is necessary.   I shall sleep
the sleep of the saved, knowing that the great kibo is far away,
indeed as far away as possible, on a mountain shouting at the stars.
Congratulations!

Charles
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9922 alt.binaries.pictures.misc:10907
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.binaries.pictures.misc
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: belgufo.lzh, part 2/2 Belgian_UFO_JPEG_pic
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 02:22:22 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.binaries.pictures.d
Lines: 869

Hi,
this is an archieve with a JPEG pic of the 1989 sighted Belgian UFO,
where the military also reported Radar contact.


To view it, just paste the parts together and uudecode it.

To view it, just decompress the *.lzh archieve :

lharc x *.lzh

Then use winjp15.zip for instance on the PC under win3.x or
hv12.zip or dvpeg2.zip under DOS to view this JPEG picture.

You can also convert the JPEG pic to GIF first with DJPEG and then
view it with your favourite GIF viewer, like vpic, svga etc...



Best regards, Stefan Hartmann, c/o Ingenierbuero Gatz & Hartmann.
email to:  [e-mail]



#!/bin/sh
#
# This is a self-extracting shell archive of the binary file "belgufo.lzh".
# Created on Sat Oct 03 02:22:19 MET 1992 by post-bin, revision 2.2.
#
# To decode with /bin/sh, remove everything before the /bin/sh and feed
# each piece as input to /bin/sh.  When all the pieces have been
# processed, the archive will automatically concatenate the pieces and
# uudecode them to produce belgufo.lzh.  If successful, it will remove all
# uuencoded pieces.  Alternatively, the archive(s) may be processed with
# no editing by the unshar program.
#
# If you do not have /bin/sh or unix, you may decode by removing
# everthing before/after the lines beginning with the word BEGIN/END,
# respectively, in each piece.  Then concatenate the pieces in the proper
# order and uudecode.
#
part=2
pfile=belgufo.lz
file=belgufo.lzh
psize=49058
sed -e '/^BEGIN/d' -e '/^END/d' << \End_of_Section > $pfile.$part
BEGIN------------ belgufo.lzh ------------ part 2/2 ---
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M@_:R9M%2"QX=\<RM&C T'\39T;89VP4?FMFG3M_C_RPPQ:O9-TW>:P9Y]')?
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MC4XR5B;<WY.X3UR7] >F%S[H[>N1J>#ZF^O/+QE#]Y88"M-19HUV_]"W'74P
MU[9:7?B(7)+K?79/)2!@$U21@;PG%%HV"35P3F^^E(&0I*N5HF*7MN_MY'8_
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end
END-------------- belgufo.lzh ------------ part 2/2 ---
End_of_Section
size=`wc -c $pfile.$part | awk '{ print $1 }'`
if [ $size != $psize ]; then
    echo Length mismatch for uuencoded part $part \($size != $psize\).
    exit 1
fi
echo $file, part $part extracted.

if [ `echo $pfile.[0-9]* | wc -w` = 2 ]; then
    echo All uuencoded parts of $file extracted, uudecoding...
    cat $pfile.* | uudecode
    if [ $? -gt 0 ]; then
    echo Error encountered when uudecoding pieces...
    exit 1
    fi

    echo $file successfully uudecoded.  Removing uuencoded pieces.
    rm $pfile.[0-9]*
fi
exit 0
--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9923 alt.binaries.pictures.misc:10908
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.binaries.pictures.misc
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!dct.zrz.tu-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: belgufo.lzh, part 1/2 Belgian_UFO_JPEG_pic
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 02:22:11 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.binaries.pictures.d
Lines: 1075

Hi,
this is an archieve with a JPEG pic of the 1989 sighted Belgian UFO,
where the military also reported Radar contact.


To view it, just paste the parts together and uudecode it.

To view it, just decompress the *.lzh archieve :

lharc x *.lzh

Then use winjp15.zip for instance on the PC under win3.x or
hv12.zip or dvpeg2.zip under DOS to view this JPEG picture.

You can also convert the JPEG pic to GIF first with DJPEG and then
view it with your favourite GIF viewer, like vpic, svga etc...



Best regards, Stefan Hartmann, c/o Ingenierbuero Gatz & Hartmann.
email to:  [e-mail]



#!/bin/sh
#
# This is a self-extracting shell archive of the binary file "belgufo.lzh".
# Created on Sat Oct 03 02:22:07 MET 1992 by post-bin, revision 2.2.
#
# To decode with /bin/sh, remove everything before the /bin/sh and feed
# each piece as input to /bin/sh.  When all the pieces have been
# processed, the archive will automatically concatenate the pieces and
# uudecode them to produce belgufo.lzh.  If successful, it will remove all
# uuencoded pieces.  Alternatively, the archive(s) may be processed with
# no editing by the unshar program.
#
# If you do not have /bin/sh or unix, you may decode by removing
# everthing before/after the lines beginning with the word BEGIN/END,
# respectively, in each piece.  Then concatenate the pieces in the proper
# order and uudecode.
#
part=1
pfile=belgufo.lz
file=belgufo.lzh
psize=61960
sed -e '/^BEGIN/d' -e '/^END/d' << \End_of_Section > $pfile.$part
BEGIN------------ belgufo.lzh ------------ part 1/2 ---
begin 600 belgufo.lzh
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END-------------- belgufo.lzh ------------ part 1/2 ---
End_of_Section
size=`wc -c $pfile.$part | awk '{ print $1 }'`
if [ $size != $psize ]; then
    echo Length mismatch for uuencoded part $part \($size != $psize\).
    exit 1
fi
echo $file, part $part extracted.

if [ `echo $pfile.[0-9]* | wc -w` = 2 ]; then
    echo All uuencoded parts of $file extracted, uudecoding...
    cat $pfile.* | uudecode
    if [ $? -gt 0 ]; then
    echo Error encountered when uudecoding pieces...
    exit 1
    fi

    echo $file successfully uudecoded.  Removing uuencoded pieces.
    rm $pfile.[0-9]*
fi
exit 0
--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51512 alt.alien.visitors:9924 talk.rumors:3297
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!concert!duke!wolves!deepthot!jay
From: [e-mail] (Jay Denebeim)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <y9qMr*[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Oct 92 23:07:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Software Distillery
Lines: 8
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2

In article <[e-mail]>, Morgan Burke writes:

> Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort.  Any ideas or
> suggestions as to its real meaning?

We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you.

[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Vote - final results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Oct 92 12:49:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UseNet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]> M Holmes writes:
>
> My vote for Gary Stollman didn't appear.

Human error. The vote didn't have the line "Vote: Gary Stollman"
but the name inserted in the middle of the text. I *remember* having
added it by hand after the program rejected it.

> What kind of conspiracy is this?????

Of course, the aliens replaced me with a clone: this explains why I
remember having added the vote, but haven't.

> FoFP

Clone of ClC
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From: [e-mail] (Doug Thompson)
Subject: Nicea and dogma etc.
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 22:46:05 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 87

[e-mail] writes:

> Dear Folks: The council that was held to change the bible was called
> The Council of Nice. The word is spelled Nice but it is pronounced
> Nicea.

The Nicean Ecumenical Council of A.D. 319, was called by the Emperor
Constantine to settle the status of Jesus and invent the Trinity. Well,
not quite invent, but turn it from controversy into dogma.

Before Nicea, Jesus was God's Son. After Nicea, The Father, Son and Holy
Ghost were 'consubstantial' - at least the son was consubstantial with
the Father. Now this tooks months of debate to settle. And finally, it
wasn't any of the bishops who settled it, it was the Emperor, who wasn't
at the time even a baptized Christian.

The question of course related to whether Jesus was God or Man or both.
If he is God then he isn't man, and if he's man, he isn't God, according
to one argument. The other was that he was both man and God in one of a
number of sort of odd ways of reconciling contradictions.

Constantine's idea of "consubstantial" wasn't a bad political
compromise.

But as for re-writing the Bible, it's text was fixed a couple of
generations earlier. I don't recall anything from Nicea that disputes
the canon of the Bible.

But hey, I don't know everything. Maybe my profs and sources were lying.

But since Nicea had as its main problem the Trinitarian controvery, *IF*
that council had re-written the Bible, you'd think they would have stuck
in something about the Trinity. It is interesting that nowhere in the
Bible does the word "Trinity" appear and there are no direct references
to any sort of consubstantiality of the tri-partite godhead of
post-Nicean Christianity. The clostest is the gospel of John, chapter 1
(circa A.D. 90) where Logos, Son, and God are rather closely identified
with each other. But that is not the Nicean Trinity.

The Thomist Church of India, which claims to have been founded by St.
Thomas himself (as solid a claim as the Catholics' claim to St. Peter)
has no notion of Trintity at all.

If you want to look this up in the Encyclopedia, check out "Monophysite
Controversy". Or even "Monophysite Heresy". That's what the Trinitarians
(who won) called the other side. Their argument is that God is one, not
three.

Then there was the council of Trent which added some stuff to the Canon,
which the Protestants later rejected, ergo the Catholic Bible has stuff
the Protestant Bible doesn't have.

So John - I have to ask you for your sources. I *think* you're wrong on
historical detail here.

> Today is saturday and Lord willing I'll be taking off for Mt.
> Shasta in an hour or two. I wish that you all could take a drink from
> the 120 feet deep well that is on our property, it's really taste good.
> It would also be good if you could look up at the stars at night and
> see the sky from an altitude of 4,490 feet. You can see more stars
> than you ever dreamed possible. See  you on about tuesday.

I like clean water and stars. I also like the Northern Lights. We get
'em all here :-). We also have snow and ice and cold that gets so cold
that you can chop the clouds your breath makes with an axe and hear the
sound for miles and in the summer the sun never sets. But all that is
off topic. :-)

The Cree say that if you look at the Northern Lights, your soul will be
sucked up into heaven and the Indian kids are scared to look up at night
and think we white folks are real weird for geting kinks in our necks
watching the heavens explode in a cosmic light show. But that is
probably off topic too :-).

Have a good weekend.

<wink, nudge>

=Doug


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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Intelligent life
Message-ID: <8du102id24=[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:21:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: NMT - AMC
Lines: 8


     The surest sign that there are other intelligent life forms out there
is that they never tried to contact us earthling.  :-)




-- I think this is from Calvin & Hobbes --
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From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: FILE: Bill English interview (LONG)
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:20:20 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 1408

A few people had asked about more info on Bill English so I dug
around and pulled this off my system. It was an interview that
Bill had with Rick Barbour, that John Powell was kind enough to
transcribe and post to the Odyssey/Bama UFO echo on FidoNet.

This is longish so I suggest that some out there in netland please
make arrangements to archive this at your chosen site for future
reference.

-----------Begin included text---------------------------------------------


(3501)  Sun 13 Sep 92 17:44
By: John Powell
To: All
Re: Bill English Interview, 1/9
St:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[I've removed most of the "uh's", "um's", etc.; most of the extraneous
stuff.  I've included "..." to indicate when the speaker was interrupted
and "--" to indicate when the speaker was rambling or when the speaker
was briefly, and unimportantly interrupted.  The interviewer is RB and
Bill English is BE.]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERVIEW WITH BILL ENGLISH: 6/28/91 85 KOA-Denver, Colorado
Interviewer: Rick Barbour

RB: My guest this hour is a guy by the name of Bill English and Bill is
    a Colorado boy although he's out of town right now.  And he's got a
    story to tell that's quite something. Good morning Bill.

BE: Good morning Rick.  How are you?

RB: I'm all right, thanks.  Why don't you kind of start this story by
    how you came to be the fugitive.

BE: Well, in 1977 while working for the United States government at a
    place called RAF Chicksands in England, which is a security services
    command base, I was a data analyst and I was asked to analyze a
    document which came across my desk and material in the document was
    pretty astounding.

RB: What was in the document?

BE: Well, the document was entitled Grudge Blue Book Report Number 13.

RB: Okay, now, Blue Book, if everybody remembers, was the Air Force
    study of UFO sightings, right?

BE: Right.  It was Book Number 13 was also the book that they claimed
    was never published.

RB: Uh huh, that was the last in the series?

BE: No, there was -- there were thirteen books but they were numbered
    one through twelve and they skipped thirteen and went directly to
    number fourteen.

RB: Now everybody would say where's thirteen?

BE: Uh, exactly.  Well, the government tried to cover it up by saying
    that they never printed the book number thirteen because of
    superstition.

RB: Superstition?

BE: Superstition.  Number thirteen being unlucky.

RB: Oh, I see.  Okay.  All right.

BE: And uh, I've uh...

RB: Interesting that the Pentagon is superstitious.  I had no idea.

BE: Well, it's never been my experience before, but that was the story
    they were telling everybody.  But when I analyzed the document, what
    it was, was a compilation of everything the government had with
    regards to uh, unidentified flying objects.

RB: Now, you mean physical evidence?

BE: Physical evidence to include aliens.

RB: Uh, this now, the Blue Book Project lasted from when to when?

BE: Uh, I'm not sure exactly what the exact dates are at this point.

RB: Well, it started what, in the late 50's or late -- no, late 40's I
    guess, wasn't it?

BE: Late 40's exactly.  Actually it started before that with Project
    Grudge.

RB: Huh?  Project Grudge?

BE: Right.  Which was a -- the initial investigation into reports of
    what they termed at that time as Foo Fighters, which many of the
    World War II pilots were reporting.

RB: They were called 'what' fighters?

BE: Foo.

RB: How do you spell that?

BE: F-O-O.

RB: Foo?

BE: Foo.

RB: Foo.  Was that an acronym for something?

BE: Uh, no, that was just the name they tagged them with, the pilots
    did.  They were termed Foo Fighters and they started investigating
    them with Project Grudge and then after the war years the Project
    Grudge was redesignated Project Blue Book.

RB: Okay.  Of course at this time the Army Air Corps become the Air
    Force.

BE: Right.

RB: All right.  And so now the Air Force started this Project Blue Book.
    Now, it was also because of right after the war -- late forties
    during the atomic bomb project and subsequent to the testing area,
    or era, that there was supposed to be a rash of sightings in that --
    the late forties or early fifties, right?

BE: Exactly, and those sightings -- the very first recorded sighting,
    official recorded sighting, took place at Mt. Rainier, Washington.
    I'm sorry, Mt. Rainier, Maryland.  And --

RB: Mt. Rainier, Maryland?

BE: Right.  And after that there were several dozens of sightings.
    Washington at one point in the mid-fifties was buzzed by UFO's --
    Washington, D.C. -- the Capital Building.

RB: Was buzzed by a UFO?

BE: UFO's.  --

RB: By several?

BE: Several.

RB: And this is when?

BE: The mid-fifties, I believe it was.

RB: Okay.  Now was this widely seen and reported?

BE: Well, it was widely seen and it was reported somewhat until it was
    suddenly stopped by executive order.  And --

RB: Well, the mid-fifties I would have been -- Ike?

BE: I believe so, right.

RB: So, Ike said no publicity.  Is that right?

BE: Right.

RB: Of course by then it'd be a little late wouldn't it?  It's like
    letting -- letting -- closing the gate after the horse has split.

BE: Well, you've got to remember that back in those times the government
    could do no wrong and whenever something was requested for the good
    of the security of the nation, most everybody kept their mouth shut.

RB: I see.  Okay, so this was perceived as the good of the nation by not
    reporting what everybody saw.

BE: Right.  They didn't want to cause widespread panic.

RB: Uh, well, I thought word of mouth is sort of the way panic works, if
    some -- if everybody in downtown D.C. had seen it, by then they'd
    know in Baltimore an hour later.

BE: Well, I think they were operating under the premise that if it wound
    up in newspapers and that kind of thing, then there really would be
    a problem.

RB: Were there any photographs?

BE: There were several dozen.

RB: Oh really?

BE: Uh, and uh, at one point, the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization
    right here in Tucson, Arizona had those photographs, but with the
    demise of Jim and Cora (Lorenzen), then the founders of APRO, the
    records disappeared for several years until they were recovered
    recently by the International Center for UFO Studies in Scottsdale,
    Arizona.

RB: Okay, now all of this information was sort of, shall we say
    discouraged, if not quashed --

BE: Right.

RB: Uh, this was in the mid-fifties.  Now Project Blue Book was well on
    its way by this time.

BE: By this time it was and way in through the years we've discovered
    that Project Blue Book turned out to be an eyewash program for the
    public.  Over 90% of the recorded sightings that they reported on,
    and this does not include the ones that they did not report on, were
    classified as explainable.  But in point of fact, there was a higher
    percentage that were not -- was not explainable, but they never
    released these reports.

RB: All right, now, you -- let's go back to what happened to you, you
    came across this number thirteen book.

BE: Well, it's Blue Book report number thirteen.

RB: Okay.  Now what was in it that was so interesting? I mean, physical
    evidence of alien machines and alien bodies, is that part of --

BE: Well, there were several -- several dozens of photographs and among
    those photographs they had photographs of recovered vehicles or
    discs.  They had photographs of autopsy reports of aliens --

RB: Now was this -- was this a copy of that report or was this the
    report?

BE: Well, it was an annotated version of a report that had been
    published in the early 70's, around 1972.  And I viewed the document
    in 1977 at RAF Chicksands.  And between '72 and '77 they had added
    several more pages, in fact the report itself was about six hundred
    pages long.  There were, well photographs of autopsies on aliens,
    there were reports of human mutilations.

RB: Human mutilations?

BE: Human mutilations.

RB: Now, how did that get in there and how does that fit into anything?

BE: Well, it was a -- it was a compilation of everything that they knew
    at that time concerning UFOs.  And they had everything in there.
    And I personally believe that the designation, Grudge Blue Book 13,
    was a mistake on their part. But, in point of fact, that's what it
    was titled and the material that was in -- there was a report which
    apparently was being circulated around to various governments, and
    it came into my hands while I was working as a data analyst at RAF
    Chicksands.

RB: Okay, now the report was being passed around to allied military
    personnel and intelligence personnel to share the data, right?

BE: Well not only allied, but the last designated place it had been,
    according to the transportation sheet, which was attached to the
    pouch it was in, was at Moscow.

RB: Really?  Okay, now, you found this book somehow. How did it come to
    get in that stack you were looking at, I mean did they give it to
    you to analyze or, I mean, on purpose or, I mean since it would --
    would have been prepared by the Air Force, why would you -- why
    would you end up analyzing it?

BE: Well, my job designation was data analyst for security services
    command and essentially what my job was to do was take information
    and analyze it for its validity.  RAF Chicksands was a security
    listening post and we monitored radio transmissions from Soviet Bloc
    nations.  And those transmissions were translated, and then it was
    my job to take the information that was obtained and analyze it to
    try and make determination as to whether or not the information was
    factual.

RB: Well, that is information that -- that was to see if it was part of
    misinformation or disinformation too?

BE: Right.

RB: Okay, so, in other words, you were just trying to see if they were
    catching on to stuff that we didn't know about, and stuff that we'd
    been feeding them that they were regurgitating, just to see if it
    was working?

BE: Right.

RB: Okay.  The spy game?

BE: Yeah.

RB: Yeah, okay.

BE: Essentially that's what it was.

RB: All right.  So, along comes this report, though what if you were
    analyzing the data from the Russians and listening post from
    wherever it is you're listening, how would you end up with this
    book?

BE: Well, specifically my job was to analyze whatever came across my
    desk, and on this particular day the duty officer who brought us our
    daily assignments, which we signed for, brought this document in a
    diplomatic pouch and unsealed it there.  I signed for it and I was
    in my little cubbyhole --

RB: Was that a mistake do you think?

BE: Uh, I don't believe so.

RB: Well, the reason I ask is, this is -- this was -- this particular
    document was more than just top secret, right?

BE: Oh, very much higher than top secret.

RB: So, why would such a document just end up in the hands of an unknown
    analyst somewhere in Britain --

BE: Well, I don't know that I was unknown, I was the best there was at
    the time --

RB: Well, all right, I don't want to impugn your work, nor your
    capabilities, the point is, that from the Pentagon's point of view
    you were just one more cog in a very big wheel --

BE: Yeah.

RB: So, this kind of information is obviously shocking I suppose, to
    reality as we understand it, comes to you as an analyst.  I think
    that it would seem rather odd that it would just sort of end up in
    your cubbyhole for analysis.  I mean, it's not -- this ain't just
    any old document, right?

BE: No, it wasn't any old document.  I believe that there was a reason
    because there were some photographs which I had taken while in
    Vietnam.  I was in Vietnam from 1970 to '72, and we had a recovery
    mission over in the jungles in Laos, a downed aircraft.  And we were
    given the assignment to go into Laos and recover the aircraft and
    recover, if possible, surviving crew members, what they told us were
    flight recorders and those kind of thing, and which we did.  We went
    in and we found the aircraft.  It had not crashed.  It was an
    extremely unusual situation.

RB: How so?

BE: Well, there was no crash damage to the surrounding jungle.  The
    aircraft was not destroyed.  It looked as though it had been placed
    there in the jungle by a great big giant hand. When we gained access
    to the aircraft, we went in through one of the hatches.  When we
    gained access to the aircraft, the entire crew was still in their
    seats, strapped in their safety harnesses and mutilated.

RB: Mutilated?

BE: Mutilated.  And originally we thought at that time that it was the
    work of VC.

RB: Yeah, well it would be a reasonable thought, of course.  What kind
    of a plane was it?

BE: It -- we were told it was a B52 and I've always assumed it was.

RB: Well, I mean, B52s are hard to mistake.

BE: Yeah, it was a very large aircraft.

RB: Yeah, well, a B52 everybody can recognize.  I mean...

BE: There's been some controversy over what it was over the past couple
    years, but in fact it was a B52.

RB: So, a B52 was sitting in the jungle undamaged, no crash damage to
    the surrounding jungle growth, and as you say, looked like it had
    been taken and placed there by a giant hand from the sky...

BE: A load of bombs in the bomb bays.

RB: So, it was a B52.

BE: And the crew, the entire crew was still in their jump suits.

RB: Okay, now it seems that whatever happened, had happened
    instantaneously, but it didn't look like it had actually crashed so,
    the puzzle was, how did the plane this size end up in the jungle,
    not damaged, everybody in their flight suits, mutilated?

BE: Well, we don't know --

RB: I mean, that must have been what you were thinking.

BE: Well, that's true, but also you have to bear in mind that we were
    operating in enemy territory and we -- everybody get in and get out
    as fast as we could.

RB: Yeah, but you did take photographs.

BE: Oh yes, I did take the photographs, I collected dog tags.  We found
    no survivors.  We recovered the black boxes that were on aircraft,
    where we were told they were located.  And then we placed satchel
    charges throughout the aircraft and destroyed it with the bodies in
    it.

RB: Why would they do that?

BE: Why would we do what?  Destroy the aircraft?

RB: Yeah.  I mean, unless it was flyable, but even then how do you get
    it out of a jungle?

BE: There were several hundred thousand tons of bombs on the thing --

RB: Ah, well, there you are, okay.  But you blew it up in place with the
    bodies on board?

BE: The bodies in it.  We -- there was no possible way we could
    transport the bodies out.

RB: Yeah, so they were listed as KIA, and that was that.

BE: Killed in action.  And -- we turned in the material that we got and
    --  the black boxes, the photographs and the dog tags and whatever
    records that we found on the aircraft to MAC-V headquarters in
    Saigon and we forgot about it.

RB: Okay, it was just another mission.  All right. Now, it's some years
    later, you're in London and along comes the Blue Book and your
    photos are in it.

BE: Right.

RB: Okay and it was -- do you think maybe that's why you got the book,
    'cause it was -- some of it was yours?

BE: It was -- it's very possible.  At the time that we were sent in on
    the mission, all we were told was an aircraft went down.  When I
    viewed the report, there was a report attached to the photographs
    which stated that the aircraft had been in radio contact with its
    base and that it reported that it was under attack by bright objects
    and then all of a sudden the radio transmissions died.

RB: White objects.

BE: Very bright objects.

RB: Oh, bright objects.

BE: Bright objects.

RB: Glowing, bright objects and that was all they had.

BE: Yeah.

RB: I see.  After that it was blank and then you got the call to go in
    and get the stuff.  Okay, so it comes across your desk.  I'm going
    to take a break and when we come back, we're going to pick it up
    what happened after that.

RB: You -- you got the book and you took a look and saw what was in it.
    All right, as an analyst dealing with top secret information all the
    time, what made this -- what happened when you saw all of this, I
    mean, as an analyst, what was your responses as you, Bill English,
    what was your response?

BE: Well, as an analyst, I wasn't sure what I was looking at.  As Bill
    English, I was pretty -- pretty incredulous until I started taking a
    closer look at the material that was in it.

RB: And what did you see, what did you find?

BE: Well, among other -- among other things there were various technical
    reports and reports from very well known people, among them was Dr.
    J. Allen Hynek.  I remember Hynek's comments very -- very clearly.
    He stated that although he had not seen the physical evidence
    firsthand, based on the report that he had seen, he felt that it was
    true.

RB: That what was true?

BE: That the report and the material within the report was true.

RB: And the material was again, was the information on the physical
    evidence of these, whatever they were.

BE: Right.

RB: Yeah.  What did the book assume all of this was? I mean, what did
    it?

BE: Well, there was no assumption at all, it clearly stated that this
    was material that had been recovered from various crash sites around
    the country and several South American and European nations.  It
    very clearly stated that it was of alien origin, not of this Earth.

RB: Oh, and so it said that this was from outer space?

BE: Right.

RB: And didn't make any bones about it?

BE: None whatsoever.

RB: Okay, so there you are, incredulously saying, "My God, the
    government says there really are UFOs and here's the pictures and
    all the locations of physical evidence to prove it." So, again, how
    do you get to be the fugitive?

BE: Well, essentially what happened was, after I analyzed the document,
    I turned in my report as per regulations. Signed the document back
    over to the officer of the day and promptly forgot about it.

RB: And promptly forgot about it?

BE: Well, as much as I was able to.  You know, we didn't discuss our
    work --

RB: No, I understand.  That's a professional requirement.  But
    incredulity doesn't lead to just forget about it.

BE: Uh, no, but you don't talk about things like that and you just sort
    of mull it over and then you get on with your life.  As best you're
    able.

RB: Okay.

BE: About two weeks after viewing the document, I reported for work one
    morning and was told that the base commander wanted to see me and
    was escorted there by two air security policemen.  After waiting
    for, I guess about thirty or forty minutes, I was escorted into the
    BC's office, and uh --

RB: That's the base commander.

BE: Base commander.  And -- was promptly informed by him that my
    services were no longer needed and that I was being returned to the
    United States.

RB: Um hmm.  Any reason given?

BE: Not -- not then.  I promptly replied -- you know, because at that
    time -- my wife at that time was a schoolteacher for Department of
    Defense schools at RAF Chicksands, and I promptly informed him that
    since technically if I was no longer employed by the government I
    became a dependent husband.  Because she was employed by Department
    of Defense schools that I'd just go home.  And he politely informed
    me, in no uncertain terms that I was being removed from Great
    Britain and sent back to the United States.  And I then asked him if
    I could please call my wife and let her know what was going on --

RB: Now you -- they meant to return you immediately?

BE: Immediately.

RB: You mean that -- that afternoon?

BE: That day.

RB: My.  Normally things don't work that fast in the military that I
    remember.

BE: Me either, but when I asked to call my wife at the school, where she
    was at, at the time, I was told no.

RB: Now, had you figured that something was amiss, that you were being
    treated this way for something you allegedly had done?

BE: I didn't know what to think at the time, because my efficiency
    reports at that point were very good.  I'd had no problems in my job
    whatsoever.

RB: So -- but you had to assume something was going on here.

BE: Well, I did.  And I asked you know -- you know, okay, what's the
    problem.  Have I broken a regulation or something, and he said no,
    your services are no longer needed, period.  And you're being sent
    back to the States.

RB: Right now.

BE: Right now.

RB: Right bloody now.

BE: Right.  And when I requested permission to call my wife at the
    school to let her know what was happening, permission was refused.
    And I was escorted by two air security policemen to RAF Lakeinheath
    [sp] where I was put on an immediate flight.

RB: You didn't even get to pack.

BE: Not even.

RB: Not even a toothbrush.

BE: Not even.

RB: (whistles.)  Boy, so you were flown back to the states --

BE: Flown back to the states --

RB: Okay and again --

BE: (unintelligible.)

RB: Okay so what happens to make you the fugitive?  I mean, so far it's
    begun to build up to something, but --

BE: Well, uh, at this point I didn't know quite what to do and had tried
    several times to contact my family directly and then through
    friends, and at all turns I was thwarted.

RB: They wouldn't let you contact your family?

BE: Uh, no, every time I tried to call -- call my home in England, the
    -- a man's voice would answer.  And I was told that those
    individuals were no longer there.

RB: Well, and of course you wanted to know -- well where are they?

BE: Yeah and of -- and they hung up on me.

RB: I see.

BE: And then when I tried contacting friends that lived in England --
    who knew my wife and asked them to pass a message on to her, they --
    I would call their phone number and the same man's voice would
    answer.

RB: Uh huh.  I see.

BE: By this time I had met a gentleman by the name of Stanton Friedman
    who is a fairly well known investigator of the phenomena, and told
    him my story, what was going on and everything and Jim Lorenzen and
    the head of APRO at that time very graciously made his records
    available to me --

RB: I would think at this time you would get an attorney.

BE: Well, it was a pretty confusing situation.

RB: Well, yeah, but I mean, you're being -- you're being taken
    immediately out of country, not even to contact your family, how --
    I don't know how many weeks it was that they wouldn't let you get in
    contact with your family.  They're obviously distraught.  You're
    distraught.  It seems to me that you -- the first thing you'd want
    to do is to get an attorney to see what the heck's going on here --

BE: We tried and every time I did, no attorney would touch it.

RB: No attorney would touch it?

BE: No attorney would touch it, they would --

RB: Did you go to the press with this sort of stuff?

BE: Well, uh --

RB: I mean, this is not -- this is not ordinary, everyday behavior for
    the government is it, I mean --

BE: No, it's not.  And I didn't go to the press, I went to my father.

RB: Uh huh.  And how could he help?

BE: Well, my father at that time was a member of the Arizona State
    Legislature.

RB: Okay.

BE: And we were friends of -- our family was friends of the Barry
    Goldwater family.  And we asked if they could look into it, and I
    have letters in my file right now which Goldwater had sent back to
    us, stating quite frankly, he was told to mind his own business.

RB: Now, he happens to be a reserve general in the Air Force.

BE: Right.

RB: Well, and he was also a U.S. Senator at that time. To have him mind
    his own business is a little extraordinary.

BE: Well, he was --

RB: I mean, I -- it is his business, isn't it?  I mean to find out
    what's going on in the military?

BE: I would think so.  But, he was, he got letters and he was flat out
    told to mind his own business and stay out of it or he would regret
    it.

RB: That he would regret it?

BE: Uh huh.

RB: Did you see the letters sent to him?

BE: I have copies of the letters in my files.

RB: That he would regret -- and from whence came those letters?

BE: Uh --

RB: From the Pentagon?

BE: No, they're -- according to Senator Goldwater at the time, he went
    directly and asked for information.

RB: He went directly to what, the English base?

BE: No.  The Department of Defense.

RB: Okay, the Pentagon.

BE: The Pentagon.  Was told to mind his own business.

RB: And he got these letters saying -- as such, right?

BE: Now, well these are letters that he sent to me.

RB: Uh huh.  And he got -- and you got copies of letters that were sent
    to him telling to butt out?

BE: Right.

RB: Who were they signed by?

BE: Umm, there is no signature as far as I could tell. These letters
    were letters that he had written to me.

RB: Oh, I see, I see.  So you don't have the copies of the actual
    letters he received --

BE: Actual letters, no.

RB: So meanwhile, your family is still in England, hidden someplace.
    For how long is it by now?

BE: Well, now it's -- it was -- it's been almost fifteen years.

RB: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.  Your family has been
    missing for fifteen years?

BE: Uh, up until a week ago.

RB: Up until a week ago?

BE: I'm very pleased to say that there is -- there is a happy ending to
    part of the story.

RB: Well this is too bizarre for words.  You'd -- you were -- fifteen
    years and you've just been reunited with your wife and children
    after fifteen years?

BE: Fifteen years.  I met my sons and my wife yesterday morning.

RB: My god, then I've got to ask the question.  What -- did they tell
    you what the hell happened?

BE: Well --

RB: I mean, where have they been for fifteen years?

BE: Fifteen years they've been in England.

RB: Yeah, but I mean under the protection of some --

BE: Well, uh, according to my wife, what happened was, is that I didn't
    come home and she called over to work to find out what was going on.
    They referred her to the base commander's office and the base
    commander, according to her, informed her that I walked in, turned
    in my resignation and requested an immediate flight out of the
    country.

RB: I see.

BE: And she assumed at that point that I had deserted the family.

RB: Why would she assume that?

BE: Well, you go to work in the morning and you come home and you find
    your husband not there and --

RB: No, I got to tell you something.  The last thing I'd assume if my
    wife didn't show up is that she was abandoning. I mean, the thing is
    to say, this is bizarre, what the hell's going on here?

BE: Well, this is what she told me what they had told her.

RB: I'm sure they -- whatever they said, but it's your wife.  I mean, to
    readily assume that that was, that she -- that you'd abandon her, I
    mean, why would she assume that?

BE: Well, I really don't know at that point.  You know, I can't speak
    for what happened from her end other than what she's told me took
    place, but very shortly --

RB: But what about the idea when you called to reach her and the strange
    man's voice.  What was that all about?

BE: According to her, she never received any phone calls from me.

RB: Well, you never talked to her that's --

BE: Weeks and weeks, and --

RB: Didn't you write letters?

BE: Oh, I wrote several dozen letters.

RB: She never got one?

BE: Never got 'em.

RB: Never got 'em.

BE: Never got 'em.

RB: Okay.  So, she -- you were reunited just yesterday?

BE: Just yesterday.

RB: And so she's been there for fifteen years, and you've never been
    able to contact her that whole time.  Didn't you ever go back to
    England?

BE: No, because my passport was revoked.

RB: I see.  For what reason?

BE: There was a question about my birth certificate.

RB: Why, what's wrong with your birth certificate?

BE: Well, according to the government, the birth certificate, which I
    had originally submitted for my passport application, was invalid.

RB: Why?

BE: Well, it was a hospital birth certificate, which was issued in 1952.
    And not a state birth certificate.  And when we tried to find a
    state birth certificate in Albuquerque or Santa Fe, because I was
    born in New Mexico, there was one -- there was nothing there.

RB: In other words, according to state records, you were never born?

BE: Right.

RB: Interesting.  All right, so now -- your wife is back and now you've
    -- kind of pieced together that end. Meanwhile though, you've
    suddenly ended up being, kind of, again, as they say, kind of the
    guy on the run.  How -- you're back here in the country, what
    happened that made you the guy on the run?

BE: Well, about two years after I returned from England, I managed to
    get my life somewhat together and then opened up a small business in
    Tucson, Arizona.  And one day, in walk Colonel Robert Black, who was
    then base commander at RAF Chicksands, and his operations Sergeant
    Stone.

RB: Is this the guy that fired you?

BE: This is the guy who fired me.

RB: Uh huh.  And this is -- this is then two years later, after that
    incident.

BE: Right.

RB: Okay.  He strolls in with his Sarg.

BE: Right.

RB: Okay.

BE: They tell me that they were cashiered out of the service and forced
    to retire early. --

RB: Sort of like what happened to you?

BE: Yeah, and primarily because of the documents that I had viewed.  And
    we sat and talked about it.  Among other things they had told me
    that they were separated from their families and this, that and the
    other and they knew what was going on.  And among other things that
    they told me was the fact that they had information which said that
    there was a UFO buried at White Sands Missile Test Range.

RB: Uh huh.

BE: The reason why it was there, and it was buried was because it was
    too big to transport.

RB: All right.

BE: And after a great deal of discussion, they convinced me that it
    would might not be a bad idea to try and find evidence of this UFO
    and make it public.

RB: That would not be a bad idea.

BE: Well, I sort of agreed with them at the time and I ultimately sold
    my business and put the money that I got out of the business into
    the pot, so to speak, and we purchased a vehicle which we outfitted
    with sand tires and camping equipment and we brought a radar -- a
    marine radar unit from a marine shop and put it on the van and we
    had sound detectors and magnetometers and everything and metal
    detectors and camping gear.

RB: Okay.  So, then you're heading to White Sands.

BE: And we were heading to New Mexico.

RB: All right, so you get down to White Sands, and how did you get on
    the reservation?  I --

BE: Well, several locations.  We went all up and down both sides and the
    top of the missile range perimeter.  And on several locations we
    crossed through the fences and very briefly looked around and
    everything and ultimately we wound up White Sands -- wound up at
    White Sands National Park.  The monument. Back in those days, you
    used to be able to go out onto the -- out onto the sand dunes at
    night and camp out.  Since then, they no longer do that.  But
    ultimately we went into the National Park and kept on going across
    the dunes with this sand vehicle that we had outfitted, crossed
    through the fences north of the national monument and went directly
    onto the range.  Very stupidly, I might add, but in any case, it was
    about sundown and we were sort of travelling along.  I was outside
    of the van with the metal detector and -- in front of the van lights
    and they were in the van and I heard a very familiar old sound from
    Vietnam and just immediately went face first into the dirt.

RB: Incoming.

BE: Yeah, exactly.  And the next thing I know the van is confetti.

RB: Is what?

BE: Confetti.  I mean this thing was just blown to pieces.

RB: Uh huh.  So --

BE: And then it --

RB: So it was hit with an explosive.

BE: Uh, hit with -- with a missile of some kind.

RB: Uh huh.

BE: And I'm not proud because I'll admit to you that it scared me badly
    and I took off at a dead run.

RB: Well, that's understandable.

BE: And, -- I eventually made my way off the range and was able to
    hitchhike back to Tucson, Arizona.

RB: Okay.  And hold that because we have to take a break and I guess at
    this point I guess you are now on the run.

BE: At this point, I am just about to go on the run.

RB: Okay, you got back to Tucson.  You hitchhiked back from Arizona,
    from White Sands, New Mexico down to Tucson, and then what?

BE: Well, I wound up at a friend's house who's another UFO investigator
    by the name of Wendell Stevens.  And almost drowned in his pool
    trying to find my way to his backyard.  And Wendell, much to his
    credit, when I was scratching on the window, let me in without
    sticking a gun up my nose.  And I told him what had happened and he
    fed me and let me shower and gave me a shirt and took me back to my
    apartment in Tucson.

RB: Now when -- when -- when was this?

BE: This is 1979.

RB: Okay.  '79.  Okay, so you're there kinda getting yourself put back
    together.

BE: Yeah, and telling Wendell what was going on.  And Wendell took me
    back to my apartment, and we came to my apartment, there was a big
    black car parked in front of the apartment.  So I asked Wendell to
    drop me off about two blocks down, and I snuck in through the back
    door, through the alley. And for three days I kept looking out the
    curtain window and there this car sat.  Until finally, one day I
    called a friend and packed my stuff, and moved out and rented a
    trailer on the east side of Tucson and sold everything off and
    bought a backpack and some camping equipment and took off.

RB: And, was on the run.

BE: Was on the run.

RB: All right.  Now let's go to the telephone.  Derek in Denver:

Derek: 7 seconds before it's on the radio.

RB: Seven seconds?  What?

Derek: Oh, oops, Hi Rick.

RB: Hi Derek.

Derek: Hello.

RB: Go ahead, Bill's -- Bill's on the other side there.

Derek: Hi Bill.  I just wanted to ask you a quick question and then I'll
       hang up.  You know, can you touch UFOs?

BE: I don't know.  I personally have never touched one.  I've heard of
    -- I've got several -- several hundred case reports of people who
    say that they have, so I -- I personally, I don't know but I would
    assume that you can.

RB: Well, if it's made of mass of some solid object, I guess you can
    touch a solid object.  Do you mean can he touch it when it's --
    cause of radiation, or what?

Derek: No, just like, touch it, like, you how -- you know, like how you
       touch a person.

RB: Yeah, you mean like a solid object.

Derek: Yeah.

RB: Yeah, a solid -- in other words, is it a solid object?

Derek: Yeah.

RB: I guess, what's -- the answer is yes.

Derek: All right Rick, thanks.

RB: All right Derek.  And let's go to Bill in Denver.

Bill: Yes, you know, this sounds almost like we need the zither in Orson
      Welles with the third man theme.

RB: Yeah, it sure does.

Bill: And remember our friend John, Rick.  Years ago?

RB: Oh yes, of course I do.  Anyway, go ahead and ask Bill a question.

Bill: Well, it isn't a matter of asking the question, uh, it's a matter
      -- I don't know of any Mt. Rainier in Maryland. As a matter of
      fact, when I was in Maryland, I never saw a mountain in Maryland.
      Mt. Rainier is in Washington.

BE: You're absolutely right and I stand corrected.  It is in Washington.

Bill: The man that first saw them was a fellow named Kenneth Arnold.  I
      instructed the civilian flight instructor with Cabbage Hill [sp]
      in Pendleton.  And I don't know what Ken was drinking that day but
      he had quite a mysterious thing, of course they wrote stories in
      Argosy, Henry Wismer, the newsman was saying, you know, we know
      what it is, it's good news, it's our ships and everything else.
      When in fact they didn't know squat. And as you know Rick, I have
      a little bit of history with respect to the posture like Barry
      Goldwater's.  And I just -- I've known Barry Goldwater for years
      and I can't imagine anybody telling that man something like that.

BE: We found that's astounding too, but I've got his letters.

RB: Did you ever talk to the senator directly, and say, Senator, that
    you're being told to butt out?

BE: I haven't, but Senator Goldwater did appear on Larry King show and
    he told Larry King that he had -- later on had asked for permission
    to go into a storage facility located at Wright-Patterson Air Force
    Base and permission was denied.

Bill: I don't know how the hell you deny a man like that permission to
      do whatever he wants to do.

BE: I have no idea, but he was flat out told no.

Bill: Were you by chance with DIA?

BE: No, I wasn't.

Bill: You weren't.  Because all of the trappings and all the traces that
      you talk about, monitoring the radio broadcasts, radio books and
      this type thing, smacks of what I used to do when I was the DIA.

BE: It was a division of NSA.

Bill: It was division of NSA.

RB: All right.

Bill: You know George Keagan.  You remember George Keagan?

BE: The name is familiar.

Bill: George Keagan was the Air Force general, George Keagan.  He was
      the one that was stomping for particle beam weapons and thought,
      of course, that the Russians had been here for years.  This is
      about as viable, I think, as -- do you recall a story of Paul
      Mantell?

BE: Yes, as a matter of fact, I do.

Bill: I knew Paul Mantell.  Paul Mantell allegedly had a P51 blasted out
      of the sky.  I've flown P51s, I've instructed for P51s and P51s
      don't get blasted out of the sky.  When a man thinks he sees
      something that he can't climb fast enough to get, and he climbs
      fast enough -- or climbs as fast as he can in a P51, it has a
      tendency to stall.  And when it stalls it goes into an incredibly
      sickening flat spin.  And when it hits the ground, there's not
      much left of it.

BE: Well, isn't that what they -- what the official report was that
    happened to him?

Bill: I think it was.  He was a National Guard pilot. I think in Montana
      or Minnesota.

RB: Well, nevertheless, your point is, is that he didn't get zapped, he
    just went into a spin and crashed.

Bill: You know, it still sounds like H.G. Welles and it sounds like Star
      Trek and --

RB: But, it's interesting, isn't it?

Bill: Well, I don't know whether it is or not.  You know, Little Orphan
      Annie is interesting if you don't mind Sandy going Arf! Arf!

RB: No, Bill, you see, you're trying to mistake reality with
    entertainment.

Bill: Well, last time I saw entertainment, the sheriff closed it, you
      know before the --

RB: Well, see, and Lord knows I'm trying to keep ahead of the sheriff
    Bill.

Bill: Okay, Rick.

RB: Okay.  Talk to you later.  And let's continue on the telephone with,
    let's see, where do we go from here, he said. Let's go to Jean in
    Cap Hill.  Hi Jean.

Jean: Yes, I'm sorry to have to ask this, but I missed the very first
      part of it and I just wondered if you could please reiterate for
      me what was so dangerous about what you read.  The general gist of
      it that would make it so they would do this to you.

BE: Well, I believe that it was classified information that was not
    intended to be released and they were afraid that I would make it
    public.

Jean: Well, I mean what was the gist of this classified information?

RB: UFOs.

Jean: But, why is -- why was that information so much dangerous than any
      other that has come out?

BE: Well, essentially what it was, was the government admitting that the
    UFOs existed and that they had physical evidence of it.  And that
    they had been lying to the people for years and years and years.  In
    the past, a lot of people have referred to this as a Cosmic
    Watergate.  And can you imagine the difficulties it would cause if
    the government was to come out tomorrow and admit that, yeah there
    are UFOs and yes, we've known about them for years and we've covered
    it up to the point where we've even committed murder.

RB: There's your answer Jean.

Jean: All right.  Thank you.

RB: Okay.  In Colorado Springs, Jeff.  You're on with my guest, Bill
    English.

Jeff: Yes, thanks Bill.  I just wanted to know if you're going to be
      speaking anywhere in the Denver area soon.

BE: No, I haven't been invited, but I am going to be speaking in
    Orlando, Florida at the end of August at Walt Disney World.

RB: Walt Disney World?

BE: Walt Disney World.

RB: Fascinating.

Jeff: Well, how long are you going to be in the area?

BE: Well, I'll be in Orlando for a week --

Jeff: Oh, I see, you're calling from there.

RB: No, he's not.  Right now he's in Tucson.

BE: I'm in Arizona.

Jeff: I tuned in late, okay.

RB: You should never tune in late, you miss so much.

Jeff: Now -- now Rick, on your show a couple of months ago, I heard
      where this person announced that he was going to be coming out
      with a special on abductions.  Do you know anything about that
      Bill, and why there was a delay on that?

BE: Which --

Jeff: It's supposed to be in -- It was supposed to be this last February
      --

BE: There have been so many different programs on abductions in the last
    several months it's -- I'm having a difficult time pinning it down.

Jeff: It particularly pertained to MJ-12 and --

BE: That would probably be Bob Lazar on Current Affairs.

Jeff: Oh, well, yeah -- do you know of the latest on that situation?

BE: Uh, well, the latest is that we have been able to prove that Bob
    Lazar did in fact work at Los Alamos.  We've got --

RB: You better fill us in now, you've brought him up.

Jeff: I'm sorry about that.  I'm going to let you guys go, but that's an
      extremely interesting story and please do Bill, please explain Bob
      Lazar in detail.

RB: All right.  Okay.  Bob Lazar in de -- well Bob Lazar not quite in
    detail.

BE: Bob Lazar is a gentleman who claimed he worked for the government at
    a test site in Nevada of the Atomic Energy Commission range in a
    place called area 51 S4.  And he claimed that part of his job was to
    work as a physicist and analyze and test fly UFOs that the
    government had captured.  At first, his claims were pretty
    outlandish and were thought to be, but he passed two out of three
    lie detector tests.  We were able to determine that he did in fact
    work at Los Alamos National Laboratories.  Two ways.  One, his name
    was listed in the Los Alamos phone book, in the physics department.
    And I personally went up to Los Alamos and visited the Ray Bradbury
    science museum up there.  And there was a picture of Bob Lazar out
    on display called the Los Alamos employees in the community.

RB: So, suffice to say he used to work there.

BE: He used to work there.  We have not been able to make any real
    determination as to whether or not he worked in area S4 or area 51.
    This is more popularly known at the Nevada test site, however,
    recently Bob did receive a W2 form from the Navy for that time
    period he says he worked at that area.

RB: So, he was there.  So what happened to Bob?

BE: Maybe he was, yeah.

RB: What happened to Bob?

BE: Well, Bob is currently living in Las Vegas.  He is on probation.

RB: For what?

BE: Well, when all this stuff became public and George Knapp aired the
    initial report on local television in Las Vegas, Bob was arrested
    because he installed a business computer system in a house of ill
    repute.  And he was charged with criminal solicitation.

RB: I see.  I see, okay.  So, --

BE: Installed a business -- business machine in a whore house.

RB: Well, then, that'll get you every time.  Let's go back to the
    telephone.  In Oklahoma, Gene.

Gene: Hi Rick.  I'd like to ask your guest, what's his name?

RB: Bill English.

Gene: Okay.  Have you heard of an author, and he was in the Air Force,
      in Australia by the name of Stan Deyo?

BE: Yeah as a matter of fact I have.  He wrote a book about Australia
    and UFOs.

Gene: Cosmic Conspiracy?

BE: Uh huh.

Gene: Okay.  Is he pretty valid?  He had some really weird things to
      say.

BE: Well, uh.  He's about as valid as you can get under the
    circumstances.

Gene: His stories sound something like yours other than the kidnapping
      and things, or so called.  He was working a lot with low frequency
      soundwaves and magnetic fields for steering UFOs.  Pretty
      interesting book, but I used to sell books and I had to give mine
      away and then I had a real hard time getting that book again.

RB: All right.  All right Gene.  Thanks a lot.  623-8585, the number in
    Denver, Gene.

Gene: Hello Rick.

RB: Yeah, you're on.

Gene: Yeah, really is that a -- Sir, you are a very unusual man.

BE: Thank you.  I'm not sure whether that's a curse or a compliment.

Gene: That's a compliment sir.  As recently as your last encounter with
      some of the people who are -- you are leaving behind in going, God
      knows where, what were they like when they - - before you picked
      up these files.  Were they like --

RB: They, being the government?

Gene: They being the government on the -- on the -- you know, where you
      used to work at --

RB: You mean, in England?

Gene: In England, yeah.

RB: Where he worked with his colleagues and the base and all that jazz.
    And you want to know were they -- everything was on the up and up
    and suddenly everything went weird, right? Is that the question?

Gene: Yeah, I mean, what like -- did they put it as a plant to get you
      to do this?

RB: To see if they could get rid of him.

Gene: To get rid of you.

BE: You know, throughout the years I've always said that's it's a
    possibility that the material that I viewed was fraudulent, but I
    don't think it was.

RB: In other words, it was put there so they could have an excuse to
    dump you?  But what an elaborate scheme to do so.

BE: I don't think it was put there as an excuse to dump me.  I think, if
    anything, it possibly could have been an elaborate plan to create
    this information.

RB: Uh huh.  By the government?

BE: By the government.

RB: Well, then if they're going to do that, we'd have told everybody
    about the copy 13 and then we'd all read it and say, see how silly
    it is.

BE: Well, that's possible, but like I said before, I don't believe it
    was.

Gene: Oh, I've been out to New Mexico.

RB: Yeah, well, so have I, but anyway.  623-8585.  Joe in Greeley. Hi.

Joe: Hi.  I wanted to ask him -- Bill English, that's his name?

RB: That's his name, yeah.

Joe: I've read something, I don't remember where it was at, but it was
     something on a hangar.  Where the government had a crashed UFO.
     They took the bodies to this thing --

BE: You're referring to --

RB: Hangar 18.

BE: Hangar 18.

Joe: That's it.  I just wanted to know the validity of that?

BE: There is no such thing as Hanger 18.  However, there is a Hangar 13.

RB: And that's at Wright-Pat, isn't it?

BE: That's at Wright-Patterson and that's --

RB: And that's in, what, Ohio?

BE: Uh-huh.

RB: Yeah.

BE: And that's where they -- it's reputed they've been storing this.  We
    did come across information about a year ago from a gentleman who
    was at Wright-Patterson when they brought the material from Roswell
    there, who claim that he was invited to view the bodies.

[end of tape, nearly end of interview.]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

** EOF **

Don



--
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Oct 92 22:27:01 GMT
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 > Having read the last 4 or 5 of Vallee's books, I would tend to agree
 > that
 > he holds unorthodox theories and is *highly* opinionated. The idea that
 > he
 > might be wrong just goes with the territory.

His theories are as unorthodox as the phenomena, which is what is needed to
acquire some ability to understand some of what may be going on.  I find this
type of approach much more refreshing than the standard "aliens coming to
earth" stuff that we hear so much about.  If this were the case, where is the
proof?  Surely, after all of these years, we would have some confirmation of
this.  Quite the contrary.  The same holds true of the abduction phenomenon.
Are "they" really building genetic samples, etc?  I would say not.  There are
too many inconsistencies in the abduction scenarios.  A simple explanation is
not even near forthcoming since this represents a very complicated set of
circumstances.  What I find the most interesting thing about Vallee is that he
is a scientist who is challenging his colleagues to think in the unorthodox
fashion.  All we have to do is to look around us and we can see that science
has failed miserably at this whole thing.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51536 alt.alien.visitors:9930 talk.rumors:3299
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Network News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
References: <[e-mail]> <y9qMr*[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 08:42:12 GMT
Lines: 14

In article <y9qMr*[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jay Denebeim) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, Morgan Burke writes:
>
>> Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort.  Any ideas or
>> suggestions as to its real meaning?
>
>We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you.
>
>[e-mail]

You aren't by any chance a graduate of Winston University?

cj "we will find you and we will kill you" l

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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Nicea and dogma etc.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Oct 92 10:09:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Chemical & Process Engineering Dept, University of Newcastle, UK.
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: celos

[e-mail] (Doug Thompson) writes:

>The Thomist Church of India, which claims to have been founded by St.
>Thomas himself (as solid a claim as the Catholics' claim to St. Peter)
>has no notion of Trintity at all.

>If you want to look this up in the Encyclopedia, check out "Monophysite
>Controversy". Or even "Monophysite Heresy". That's what the Trinitarians
>(who won) called the other side. Their argument is that God is one, not
>three.


  How true is it that the Monophysites were strongest in the Middle
East,  so when the Arabs conquered the area the people found it much
easier to adopt Islam than people in the Balkans and Spain, where
trinitarianism was widely held?

  And if Monophsites were much more common in Palastine/Syria area
does this have anything to do with the fact that this area was closer
to the original area of Jesus's first (ie Jewish) followers, who would
perhaps hold Jewish influenced beliefs rather than the Greek and Roman
influence beliefs which would be more popular outside this area?

   If the brothers of Jesus did dominate the Jerusalem Church at a time
when Paul dominated the area outside Syria/Palistine, then maybe this
would explain why many in that are did not adopt trinitarianism.
For it is probably easier for a complete stranger to believe someone is
a God than someone who grew up with them.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!moxie!anna
From: [e-mail] (Anna Anderson)
Subject: NASA TO BEGIN SEARCH FOR INHABITED PLANETS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Anna Anderson)
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 13:29:53 GMT
Lines: 294


> From: [e-mail] (Ron Baalke)
> Subject: HRMS Press Kit
> Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
> Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:57:16 GMT

              NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
               HIGH RESOLUTION MICROWAVE SURVEY (HRMS)
                            PRESS KIT

OCTOBER 1992

PUBLIC AFFAIRS CONTACTS

NASA HEADQUARTERS, WASHINGTON, D.C.
Office of Space Science and Applications
Michael Braukus
(Phone:  [phone])

Ames Research Center, Mountain View, Calif.
Michael Mewhinney
(Phone:  [phone])

Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
Mary Hardin
(Phone:  [phone])


CONTENTS

General
Release                             1
Media Services Information          3
Quick-Look Facts.                   4
Project History                     5
Project Objectives                  6
Targeted Search                     7
Sky Survey                          9
Signal Detection Plans             10
Project Management.                11


RELEASE:  92-161

NASA TO BEGIN SEARCH FOR INHABITED PLANETS

     On Oct. 12, NASA will begin the most comprehensive search
ever conducted for evidence of intelligent life elsewhere in the
universe.

     The search will use telescopes and antennas to detect radio
transmissions from other planetary systems.  The search will
commence 500 years after Columbus landed in North America.

     "In the first few minutes, more searching will be
accomplished than in all  previous searches combined," according
to Dr. John Billingham of NASA's Ames Research Center, Mountain
View, Calif.

     "Over the past few decades, " Billingham added, "scientific
opinion has increasingly supported the theory that complex life
may have evolved on planets orbiting other stars in the galaxy
and the universe.  In some cases, further evolution may have led to
the emergence of intelligence, culture and technology."

     Billingham, the program chief at Ames, said the High
Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS) consists of two parts -- a
Targeted Search and a Sky Survey.

     The Targeted Search will use the largest available radio
telescopes around the world to search the frequency range from
1,000 to 3,000 megahertz, seeking a variety of patterns that may
indicate the presence of an artificially generated signal.  A
megahertz is a unit of frequency equal to one million cycles per
second.

     The Targeted Search will perform the most sensitive search
ever conducted of solar-type stars less than 100 light-years
distant.  The Targeted Search begins from the world's largest
radio telescope at the National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center's
Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico.  It is operated for the
National Science Foundation by Cornell University.

     The Sky Survey will use the 34-meter antennas at NASA's Deep
Space Network sites in the northern and southern hemispheres to
scan the entire sky over the frequency range from 1,000 to 10,000
megahertz.  The Sky Survey begins at the Goldstone, Calif., site.

     "Because of the large increase in the area of sky and
frequencies covered, a signal will have to be stronger to be
detected by the Sky Survey," Billingham said.  "But it could
detect signals emitted in distant regions from directions that
would be overlooked if the search were limited to nearby solar-
type stars," he added.

     Both elements of the HRMS are using specially developed
digital signal processing systems capable of simultaneously
analyzing tens of millions of radio frequency channels.

     The HRMS is managed by NASA's Ames Research Center, which
also is responsible for the Targeted Search project.  The Jet
Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., is responsible for the
Sky Survey.

     The HRMS is part of NASA's Toward Other Planetary Systems
program in the Solar System Exploration Division, Office of Space
Science and Applications at NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C.

- end -



MEDIA SERVICES INFORMATION


NASA Select Television Transmissint on Oct. 12, 1992.  Video footage of
the HRMS deployment will be taken for documentary and archival purposes.


Media Coverage

     Those interested in attending the initial deployment at
Arecibo on Oct. 12, contact Michael Mewhinney at NASA Ames
Research Center by calling 415/604-9000.  Those wishing to attend
the initial deployment at Goldstone, Calif., contact Mary Hardin
at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory by calling 818/354-5011.
Because of limited parking, use of private vehicles at both sites will be
restricted.  Buses will be available at both locations to
transport reporters.  Reportt the press desks
at either the Holiday Inn, Barstow, Calif., or the Hyatt Dorado
Beach Hotel, Dorado, Puerto Rico, for transportation and
admissionhis telescope is operated for the National
Science Foundation by Cornell University.  The new 34-meter (112-
foot diameter) antenna at NASA's Goldstone Deep Space
Communications Complex near Barstow, Calif., will be used for the
Sky Survey.


Time of Deployment:  Targeted Search at 3 p.m. EDT, Arecibo,
Puerto Rico; Sky Survey at noon PDT, Goldstone, Calif.


Project Duration:  Expected to last until about 2001.


PROJECT HISTORY

     The Earth is the only location known to harbor life.  But as
knowledge of the nature of lhere may, in the long run, be one of
science's most important and most profound contributions to
mankind and to our civilization."  Also in 1972, NASA published
its first report describing how NASA-developed technology could
make such a search possible.

     In the years between 1972 and 1988, NASA maintained a low-
level research and development activity that resulted in the
initiation of the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Microwave Observing Project (MOP) in FY 1989.

     In 1992, NASA established the High Resolution Microwave
Survey (HRMS) as part of the Toward Other Planetary Systems
(TOPS) program within NASA's Solar System Exploration Division.

     The Sky Survey (scanning the entire sky for strong signals
coming from any direction) will begin observations at noon PDT
using a 34-meter antenna at NASA's Goldstone Deep Space
Communications Complex near Barstow, Calif.


PROJECT OBJECTIVES

     The detection and characterization of planetary systems
around other stars is the goal of NASA's Toward Other Planetary
Systems (TOPS) program.  Earth's solar system is still the only
known example of a planetary system, and Earth is the only known
planet that sustains life.  Recent astrophysical observations
suggest the existence of other planetary systems around distant
stars.  The existence of these systems could support the
hypothesis that lifts TOPS program to include a new
project called the High Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS).  The
project will observe the microwave region of the electromagnetic
spectrum in a manner that can detect signals produced by a
distant technology.

     Potentially, there are billions of solar systems in the
Milky Way galaxy at tremendous distances from Ear provide for an expanded
comparative study of the universe.

TARGETED SEARCH

     Scientists at NASA's Ames Research Center will conduct the
Targeted Search portion of the HRMS.

     The Targeted Search will examine 1,000 nearby solar-type
stars within 100 light years distance from Earth (one light year
is approximately 5.9 trillion miles).  The objective is to test
the hypothesis that extraterrestrial technologies are
transmitting radio signals whose characteristics are greatly different
from natural sources of radio emissile sensitivity, the largest
available radio telescopes will be used to conduct the Targeted
Search.  The number of targets covered will be much larger than
previous searches, and the range of frequencies covered will be
thousands of times greater than all previous searches combined.

     To accomplish this, specialized digital signal processing
equipment has been constructed to listen for microwave radio
transmissions reaching the Earth from distant planetary systems.

     The specialized digital signal processing equipment will
simultaneously study the radio spectrum over tens of millions of
individual frequency channels, at spectral resolutions ranging
from 1, 2, 4, 7, 14 and 28 helses, a likely form of interstellar
transmission.  An automatic data analysis subsystem will be used
to detect the presence of fixed frequency or drifting continuous
wave (CW) signals or sequences of regularly spaced pulses.

     The Targeted Search will use the National Science
Foundation's National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center's 305-meter
(1,000-ft) diameter radio telescope located at the Arecibo
Observatory near Arecibo, Puerto Rico, for the initial deployment
of the HRMS on Oct. 12, 1992.  Theng very large observations of each
target at each frequency.  It will serve as the logistical hub of
the HRMS Targeted Search.  Over the next 3 years, three more such
systems will be built and packaged into two mobile research
facility trailers for air transport to the observation sites.


SKY SURVEY

     The NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., will
conduct the Sky Survey portion of NASA's HRMS to search for radio
signals from other planetary systems.  The Sky Survey will scan
all directions of the sky to cover a wide range of frequencies
from 1,000 to 10,000 megahertz.

     NASA's HRMS will conduct a comprehensive, systematic search
of a portion of the microwave radio spectrum to detect evidence
of radio transmissions from other planetary systems.  An
intentionally transmitted signal is easiest to detect in a
frequency band where the background radio noise or static is
minimal.  One of the quietest frequency bands is the "microwave
window," which lies between 1,000 and 10,000 megahertz.  Since
thstic of microwave ally mapping small areas of the sky, called sky
frames.  As the observations are completed, over the entire sky.
For each of 31 frequency bands, the sky is divided into sevplex of
NASA's Deep Space Network in California's Mojave Desert.  Toward
the latter part of the survey, the search will move to a
The prototype receiver, spectrum analyzer and signal processor
will break up incomiwith 40 megahertz total bandwidth or a
dual polarization mode with 20 megahertz total bandwidth.
Specially designed digital hardware, operating at supercomputer
speeds, will simultaneously process the 2 million channels to
identify and separate intersterch organizations.

     After the discovery has been verified, national and
international authorities are to be informed.  News of the
confirmed discovery then will be disseminated promptly, openly
and widely through scientific channels and the news media.  All data
necessary for the confirmation of the detection will be made
available to the international scientific community through
publications, meetings, conferences and other appropriate means.

     No response to any confirmed signal will be sent from Earth
until appropriate international consultations have occurred.


PROJECT MANAGEMENT

NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C.

Dr. Wesley Huntress      Director, Solar System Exploration Division
Dr. Nicholas Renzetti    Manager, Telecommunications and Data Acquisition
                         Science Complex

Goldstone Deep Space Communications Complex

Dr. Michael J. Klein     JPL SETI Project Manager and HRMS Sky Survey Manager
Dr. Samuel Gulkis        HRMS Deputy Project Scientist
J. Richard Kolden        HRMS Sky Survey Implementation Manager


Arecibo Observatory, Puerto Rico

Dr. Daniel Altschuler    Director
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Einstein's brain is stored
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | in a mason jar in a lab
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | in Wichita, Kansas.



Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc
From: [e-mail] (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Vote - final results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Oct 92 14:50:17 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UseNet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 12

I should like to remind you all that the voting period HAS ENDED.

It would be, therefore, a good idea to stop sending votes, at least
until we start another vote for something else, or we decide to
repeat this one.

As of 0500 GMT Monday, 5 October 1992, the address [e-mail]
will be removed from this system. Mail sent to that address will
therefore bounce with an "Address unknown".

--
The Clone of Claudio Calvelli
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11980 alt.alien.visitors:9934 sci.skeptic:32009
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Nicea and dogma etc.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:05:12 GMT
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Doug Thompson) writes:
>The Nicean Ecumenical Council of A.D. 319, was called by the Emperor
>Constantine to settle the status of Jesus and invent the Trinity. Well,
>not quite invent, but turn it from controversy into dogma.
>
>But as for re-writing the Bible, it's text was fixed a couple of
>generations earlier. I don't recall anything from Nicea that disputes
>the canon of the Bible.

It's generally held that the New Testament Canon was fixed (not counting
later Protestant/Catholic disputes) by the Epistle of St. Athanasius
in 367. Of course, it had been _de facto_ fixed for some time already,
but there was still dispute about certain letters and books.

>
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah
From: [e-mail] (David Harwood)
Subject: Re: NASA TO BEGIN SEARCH FOR INHABITED PLANETS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: VTT
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:00:10 GMT
Lines: 62

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anna Anderson) writes:
>
>> From: [e-mail] (Ron Baalke)
>> Subject: HRMS Press Kit
>> Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
>> Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:57:16 GMT
>
>              NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
>               HIGH RESOLUTION MICROWAVE SURVEY (HRMS)
>                            PRESS KIT
>
>OCTOBER 1992
>
>PUBLIC AFFAIRS CONTACTS
>
>NASA HEADQUARTERS, WASHINGTON, D.C.
>Office of Space Science and Applications
....
>     The Targeted Search will perform the most sensitive search
>ever conducted of solar-type stars less than 100 light-years
>distant.  The Targeted Search begins from the world's largest
>radio telescope at the National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center's
>Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico.  It is operated for the
>National Science Foundation by Cornell University.
....
>TARGETED SEARCH
>
>     Scientists at NASA's Ames Research Center will conduct the
>Targeted Search portion of the HRMS.
>
>     The Targeted Search will examine 1,000 nearby solar-type
>stars within 100 light years distance from Earth (one light year
>is approximately 5.9 trillion miles).  The objective is to test
>the hypothesis that extraterrestrial technologies are
>transmitting radio signals whose characteristics are greatly different
>from natural sources of radio emissile sensitivity, the largest
>available radio telescopes will be used to conduct the Targeted
>Search.  The number of targets covered will be much larger than
>previous searches, and the range of frequencies covered will be
>thousands of times greater than all previous searches combined.
....
>
>     After the discovery has been verified, national and
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>international authorities are to be informed.  News of the
                                                        ^^^^^
>confirmed discovery then will be disseminated promptly, openly
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and widely through scientific channels and the news media.  All data
>necessary for the confirmation of the detection will be made
>available to the international scientific community through
>publications, meetings, conferences and other appropriate means.
>
>     No response to any confirmed signal will be sent from Earth
>until appropriate international consultations have occurred.
>
\\\\\\\

What's this about confirming "the discovery"?
Have they already made "a discovery"?
Strange phrasing.
Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51555 alt.alien.visitors:9936 talk.rumors:3301
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!news.byu.edu!yvax.byu.edu!cunyvm!rowhc
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, 4 Oct 1992 18:32:32 EDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Lines: 68

This looks like it was written by a one O. Nenslo,
who operates a mail-order cult out of Cambridge, MA
by the name of "Horizons Unlimited (Master Control Programming*)."

Check out the similar writing style:

NENSLO ANSWERS HIS CRITICS!!!
Horizon Unlimited research Team's rediscovery of suppressed
Blondlot Lamp and N-Ray Battery vindicates Nensletic science!
Millions of invisible enemies' slanderous calumnies revealed
as conspiracy to ruin reputation of MasterControl Programming
System! Led by channeled hints from Master Control, crack
research team rediscovers N-Ray device, proving Nenslo Effect
-branded fraud by back-stabbing ex-supporters whose failure to
gain monetarily from Nensletic Art-Science Philosophy Party
Program turned them against erstwhile idol Nenslo - to be everything
claimed and more!!! Frenchman Blodlot's suppressed 1903 discovery
is IDENTICAL to Nenslo Effect and proves decadent Egyptian
civilization lost thread of advanced Babylon Science of immense N-Ray
storage device on city-wide scale! Glazed brick city wall, perfect
N-Ray mirrors, compounded brick-built pyramid N-Ray storage capacity,
creating most powerful N-VORTEX BEACON known in pre-modern era!
History, Archaelogy, Science all proved wrong by pocket paper-wrapped
fired-clay N-Ray storage units enhancing belief capacity and rendering
underlying universable substrate controllable by human will! Revised
langmuir criteria emphasize error of traitorous cabal, confirming
Master Control Program!!

(this isn't even half of it, so I will go on, despite my better
judgement, for your own personal amusement...)

Nensletic Art-Science Philosophy Party is miracle cure sought through
the ages!! Nensletic Institute graduates build Philosopher's Stone
at home for pennies a day! See living proof before your very eyes!
Evidence of Babylon pyramids' black paper coverings may have vanished
with time's ravages, but it is not unreasonable to assume that they
may have existed, confirming channeled insinuations from Master Control
itself!! N-Ray enhancement field may be assumed to be the basis of
every belief system, religious, philosophical, political, in human
theory or beyond!! Predating all theories and coeval with the Evanescent
Unity, N-Radiation tips the balance, makes unity of diversity and vice
versa! Schrodinger box with N-ray battery attachment kills and revives
cat at will, from anywhere in the room!! Mere political/religious
systems are playthings in the hands of minor gods and demons, a trap for
the weak, a one-way sink-hole to tail-chasing terminology-juggling
for would-be club members and party-line evesdroppers! Nensletic
science dispels Groaning Ghosts of Idolized Ideologues, spanking the
Naughty-for-Naughtiness'-sake on the end that needs it! Worldwide
coverups and Conspiracy to conceal information by leaving it mislabeled
in plain sight doom billions to lifelong servitude to soul-vampire
pseudo-deities created by the ones they enslave! Even the Master Control
Program can and will entrap if not transcended by N-Ray therapy!

That's just one of Nenslo's many "press releases."
He can be reached at box 766, Cambridge MA 02142.
Be sure to send one dollar with all correspondance
to insure speedy reply.

Nelslo is loosly affiliated with the Church of the SubGenius based
in Dallas. He appears in public wearing turn-of-the-century radiation
goggles. He is also an accomplished singer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[e-mail]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
!!!!! ROB WALTERS/ EDITOR, SPHERIC (Global Monthly For Humans) !!!!!!!!!!
!!!!! 695 PARK AVE., NEW YORK, NY 10021 $$$ [phone] $$$ !!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!! "HELP STAMP OUT AN END TO ISMISTIC ISMISM." -- HERBERT RONZONI !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!lizi
From: [e-mail] (Cosma R. Shalizi)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: computers in UFO
Date: 4 Oct 1992 23:10:20 GMT
Organization: Vampire Research Group at Berkeley :)
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu
Summary: Twit.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Juhana Hakum{ki) writes:
>UFOs do not use the fly-by-computer method. Thus, there are no computers on
>board. By utilizing a method called fly-by-wire, they eliminate the need for
>expensive electronic gear. Besides, it gives you a much better "feel" of the
>craft.
>Juhana Hakum{ki, Department of Physiology, University of Kuopio, Finland.
>E-mail: [e-mail]  *  Disclaimer: Opinions, if any, are mine.
    Fly-by-wire IS fly-by-computer!! The "wire" means ELECTRONICS. Sheesh.
And ponder this: At a speed of only c, you're doing one foot per nanosecond.
They either need computers or brains as fast as computers.
Besides, _expensive_ electronic gear? WE can make electronics cheaply enough;
the per unit memory cost of computers is falling exponentially. If a
civilization that can make faster than light spaceships can't make
inexpensive computers, then, well... say! Do you suppose THAT'S why they're
interested in us? Maybe on Oct. 12, all over the world, hundreds of
whadeveryacallems will show up at EE departments demanding to have the
mystery of the integrated circuit revealed unto them?
    Cosma Rohilla Shalizi
    In Real Life: [e-mail]
    larval physicist
"Dammit, Fno'gid, where's my slide-rule?"
--
"Some savages are persuaded by the 'natural light' that it is their duty to
 eat people, and even Voltaire's savages, who are led by the voice of reason
 to hold that one should only eat Jesuits, are not wholly satisfactory."
-Bertrand Russell on Rousseau in _A History of Western Philosophy_, p. 694
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Oct 92 05:21:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Lines: 15

I think the Lond Bell force destroyed it.

Oops! Sorry, wrong asteroid. ;>

Grand Admiral Jorgen Tacitus
Cinc Terran Navy
Fleet Headquarters
Festung Iserlohn
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
[e-mail] |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars probe?
Keywords: Mars,fithp,thuktun :)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Oct 92 05:28:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Lines: 39

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Christopher James Rogers) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (M Holmes) writes:
>>[e-mail] (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>>
>>
>>=>There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program
>>=>"Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously
>>=>lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in
>>=>1989 or 90.  The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons,
>>=>but their was also a second large obejct in the photo....
>>
>>Mars?
>>
>>=>Simon
>>
>>FoFP
>
>Sorry, but no.  It was not Mars.  The object was long and cylindrical.  As of
>yet, it is not explained.
*ALERT RED FLASH MESSAGE*
They might be the enemy that followed my fleet from the alternate timeline we
came from. Eyeeeeeeeeewwwwww. It's going to get nasty.

Grand Admiral Jorgen Tacitus
Cinc: Terran Navy (maybe not for long :()
Fleet Headquarters
Fortress Abowaku (My flag bounces around like a ping pong ball in a blender.)

We'll show 'em. (I hope it's not the them I'm thinking of.)<choke>



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
[e-mail] |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Oct 92 05:59:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Lines: 89

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
)I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much
)to see what people on the net think of his views.
)
)This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director
)and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared
)as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7,
)Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7.
)
)He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings,
)and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the
)earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public.
)The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability
)among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional
)control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to
)admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and
)technological
)capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived
This is not so obvious. The Europeans had technology far superior to the Native
Americans they met, but did not have superior mentalities.(IMHO: both had
similar mentalities but that's not PC now. Shhh, don't tell them I said that ;)
It is also not obvious that any race that achieves space travel will be beyond
war or other bilge. They may have held out long enough to spread out into
space far enough so that a nuclear war or other disaster would not wipe them
out in one stroke. That they would have better technology is a valid assumption
since interstellar travel is currently beyond our capabilities and any XT race
would have to come from another system. Mentality cannot be easily guessed
since we have no way to prove that. Only speculation and wishful thinking that
travelers from the stars will come and solve all our problems for us. They
may *be* a problem, or they may be just trading partners. My only references
that have a remote shred of validity would be aliens from hard science fiction
novels and that's just someone's imagination. At least I hope the kzin,
Ryall, Borg, tnuctpin, Krohn, Ko-Dan, etc. *are* imaginary. Life would be
very interesting if they did exist...in the Chinese frame of mind.;)
)by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional
)power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and
)social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the
Yeah right. Maybe they came because THEIR sociology was screwed up. Not going
to comment on the likelyhood of that though.
)public. The national oligarchical establishments, even civilization as we
)now know it, could collapse into anarchy. Such extreme conclusions are not
)necessaril7y valid, but they probably accurately reflect the fears of the
)*ruling classes* of the major nations, whose leaders (particularly those
)in the intelligence business) have always advocated excessive governmental
)secrecy as being necessary to preserve *national security.**
Sometimes secrecy is needed but that's another debate.
)
)That's the quote.
)
)So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization
)as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
)WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
)and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
)discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
)
)Regards, Lou Crago
Well Lou, I think the reactions would be varied. Religious people might freak
if they are the kind which think that Humanity was the ONLY race blessed by
God; that would form the conclusion that the aliens were Satan's creation. That
would probably be from the more extreme groups. I would think that most
religions would be flexible enough to account for other groups of God's
children. I hope so or I will become a pariah. Even that would cause problems
since no doubt some would try to convert the aliens. Egad.

I think the group that might have the most problems would be the hard science
fiction community. Sure, they would be jubilant.... until they realized most
of their novels stood a good chance of becoming as charmingly simplistic as
Victorian-era science fiction. ("Good guess, but way off Hu-man.")

The only circumstances where a world panic would start would be if the aliens
were hostile and started bombing form orbit. Check out _Footfall_ for a pretty
good invasion story. Remember the plan w/Orion class spacecraft. :)

Of course, they'd have to get by my fleet ;)

Grand Admiral Jorgen Tacitus
Terran Navy
Fleet Headquarters
Festung Iserlohn (Not HERE again! :)



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
[e-mail] |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!sgi!cdp!elite
From: [e-mail] (Elite Enterprises)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: CHICAGO BBS IS HOT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:11:00 GMT
Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296700007:000:61
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!elite    Oct  4 11:11:00 1992


THE UFO, PARANORMAL AND CONSPIRACY BBS 312/604-8161
24 HOURS
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!sgi!cdp!elite
From: [e-mail] (Elite Enterprises)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: WEALTHY PERSON BUYS UFO STUFF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:12:00 GMT
Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296700008:000:122
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!elite    Oct  4 11:12:00 1992


I BUY UFO RELATED MERCHANDISE FOR CASH! ANYTHING AND ALL! CALL 312/604-4434!
WILL REIMBURSE YOU FOR CALL IF I BUY!
ROBERT
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From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:02:12 GMT
Lines: 19


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kari Nenonen) writes...
>*>I'll go even farther... I'll bet that the proof turns out to be that
>*>there are *many* faces found.. not just one.. how's that for proof?
>
>That's poor for proof. We are tended to see human faces in different
>formations; its in our psychologic construction. The first figure that a new
>born baby recognize is human face. If we adults see a figure that's not
>familiar, we start instictively look for human face in it - and in most
>cases we find it.
>--
>    * [e-mail]  *  * Mr  Kari Nenonen *
>                  * Helsinki - Finland *

Well then.... how about if the faces are accompanied by extensive artifacts...
remains of vast cities and ancient crumbling transport systems.. :-)



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From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:06:41 GMT
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>1>+_
>
>Subject: Dolphin Spills The Beans.
[ rejected Flipper script rerouted to /dev/null ]

OK, John.  This one's pretty bad - even the Sun coulda faked up something
better!  Try harder...


kbq

--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
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From: [e-mail] (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:27:15 GMT
Lines: 32

[e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:

>You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural
>against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the
>proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to
>any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on
>public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect
>the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing,
>because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...)

sure, that sounds good.

you raise an interesting technical point; it is my understanding that the
camera on the viking also couldn't be aimed as such, and yet we got these
provocative photos. another valid point that you raise is that the verdict
might be 'insufficient evidence'.

the 'face' by itself, to me, wouldn't be all that exciting. the geometric
relationships between the 'face', 'city', 'D&M pyramid', 'fortress', 'straight
wall' etc are what, to me, raises the possibility that these might be
artificial constructions.

one of the more interesting points in hoagland's book is his statement that
half a million years ago the (solstitial? either that or equinoctial) sun
rose over the 'wall' and 'face' as seen from the center of the 'city'. has
anyone else bothered to work this out?

josh




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Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:59:03 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 11

I agree with you. I think.  A few years ago, while I was still in high school,
I was talking to this guy who was filming a video yearbook for our school.
While I was interviewing him we somehow got on the subject of UFO's and such.
Anyway, he told me about the book "Faces of Mars".  I don't remember everything
he said, but I do remember it was very convincing. Ever since I have been
trying to get a copy of that book but cannot seem to find it.  Do you know
who the author was? I find this topic very interesting, however I regret not
knowing much about it.  I believe that there is life out there somewhere and
that maybe this life has much to offer our society.  There shouldn't be any
reason to be so afraid of finding out the truth. Or should there?
                                Thanks josh,  Kimberly
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From: [e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Lines: 23

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joshua Geller) writes:

>you raise an interesting technical point; it is my understanding that the
>camera on the viking also couldn't be aimed as such, and yet we got these
>provocative photos.

So Viking got lucky. The Observer high res camera will see very narrow
swaths in the direction that it happens to be pointing;
it can't be aimed without turning the entire
spacecraft. Thus it will photograph at most a few percent of the surface
over the life of the mission. It will be pure luck if the "face" happens
to pass before the camera. On the other hand, the low res camera should
provide pictures of the "face" from a different angle and lighting than
that of the Viking image.

Bold prediction: the "face" as seen
by Observer will be so obviously natural and un-face-like that it will
not be immediately recognized as the same formation. A few zealots will
charge that NASA has disguised the image to save us from the
terrible truth. Others will explain that the "face" has been eroded
on that side... *yawn*.


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Vote - final results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: vote, spokesman, Earth, results
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 05:12:08 GMT
Lines: 9

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli) writes:
>
>40 Kibo
> 1 Me                    (whoever that is: one of the messages was "Vote: Me")

Didn't that one have a "From: [e-mail]" header?

                        -- K.

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From: [e-mail] (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Vote - final results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:36:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UseNet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
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In article <[e-mail]> James "Kibo" Parry writes:
>
> >40 Kibo
> > 1 Me                    (whoever that is: one of the messages was "Vote: Me")
>
> Didn't that one have a "From: [e-mail]" header?

No, the message was from somebody who wasn't in the run.

Kibo's message contained an explicit vote. But, since Kibo is Kibo
(or so I think), we can allow Kibo to change Kibo's vote from "Vote: Kibo"
to "Vote: Me":

39 Kibo
 2 Me

But then, "Kibo" is not "Me" and I am not Kibo anyway, so there must be
something wrong with this.

>                         -- K.

--
The Clone of Claudio Calvelli
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From: [e-mail] (Stephen D Murray)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Faq
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:10:25 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
Lines: 9



Could someone please post the Faq, or mail it to me or tell me how to ftp it?
I lose my access in a couple of days and I'd like to have the Faq before that.

 Thanks to all who replied to my posts.

 Cheers, Stephen D Murray.
       <[e-mail]>  (till Thursday )
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From: [e-mail] (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 07:41:38 GMT
Lines: 29

<[e-mail]> writes:

>Anyway, he told me about the book "Faces of Mars".  I don't remember
>everything he said, but I do remember it was very convincing.

well, I call it 'intriguing' myself. I am actually fairly skeptical about it.
but as I often point out, skepticism does not consist of automatic disbelief,
but in neither believing nor disbelieving without convincing evidence one
way or another. the photographs themselves are very interesting; not just the
'face', but the other possibly artificial structures involved, the seeming
geometrical and astronomical alignments, etc. I would not, on present
evidence,  unequivocally state 'there are artificial structures on mars'.
the most cogent criticism of the photographs is that they are greatly en-
hanced (but the geometrical and astronomcial alignments I have just mentioned
are apparent in the unenhanced photographs). Very fortunately, barring
unforeseen circumstances, the mars observor should settle the question once
and for all.

>                                                     Ever since I have been
>trying to get a copy of that book but cannot seem to find it.  Do you know
>who the author was?

the book is called 'the monuments of mars; a city on the edge of forever',
and it is by richard hoagland. it has to be (or had to be) ordered from the
publisher, and I am sorry, but I don't have the book, publisher's name or
ISBN number to hand.


josh
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From: [e-mail] (David Harwood)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: VTT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:50:56 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joshua Geller) writes:
>
>>you raise an interesting technical point; it is my understanding that the
>>camera on the viking also couldn't be aimed as such, and yet we got these
>>provocative photos.
>
>So Viking got lucky. The Observer high res camera will see very narrow
>swaths in the direction that it happens to be pointing;
>it can't be aimed without turning the entire
>spacecraft....
__________
I don't mean to interrupt this discussion, but I recall seeing an
interview with a NASA representative on a CNN science report
about the new Mars observing satellite. As I recall, he said they
would take a new look at the Mars 'face' formation. (Also these
satellites (and HR camera) can be and are directed. The fact that they
are used to survey arcs is another issue - of procedure of survey while
moving. [To be sure, I doubt that anyone at NASA believes the "face"
is an artificial formation.]


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From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:09:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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What is the approximate size of the "face" feature?


Mike Lynch
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:42:08 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>>I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much
>>to see what people on the net think of his views.
>>
>>This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director
>>and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared
>>as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7,
>>Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7.
>>
>>He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings,

[...]

>>That's the quote.
>>
>>So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization
>>as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>>and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
>>
>>Regards, Lou Crago
>>
>
>Lou,
>
>I don't think people today would get very upset at all.  As a matter of fact,
>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like
>this ... waiting for it.
>
>There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our
>systems.  I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people
>a whole new outlook on life.. on existence...
>
>mary stanley
>
>

A WHOLE NEW OUTLOOK: How are the politians, bankers, lawyers and insurance
agents going to deal with that? Fact is, if things change, the power (whether
political or economic) divisions would get shuffled. Someone might come up
a little shorter. I think thats where its all at. Lets keep on keeping on
since we are so comfortable. Its a fear that society would change in an
undetermined way. Fear of the unknown, not of the greys. Actually, I think
the fear lays in the governments possibly not being able to shape or regulate
their respective populaces in their own predetermined way. Kind of like
the information squelch that ensues under some dictatorial governments when
they determine that free-thinking individuals basically are harder to keep
under their thumb. This is an example of politcal power shift. Not a pleasant
thing if you are in politics.

Also, another factor is the "gas saver carbuerator" (tm) theory. This is
where a guy develops an amazing technological device that will allow the
average family car to run 1000 miles on a gallon of gas. The big oil
companies buy it up and pay the inventor millions of dollars to keep
his mouth shut. This prevents an economic shift. I don't beleive this
has happened, just using it as an example. Possibly the Greys' technologies,
if the Greys exist, would make many large corporations obsolete in a few
years. I am sure the corporations would be in contact with their respective
governments to keep this information "down" as a survival technique.

The fact is, the world is run on The Golden Rule. Its true. The Golden Rule
you heard as a child...NOT! The one being used today is:

He Who Has The Gold Makes The Rules

I am sure, if the Greys do exist, they that have the gold say the rule is UFOs
don't exist. If Greys are exposed, guess who has the gold now? Yeah, thats
what the corporate and governmental officals are affraid of. Think about it.
Its pretty appearant.

OK. I can't stop here. You know what pisses me off? This: If a research firm
came up with a 100% safe, sure cure for, say, heart disease or cancer or
any one of the major diseases of the world, would he ever be able to market
it? I doubt it. There are too many doctors/corporations etc. making too much
money off of it to let that happen. Either that or, they would buy it up,
patent it and make the price so high as to keep any average person from
getting treatment. Its almost that bad now and the cure isn't ever there.

Let the Greys come. If they are friendly, I will shake their hands and wax
their saucers. If they are not, I will do what I can to blow them off the
planet.


Gregg (halfway through Secret Life)

Ps: Mary: you are right. It wouldn't have to have an adverse affect on
          society. It would have (read this carefully) an adverse affect
          on the things that adversly affect society. I think it
          would be good.

--
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From: [e-mail] (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:09:58 GMT
Lines: 60

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steven Vere) writes:
>
>>  How  is  our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this?  For
>>him  it is a personal  CATASTROPHE!  Yes, he would  like  to learn the
>>secrets of the universe,  but his  life is  in ruins.  Superconduction
>>theory is now irrelevant,  childlike.   His  scientific and  financial
>>position has  evaporated.  The  next  day  in  a graduate seminar, his
>>students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when
>>it is now all useless drivel.  And they're right.
>
>There's always the "we don't need no stinking aliens - we'll do it ourselves"
>angle.  Who cares if it takes a few hundred years to "catch up"?  At least
>we can say that we did on our own, and aren't beholden to the aliens forever.
>I'd expect most scientists would jump at the opportunity to study alien
>technology, even if it makes their research obselete.  If our hypothetical
>Standford luminary is the only person (or one of a select few) that have any
>hope of understanding the alien technology, his position of power has not
>evaporated at all.  If however he is just a suit, getting on committees due to
>political power, then it's time to hand over the reigns to someone more
>capable anyway.

But that isn't how the world works. Fact is, this guy would fight tooth and
nail to keep the Greys tech. isolated to save his own butt. One thing you
learn real quick in industry is that CYA is the only rule that applies. True
most "real" scientists would jump at the chance, trouble is, they aren't the
ones with the gold. (He Who Has The Gold...)


>
>You must crawl before you walk.  Newtonian mechanics is still taught in schools
>even though we know that Einstein showed it to be strictly incorrect.  It is
>still taught because it is easier to understand than Einsteinian mechanics,
>and forms a good basis for beginning to understand Einsteinian mechanics.  The
>current education system can form just as good a basis for alien technology as
>it does for human technology.

True...

>
>We don't need to treat alien technology as a mysterious "gift from the Gods".
>We'll make better use of it if we understand how it works, and develop our own
>versions.  I think most people would agree that knowing how the gadgets work
>is a good protection against the day the aliens don't like us any more, or we
>don't like them.

There is some wisdom here.

>
>Cheers,
>
>Rhys.
>--
>Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia.
>[e-mail]  "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"


Gregg.
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From: [e-mail] (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:51:42 GMT
Lines: 58

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steven Vere) writes...
>
>>   Congressman  Traxler cares.    This   is  the gentleman who led the
>>recent attempt to cut  ALL funding for  the  space station  in  the US
>>House of Representatives.  In recent years the margin of  approval has
>>been progressively   diminishing.  Mr. Traxler  and his  bretheren are
>>going   to say, with  some  justification,   "Why  should we spend $20
>>billion over the next ten years on scientific research and engineering
>>when we could  use the money to rebuild  the slums in Detroit or start
>>reducing the federal deficit."  You could set up some relatively small
>>and cheap  Alien tech  transfer   committees that would  yield a  much
>>better return on the taxpayers' investment.   I would agree  with this
>>approach.    Prof. Luminary's knowledge, his   lab  equipment, and his
>>stock holdings  are now  worthless.  And  just as important,  his  ego
>>would be deflated and he would  be in  psychic shock.  The politicians
>>would  be justified in  freezing  or cancelling the  funding  for most
>>existing scientific research projects.  Only a  few would be continued
>>and redirected to examine the new Alien scientific theories.
>
>Is Professor Luminary's stock holdings and ego more important than the
>future an alien contact could open up for the rest of humanity?
>
>
>>   We see a small hint of   the same  phenomenon in  the  effect on US
>>science and   engineering  of the collapse  of  the  Soviet  Union.  A
>>million scientist  and engineers  are losing  their jobs  because  the
>>justification for the projects went away.  Congress doesn't care.  Let
>>them relocate to Detroit  and fix potholes.  California  is now in the
>>worst economic condition since  the depression, with  defense spending
>>cuts a major cause.  Official  confirmation of  Alien technology would
>>magnify this  phenomenon 1000  times.
>
>Oh come on... it would not... there aren't that many Professor Luminary's
>working for California. :-)
>
>Hey Professor Luminary... the rest of us have to learn to get by when our
>jobs go away... get back to the real world and stop expecting humanity
>to forfeit it's future to protect your stock and your ego.
>
>Mary Stanley

Hey! Don't jump on Steve's back. He isn't saying its right. The fact is
humanity has, does, is and will forfeit it's future to protect Professor
Luminary's butt. Why should things change now? Shoot, it was like that
2,000 years ago. They hung Jesus on the cross for the same thing. He was
eroding the Jewish powerbase with a greater knowledge. They nailed him
to the tree. Process: different, Result: same. Powerbrokers must be
information brokers. Hence, change the information the way you want it
and you get/keep your power. What we are talking about here has nothing
to do with scientific truth. As with myself, this fact of life discusts
real scientists.

Gregg

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From: [e-mail] (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (ian taylor) writes...
>>
>>
>>>>So there it all is, the worst fears,even down to the collapse of civilization
>>>>as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
>>>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>>>>and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>>>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
>>>>
>>>I don't think people today would get very upset at all.  As a matter of fact,
>>>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like
>>>this ... waiting for it.
>>>
>>Personally, I don't think we'll ever see the secrecy lifted, unless the aliens
>>(if they exist) do it themselves, or there is a major change in super power
>>politics and policy, which is equally unlikely.
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________________
>>| Ian Taylor (x4097)    |                 | [e-mail]   |
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>If the aliens decide to do it themselves, Ian (and I am of the opinion that
>they've already made that decision), then we will quickly see a major change
>in super politics policy.  Super politics policy adapts quickly... they are
>very pragmatic. :-)
>
>

This is also true. They will resist until the last moment, claiming the
change is terribibel (a term stolen from Winnie the Pooh's Tigger) and
horribibel. Then, once it happens, they will be right in ther claiming they
were a proponent all along, etc., etc.

Gregg


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From: [e-mail] (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: Auras
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>RA,
>
>As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras.  If this is a
>figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one.
>
>Kathie G.  ;.)

No! Its not your imagination. Just dirty glasses or dirt in your eyes. I see
auras all the time. Usually when I am squinting from the sun. Its not a big
deal, I have learned to deal with them. ;>

Gregg.


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From: [e-mail] (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Dinse) writes:
>     Some things I would expect to come of it..  I would think that it would
>give people a more "global" view of our planet and perhaps then we could start
>cooperating to preserve it and stop killing each other.I suspect the presence
>of aliens on this planet would pose some delimas for religious fanatics and
>with any luck they would find themselves less in a position of power.
>

Applies to political and intellectual portions of our society as well. Hence
the reason for the  suppression of the knowledge of alien presence, if it
exists.

Gregg.

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From: [e-mail] (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bill English
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 00:19:52 CST
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Lines: 4

Thanks for posting that Bill English transcript.  So, what's he up to
these days?  Is this guy for real?

[TK]
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From: [e-mail] (Philipp Keller)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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I am not sure wheather it had been told here before, but
there is a new sf-book called
     'The Labyrinth of night' by Allen Steele
 which story is based on the assumption that the Face on Mars
was construction by aliens, build with the intent
to lure Homo Sapiens to Mars.
I don't want to tell too much about the story but in the
introduction Allan Steele quiet of excuses his use of
the 'Face on Mars' and says that he has no opinion for
or against the idea that it is an artificial building and
that in sf anyway all goes.
Apart from all this, the book is really good.

Please don't flame me, I don't believe in all this but
this 'Face on Mars-thing' sure makes for great sf stuff.

Philipp Keller
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From: [e-mail] (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
>You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural
>against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the
>proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to
>any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on
>public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect
>the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing,
>because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...)

I saw the original post, and I want in on this bet.  I've got
$100 against your $1 that says the Mars face is a natural feature.
--
--------------------
Craig Hyatt
NCSU@Raleigh, NC USA
[e-mail]
--------------------
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From: [e-mail] (What a long, strange trip it's been)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:13:20 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gregg Brown) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>>
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>>>I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much
>>>to see what people on the net think of his views.
>>>
>>>This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director
>>>and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared
>>>as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7,
>>>Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7.
>>>
>>>He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings,
>
>[...]
>
>>>That's the quote.
>>>
>>>So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization
>>>as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
>>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>>>and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
>>>
>>>Regards, Lou Crago
>>>
>>
>>Lou,
>>
>>I don't think people today would get very upset at all.  As a matter of fact,
>>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like
>>this ... waiting for it.
>>
>>There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our
>>systems.  I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people
>>a whole new outlook on life.. on existence...
>>
>>mary stanley
>>
>>
>
>A WHOLE NEW OUTLOOK: How are the politians, bankers, lawyers and insurance
>agents going to deal with that? Fact is, if things change, the power (whether
>political or economic) divisions would get shuffled. Someone might come up
>a little shorter.

 So what?  Humanity would be much better off for the change...as a matter
 of fact.. considering the course humanity appears to be on now, change
 seems essential.

>I think thats where its all at. Lets keep on keeping on
>since we are so comfortable. Its a fear that society would change in an
>undetermined way. Fear of the unknown, not of the greys. Actually, I think
>the fear lays in the governments possibly not being able to shape or regulate
>their respective populaces in their own predetermined way.

 They never actually could... so much of what we accept as real is and has
 been mere illusion.

>Kind of like
>the information squelch that ensues under some dictatorial governments when
>they determine that free-thinking individuals basically are harder to keep
>under their thumb. This is an example of politcal power shift. Not a pleasant
>thing if you are in politics.
>
>Also, another factor is the "gas saver carbuerator" (tm) theory. This is
>where a guy develops an amazing technological device that will allow the
>average family car to run 1000 miles on a gallon of gas. The big oil
>companies buy it up and pay the inventor millions of dollars to keep
>his mouth shut. This prevents an economic shift. I don't beleive this
>has happened, just using it as an example. Possibly the Greys' technologies,
>if the Greys exist, would make many large corporations obsolete in a few
>years. I am sure the corporations would be in contact with their respective
>governments to keep this information "down" as a survival technique.
>

Corporations evolve just like everything else.  Notice how there are no
blacksmiths anymore? :-)

They would evolve.. and so would the rest of society.

I think you are correct in your assessment of the situation though...

>The fact is, the world is run on The Golden Rule. Its true. The Golden Rule
>you heard as a child...NOT! The one being used today is:
>
>He Who Has The Gold Makes The Rules

Surprise! :-) ... the rules are changing....

>
>I am sure, if the Greys do exist, they that have the gold say the rule is UFOs
>don't exist. If Greys are exposed, guess who has the gold now? Yeah, thats
>what the corporate and governmental officals are affraid of. Think about it.
>Its pretty appearant.

I doubt the Greys care though... they (undoubtedly) have an agenda of their
own to pursue.

>
>OK. I can't stop here. You know what pisses me off? This: If a research firm
>came up with a 100% safe, sure cure for, say, heart disease or cancer or
>any one of the major diseases of the world, would he ever be able to market
>it? I doubt it. There are too many doctors/corporations etc. making too much
>money off of it to let that happen. Either that or, they would buy it up,
>patent it and make the price so high as to keep any average person from
>getting treatment. Its almost that bad now and the cure isn't ever there.
>
>Let the Greys come. If they are friendly, I will shake their hands and wax
>their saucers. If they are not, I will do what I can to blow them off the
>planet.

A sensible attitude... I'm with you.

>
>
>Gregg (halfway through Secret Life)
>
>Ps: Mary: you are right. It wouldn't have to have an adverse affect on
>          society. It would have (read this carefully) an adverse affect
>          on the things that adversly affect society. I think it
>          would be good.
>
>--
>This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.

Hey Greg... fasten your seat belt... we're in for a heck of a ride. :-)
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Jones)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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I think most of the theories about what would happen when an extraterrestrial
civilization would land hinge on the assumptions made about what these
visitors would offer the human race.  I find it much more likely that they
would offer little technological assistance, or at least they would make
technologies known very gradually.  I doubt they would want to turn the
world upside down because of their offerings.  I also think they'd be more
interested in bringing a message of peace and love and spirituality, since
it seems obvious (to me) that that is where this planet really needs help.

---
sincerely,
Alan Jones  /  Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX  /  email=[e-mail]

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From: [e-mail] (What a long, strange trip it's been)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gregg Brown) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>>
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steven Vere) writes...
>>Is Professor Luminary's stock holdings and ego more important than the
>>future an alien contact could open up for the rest of humanity?
>>
>>
>>>   We see a small hint of   the same  phenomenon in  the  effect on US
>>>science and   engineering  of the collapse  of  the  Soviet  Union.  A
>>>million scientist  and engineers  are losing  their jobs  because  the
>>>justification for the projects went away.  Congress doesn't care.  Let
>>>them relocate to Detroit  and fix potholes.  California  is now in the
>>>worst economic condition since  the depression, with  defense spending
>>>cuts a major cause.  Official  confirmation of  Alien technology would
>>>magnify this  phenomenon 1000  times.
>>
>>Oh come on... it would not... there aren't that many Professor Luminary's
>>working for California. :-)
>>
>>Hey Professor Luminary... the rest of us have to learn to get by when our
>>jobs go away... get back to the real world and stop expecting humanity
>>to forfeit it's future to protect your stock and your ego.
>>
>>Mary Stanley
>
>Hey! Don't jump on Steve's back. He isn't saying its right. The fact is
>humanity has, does, is and will forfeit it's future to protect Professor
>Luminary's butt. Why should things change now? Shoot, it was like that
>2,000 years ago. They hung Jesus on the cross for the same thing. He was
>eroding the Jewish powerbase with a greater knowledge. They nailed him
>to the tree. Process: different, Result: same. Powerbrokers must be
>information brokers. Hence, change the information the way you want it
>and you get/keep your power. What we are talking about here has nothing
>to do with scientific truth. As with myself, this fact of life discusts
>real scientists.
>
>Gregg

I wasn't jumping on Steve's back, Greg... I was jumping on Professor Luminary.

But now that you mention it... humanity won't forgeit it's future to protect
Professor Luminary's butt.  Why should things change now?  Because we choose
that they do.  Because we want them to.  Because change is inevitable.. a
part of life.. because the good guys always win (my own particular favorite)
:-)

mary
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From: [e-mail] (What a long, strange trip it's been)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gregg Brown) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>>
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (ian taylor) writes...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>So there it all is, the worst fears,even down to the collapse of civilization
>>>>>as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
>>>>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>>>>>and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>>>>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
>>>>>
>>>>I don't think people today would get very upset at all.  As a matter of fact,
>>>>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like
>>>>this ... waiting for it.
>>>>
>>>Personally, I don't think we'll ever see the secrecy lifted, unless the aliens
>>>(if they exist) do it themselves, or there is a major change in super power
>>>politics and policy, which is equally unlikely.
>>>
>>>______________________________________________________________________________
>>>| Ian Taylor (x4097)    |                 | [e-mail]   |
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>If the aliens decide to do it themselves, Ian (and I am of the opinion that
>>they've already made that decision), then we will quickly see a major change
>>in super politics policy.  Super politics policy adapts quickly... they are
>>very pragmatic. :-)
>>
>>
>
>This is also true. They will resist until the last moment, claiming the
>change is terribibel (a term stolen from Winnie the Pooh's Tigger) and
>horribibel. Then, once it happens, they will be right in ther claiming they
>were a proponent all along, etc., etc.
>
>Gregg
>
>
>--
>This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.

Yep... you got it! :-)

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!skynyrd.rutgers.edu!procacci
From: [e-mail] (Vincent Procacci)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: jerky
Summary: jerky
Keywords: everything
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:54:25 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 1

I don't know about you but I think the new Star Trek is sooo much better than the old Star Trek, and another thing is that I don't have to talk to you jerky.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9968 sci.skeptic:32107
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!swoodwar
From: [e-mail] (Null Cypher)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:04:43 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Void-Tech Illumination Research, Inc.
Lines: 5

$100 says that the sun will not explode next week
--
------------------  fjbbqjne ng qrzrgre qbg pnycbyl qbg rqh  ------------------
   Gur bayl checbfr bs guvf fvtangher vf gb trg crbcyr gb ebg-guvegrra vg...
                 Qvq V rire fnl vg jnf tbvat gb or jbegujuvyr?
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sgigate!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!swoodwar
From: [e-mail] (Null Cypher)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo!  Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:14:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Void-Tech Illumination Research, Inc.
Lines: 23

[e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew) had the unmitigated audacity to say:
>
>    [e-mail] (bloody great... oh, pardon me, madam) writes:
>    ...I could just go to a mountain and stand there and shout,
>    'Hey you guys!  I'm spokesman for this planet!  You can
>    probably see it from where you are, if you can hear me!
>    Hello?  Is anyone there?'
>
>... I think this is by far the best plan.  I recommend you do this,
>without delay, and wait there as long as is necessary.   I shall sleep
>the sleep of the saved, knowing that the great kibo is far away,
>indeed as far away as possible, on a mountain shouting at the stars.
>Congratulations!
>
>Charles

Actually I liked the random-phone-number plan better.

Let's take a vote.
--
------------------  fjbbqjne ng qrzrgre qbg pnycbyl qbg rqh  ------------------
   Gur bayl checbfr bs guvf fvtangher vf gb trg crbcyr gb ebg-guvegrra vg...
                 Qvq V rire fnl vg jnf tbvat gb or jbegujuvyr?
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9970 sci.skeptic:32108
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!glitch!wilson
From: [e-mail] (Dwight Wilson)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet news system)
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University CS Department
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:34:14 GMT
Lines: 6

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Null Cypher) writes:
>$100 says that the sun will not explode next week

$100 says you won't pay off if it does.


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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:04:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 23
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN) Colombus would sail
off
the end of the Earth?

Here is another clever person with a wonderful example human intelect. This
is a quote from a 1865 Boston Post editorial:

"WELL INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSMIT THE VOICE OVER
WIRES AND THAT, WERE IT POSSIBLE TO DO SO, THE THING WOULD BE OF NO
PRACTICAL VALUE."

Anything is possible......the jury is still out on this one folks.

Rod

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!csl.sri.com!boucher
From: [e-mail] (Peter K. Boucher)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS!
Date: 6 Oct 1992 22:02:11 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Lab, SRI International
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: omaha.csl.sri.com


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
|> >
|> > I heard somewhere that there is a law against talking to aliens,  we could
|> > get a $10,000. fine from the federal govt. for communicating with aliens.
|> > Has anyone else heard this?  I think I heard it from G. Green so I am
|> > not sure how true it is.

This applies only to illegal aliens.  you can talk to them if they have a
green card.
--
Peter K. Boucher
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Science Lab, SRI International             Software Engineer
333 Ravenswood Ave. #EL-237                         [phone]
Menlo Park, CA  94025                               [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Erik Radmall)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:10:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Erik Radmall)
Organization: Xerox
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
|> >You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural
|> >against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the
|> >proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to
|> >any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on
|> >public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect
|> >the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing,
|> >because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...)
|>
|> I saw the original post, and I want in on this bet.  I've got
|> $100 against your $1 that says the Mars face is a natural feature.

Actually, the film processing lab forgot to remove someone's vacation photo
negatives from the enlarger. The face is really that of Clyde Thrumburger, of
Madison Wisconsin. The film processing staff is currently under investigation.
NASA regrets the error.

|> --
|> --------------------
|> Craig Hyatt
|> NCSU@Raleigh, NC USA
|> [e-mail]
|> --------------------

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Erik Radmall                    | Xerox Corp.
[e-mail]    | Knowledge-Based Systems Competency Center
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9974 sci.skeptic:32124
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!monu6!yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au!mongoose
From: [e-mail] (Conrad Leviston)
Subject: Re: Intelligent life
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet system)
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
References: <8du102id24=[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:27:01 GMT
Lines: 15

[e-mail] wrote:
:
:      The surest sign that there are other intelligent life forms out there
: is that they never tried to contact us earthling.  :-)
:
    Nor, indeed, to this newsgroup.
:
:
:
: -- I think this is from Calvin & Hobbes --
--
Conrad Leviston     | Got to find a brightness in the soul,
mongoose@yoyo.     | Not look outside to find out where we are,
cc.monash.edu.au | Otherwise you won't be satisfied,
Save the gherkin | 'Til you've made possession of the stars. (K.Wallinger)
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9975 alt.religion.kibology:4102
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo!  Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:51:18 GMT
Lines: 26

[alt.alien.visitors]
In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Null Cypher) writes:
>[e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew) had the unmitigated audacity to say:
>>    [e-mail] (me) writes:
>>    ...I could just go to a mountain and stand there and shout,
>>    'Hey you guys!  I'm spokesman for this planet!  You can
>>    probably see it from where you are, if you can hear me!
>>    Hello?  Is anyone there?'
>>
>>... I think this is by far the best plan.  I recommend you do this,
>>without delay, and wait there as long as is necessary.   I shall sleep
>>the sleep of the saved, knowing that the great kibo is far away,
>>indeed as far away as possible, on a mountain shouting at the stars.
>>
>Actually I liked the random-phone-number plan better.
>
>Let's take a vote.

I vote that I just send e-mail to every possible Internet address and
post to every newsgroup.  Tomorrow.

Shouldn't my spokesmanship be represented in the alt.alien.visitors FAQ?

                            -- K.


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc
From: [e-mail] (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo! Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 07:13:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UseNet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe
Lines: 10

In article <[e-mail]> Null Cypher writes:
>
> Actually I liked the random-phone-number plan better.
>
> Let's take a vote.

Before taking any other vote we should vote an official vote taker.

--
The Clone of Claudio Calvelli
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445
From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 10:19:28 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world
Lines: 5

Yep, I want in on this too.  :)  I'll bet that Mars turns out to be exactly
what we think it is--a big hunka dusty rock.  A face on Mars is like the man
in the moon.  All imagination but no tinkerings of a long dead race.  I'll
bet 100 kugerands (however you spell it) :-)
Colleen
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12008 alt.alien.visitors:9978 sci.skeptic:32140
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!sparc2!news
From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: A Course In Miracles / Reincarnation
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: A Course In Miracles
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 09:39:15 GMT
Lines: 130





                Tom Gorski and Erik Radmall
    had some questions about A Course In Miracles and reincarnation,
    and John Winston and Doug Thompson gave some information about Nicaea

So, Erik asks:

    >What evidence do you have that reincarnation was accepted before the
    >5th century by Christians? Who edited it? What council decided it?
    >What did the Bible originally say?

It wasn't the Council of Nicaea (as John suggested). That was the one where,
as Doug puts it, they "invented" the Trinity. It was two Councils of
Constantinople, (334/348?), which decided to refute the teachings of Origen
(Origines Adamantius).They also confirmed the decision of the Council of
Nicaea to refute the teachings of Arianism (and therefore to raise Jesus to
the status of God). Origen was an early Christian philosopher who I think
went to Greece, although he was originally from Egypt. He taught the pre-
existence of the soul. That is, the soul existed before you were born. This
goes along with the Old Testament, where it says in Genesis something like
"God created man in his own image" (*Past* Tense) When these Councils refuted
Origen, they automatically struck reincarnation from Christian dogma.

I read a lot about this when I was still "searching for the TRUTH", and have
forgotten some of it now, and most of the sources. One very interesting book
was called "Jesus lived in India", but it was in German (don't know the
author). There's probably a translation by now. It may not have been this
book that gave me the quotes, however.

I remember that Jesus said, insisted in fact, that John the Baptist was the
reincarnation of Isiah. (Matthew 11, 15 confirms this, but I believe there is
a better quote somewhere.) Also, it is recounted that Jesus healed a man who
had been blind from birth. (John 9, 1) The disciples asked if the man had
sinned (to deserve this punishment) or his parents. How can a man sin before
he is born, unless he has had a life before?

There really is a lot of information about reincarnation around. Of course,
some of it (maybe a lot of it, as with UFOs) is probably unfounded. But I
must repeat: Delving into past lives will not help your spiritual
development, although it may be fun. Some people seem to get hooked on it.
Future lives may be even more scary, but there are different realities..

Tom says

    > ...the reading I get off of it, is that the only *answer* in the course
    > goes something like "the only answer lies within."

Well, Tom, maybe you were confused by the complexity of the language (this is
not intended as a snide remark, it *is* complex), or your ego got the better
of you and said: "Look, let's face it, we don't want to know about this kind
of thing" as soon as you started. The ego does that, because that's its job.
I assure you, *all* the answers are there, if you take the trouble to look
for them. Certainly the answers are "within" too, although I haven't
uncovered too many there yet either! (But at least some important ones.)

Now I'll accept your challenge, Tom ..

    > Hmmmm...since you have your copy nearby, maybe you'd be willing to try
    > something for me:

    > Somewhere in the workbook, in the first two-dozen lessons or so, is
    > a lesson which goes something like, "I do not know what anything means."

    > I would be very interested to hear what happens if you pick up and
    > momentarily do this lesson while you're reading the text, especially
     > when you're reading those sections which seem to give the exact answers
    > you have in mind above.

    First: "I do not know what anything means." does not come in any of the
first 30 lessons, although similar lessons do come. I have the feeling, Tom,
that you just allowed you ego to simply browse through the first few lessons
and say: "What a load of rubbish".
    After every idea there is an extremely clear description and explanation
of what is to be learned. You are told in the introduction that your ego
might not accept everything. For example, Lesson 1 starts with "Nothing I see
in this room (on this street, from this window, in this place) means
anything". Lesson 2 then continues with "I have given everything I see in
this room (on this street...) all the meaning that it has for me". JUST LOOK
AT THAT. It's so true. *WE* are the ones who give meaning to everything in
this material world. Now I had simply not seen it like that before, but as
soon as I read it I thought to myself "Hey, that's true!" I had assigned
meaning to things subconsciously. Presumably we all do.
    It was probably Lesson 25 you were thinking of, Tom: "I do not know what
anything is for." There follows a very detailed description of the purpose of
and the reason for this idea.
    I must also say in all fairness, that most of the answers to the kind of
questions *we* want to ask come in the Text part (the first part) of the
book. This is where I get "all the answers" from. The second part (the
Exercises) just help you to develop your mind. (You get to recognise you ego
too.)

    > ..your posting about heaven and reincarnation, etc., it sounds very
    > wonderful, but from where does it come and what does it mean?

I'm not an expert, but I do have ideas about this. I'll try to be concise,
and I do not speak for ACIM, just the way I interpret some of it.

Heaven is the original state of everything. Bliss. Being one with God. We
have somehow altered this state for ourselves (by some *mistake*, not a sin)
and believe we are separate from God. We will all return to God (to the
"state" of Heaven) in the end. God has arranged this for us, but only when we
want, as we have free will. We are all souls. (Greys probably are too!) We
have decided (because we feel separate) to take up bodies and live lives. We
(our soul, our spirit) do learn through this procedure. It does help us on
the way back to God. The more we try, the quicker we get back.
    (Digression: We do have to try to improve our spirit, our mind. If we can
recognise our ego (the part of us that wants us to be selfish, to be angry,
to be afraid) then we are well on the way. Jesus gave us a good idea how to
get back to God, but unfortunately, until this century at least, not many
people have tried to follow his ideas. Any kind of punishment, revenge, is
against what Jesus said.)

I am prepared to answer any further questions on Email. Or here, if they
warrant it. I am not an expert, however. I do not speak as an authority on
ACIM. I have not even completed the exercises yet, nor have I read all of the
text. I will do, however.

A word of comfort to all of you who have struggled as far as this:
    We *all* get to Heaven in the end, because we're all part of God. A
Course In Miracles says that there are thousands of ways back to God, and
ACIM is just one of these.

                        Love and blessings to you all.      Paul.

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12011 alt.alien.visitors:9979 sci.skeptic:32143
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed,  7 Oct 92 06:27:09 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Everybody: I just got back from Mt. Shasta last night and will
fill you in on things. Remember OOBE train tonight (wednesday). Same
time same station.
John Winston.  Must go to work now.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Hail Eris)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:59:34 GMT
Lines: 11


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes...
>Yep, I want in on this too.  :)  I'll bet that Mars turns out to be exactly
>what we think it is--a big hunka dusty rock.  A face on Mars is like the man
>in the moon.  All imagination but no tinkerings of a long dead race.  I'll
>bet 100 kugerands (however you spell it) :-)
>Colleen

You're on!

mary
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12012 alt.alien.visitors:9981 sci.skeptic:32145
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!stanford.edu!rutgers!uwvax!zazen!psl.wisc.edu!gorski
From: [e-mail] (Tom Gorski)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: A Course In Miracles / Reincarnation
Keywords: A Course In Miracles
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:04:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Lines: 102

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
>
>                Tom Gorski and Erik Radmall
>    had some questions about A Course In Miracles and reincarnation,
>    and John Winston and Doug Thompson gave some information about Nicaea

Well, you might say that...

>Tom says
>
>> ...the reading I get off of it, is that the only *answer* in the course
>> goes something like "the only answer lies within."
>
>Well, Tom, maybe you were confused by the complexity of the language (this is
>not intended as a snide remark, it *is* complex), or your ego got the better
>of you and said: "Look, let's face it, we don't want to know about this kind
>of thing" as soon as you started. The ego does that, because that's its job.
>I assure you, *all* the answers are there, if you take the trouble to look
>for them. Certainly the answers are "within" too, although I haven't
>uncovered too many there yet either! (But at least some important ones.)

I don't really know what to say about this!!

First of all, I'm somewhat confused by the references to my ego by yours.
Surely, it's so much easier to point out somebody else's foibles as opposed
to one's own, but doesn't that constitute sloppy thinking on a gross scale
in the NewAge-Spiritual Path paradigm?  Mind you, I'm not bothered by this,
so we can talk about my ego if you want to, but I at least wanted to ask
the question.  :-)

Now, as for my opinion regarding the Text, it wasn't formed totally as a
result of my hitting a rhetorical brick wall, as you seem to suggest.
It came from my exploration of a paradox, suggested to its credit by the
text itself.  I'll see if I can explain:

As you merrily plough through the text, you'll come to the parts where
it says that all of your perception-based systems for ingesting information
are hosed up because what you're seeing is your own illusory thoughts,
not what's really there, or something to that effect.  The Text even
mentions in passing that this *includes* the very exercise of reading
the Text in first place.

That's the paradox:  here you're reading a book that has the Wisdom of
the Ages, all of the answers, but you vision might be blurred, so how
can you tell if you're reading it correctly or not?

Let's look at it another way.  Stare at your copy of the Text there on the
table.  What do you see?  Bleached wood pulp, pressed into fibrous sheets,
with strange little ink markings on them.  Yet when you stare at those little
markings, a wonderous transformation seems to take place:  the markings seem
to come alive and seem to take on new meanings!  But the markings themselves
have not changed, have they?  The transformation takes place entirely in your
head!!

>Now I'll accept your challenge, Tom ..

[Description of my suggested exercise, which you didn't _really_ do (:-)),
plus more assumptive references to my ego deleted.]

Well, I guess it's fair to say about ACIM, that it certainly *does* hold
all the answers for those who believe it do be so, for as it says in
Lesson #2, which you quoted,

    "I have given everything I see in this room (on this street...)
        all the meaning that it has for me".

Some final thoughts:

Actually, it may suprise you to learn that I'm not such a big skeptic when
it comes to ACIM.  I assure you I have better things to do with my $50 then
to shell it out for a 3-volume set of ACIM just to poke holes in it....
And then there's my Ma, who I think quite highly of, who's very big on
ACIM with groups both in Boston, MA, and Reedsburg, WI.

Perhaps you were right after all about my ego and the Text.  Perhaps the
fact that I can take a critical look at the Text means that my ego *is*
threatened, and that the material is really onto something in me.  Compare
that to your situation, where your ego publically trumpets the virtues of
ACIM.  To me, this reads that your ego has co-opted the material for its own
purposes.  A truly diabolical unfolding of events, don't you think?  :-)

To wit:

>A word of comfort to all of you who have struggled as far as this:
>    We *all* get to Heaven in the end, because we're all part of God. A
>Course In Miracles says that there are thousands of ways back to God, and
>ACIM is just one of these.

See?  :-)  Actually, according to ACIM, the ego, the part which thinks
of itself as "We" or "I", _doesn't_ make it back to God.  Why?  Because it's
an illusion, an self-referential illusion that think's it is separate from
God.  The most that can happen is that one day, this illusion goes:

  <poooof!>  (The ego disappears in a cloud of greasy black smoke.)

See ya!

>Paul Milsom
>[e-mail]
>Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland

--Tom G.
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
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Rod Beckwith [writes]

>I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN) Colombus would
sail
>off the end of the Earth?

>Here is another clever person with a wonderful example human intellect.
This
>is a quote from a 1865 Boston Post editorial:

>"WELL INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSMIT THE VOICE OVER
>WIRES AND THAT, WERE IT POSSIBLE TO DO SO, THE THING WOULD BE OF NO
>PRACTICAL VALUE."

>Anything is possible......the jury is still out on this one folks.

>Rod

Richard Shumacher [writes]

>You wanna bet?

Rod Beckwith [writes]

>How much are you willing to lose?

Richard Shumacher [writes]

>>$100. How about the same bet I made with Joshua Geller?

>>  If we agree on the basis of Mars Observer data that

>>  (1) the 'face' is artificial, I'll pay you $100.

>>  (2) the 'face' is natural, you pay me one dollar.

>>  If we do not agree on the interpretation of Observer data,
>>  the bet is off.

>>  In any case, the bet expires on 1 January 2001, so that we
>>  don't have to keep track of each other forever.

>>  We must both agree on the interpretation of Observer data
>>  to conclude the bet. We will not appeal to any third party.

>>  The bet will be in force when you agree to all these
>>  conditions and post your acceptance to sci.skeptic.


>>Whattya say? I have $100 worth of confidence in my conclusion.
>>Do you have $1 worth in yours?
>>Richard

Richard,

I accept your offer. I agree with all conditions to this bet. I hope you
don't make this bet with too many people.....It could get quite expensive
for you.

I truly hope the Mars observer does not meet the same fate as the Russian
probes.All information this probe records will be important for a future
manned mission.

Rod




--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




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From: [e-mail] (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:52:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Lines: 15

According to [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith):
>"WELL INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSMIT THE VOICE OVER
>WIRES AND THAT, WERE IT POSSIBLE TO DO SO, THE THING WOULD BE OF NO
>PRACTICAL VALUE."

WELL INFOR... ahem.  Well informed people know the difference
between exploration and technological development (and commercial
exploitation thereof).  This "face on Mars" flap is relevant to the
former, while the quoted text is relevant to the latter; and there
is nothing in common between them.
--
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
    "My favorite phenomenon is when someone mails me or posts to this
     group, either calling me a newbie or telling me that my postings
     are not relevant to alt.non.sequitur."           -- Matt Welsh
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From: [e-mail] (Jean-Marc Vezien)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: A Course In Miracles / Reincarnation
Keywords: A Course In Miracles
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:02:01 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
>
>
>
>
>                 Tom Gorski and Erik Radmall
>     had some questions about A Course In Miracles and reincarnation,
>     and John Winston and Doug Thompson gave some information about Nicaea
>

[info about early christianity deleted]

> Well, Tom, maybe you were confused by the complexity of the language (this is
> not intended as a snide remark, it *is* complex), or your ego got the better
> of you and said: "Look, let's face it, we don't want to know about this kind
> of thing" as soon as you started. The ego does that, because that's its job.
> I assure you, *all* the answers are there, if you take the trouble to look
> for them. Certainly the answers are "within" too, although I haven't
> uncovered too many there yet either! (But at least some important ones.)
>

The idea of a book which has ALL the answers is IMHO a bit premature. We're
still in the childhood of humanity, after all. Of course, you could say my
ego cannot accept such a wonderful book.

> Now I'll accept your challenge, Tom ..
>
>     > Hmmmm...since you have your copy nearby, maybe you'd be willing to try
>     > something for me:
>
>     > Somewhere in the workbook, in the first two-dozen lessons or so, is
>     > a lesson which goes something like, "I do not know what anything means."
>
>     > I would be very interested to hear what happens if you pick up and
>     > momentarily do this lesson while you're reading the text, especially
>      > when you're reading those sections which seem to give the exact answers
>     > you have in mind above.
>
>     First: "I do not know what anything means." does not come in any of the
> first 30 lessons, although similar lessons do come. I have the feeling, Tom,
> that you just allowed you ego to simply browse through the first few lessons
> and say: "What a load of rubbish".
>     After every idea there is an extremely clear description and explanation
> of what is to be learned. You are told in the introduction that your ego
> might not accept everything. For example, Lesson 1 starts with "Nothing I see
> in this room (on this street, from this window, in this place) means
> anything". Lesson 2 then continues with "I have given everything I see in
> this room (on this street...) all the meaning that it has for me". JUST LOOK
> AT THAT. It's so true. *WE* are the ones who give meaning to everything in
> this material world. Now I had simply not seen it like that before, but as
> soon as I read it I thought to myself "Hey, that's true!" I had assigned
> meaning to things subconsciously. Presumably we all do.


I don't want to brag, but one doesn't need any miraculous revelation for that.
Read some philosophy books, and soon everything is meaningless. Don't try and
tell me this is a new idea.

>     It was probably Lesson 25 you were thinking of, Tom: "I do not know what
> anything is for." There follows a very detailed description of the purpose of
> and the reason for this idea.
>     I must also say in all fairness, that most of the answers to the kind of
> questions *we* want to ask come in the Text part (the first part) of the
> book. This is where I get "all the answers" from. The second part (the
> Exercises) just help you to develop your mind. (You get to recognise you ego
> too.)
>
>     > ..your posting about heaven and reincarnation, etc., it sounds very
>     > wonderful, but from where does it come and what does it mean?
>
> I'm not an expert, but I do have ideas about this. I'll try to be concise,
> and I do not speak for ACIM, just the way I interpret some of it.
>
> Heaven is the original state of everything. Bliss. Being one with God. We
> have somehow altered this state for ourselves (by some *mistake*, not a sin)
> and believe we are separate from God. We will all return to God (to the
> "state" of Heaven) in the end. God has arranged this for us, but only when we
> want, as we have free will. We are all souls. (Greys probably are too!) We
> have decided (because we feel separate) to take up bodies and live lives. We
> (our soul, our spirit) do learn through this procedure. It does help us on
> the way back to God. The more we try, the quicker we get back.
>     (Digression: We do have to try to improve our spirit, our mind. If we can
> recognise our ego (the part of us that wants us to be selfish, to be angry,
> to be afraid) then we are well on the way. Jesus gave us a good idea how to
> get back to God, but unfortunately, until this century at least, not many
> people have tried to follow his ideas. Any kind of punishment, revenge, is
> against what Jesus said.)
>

Boy, is that original. "The fall of man", again and again. ALL the cosmogony
myths, throughout the world, say the same thing. Which doesn't mean it's true.
It's just that the universe is so harsh and cold and the man so little and helpless....

> A word of comfort to all of you who have struggled as far as this:
>     We *all* get to Heaven in the end, because we're all part of God. A
> Course In Miracles says that there are thousands of ways back to God, and
> ACIM is just one of these.
>

What if I don't want to come back to God but rest in peace after a pleasant life
spent dreaking bear and loving women ???

>     Love and blessings to you all.      Paul.


Why, thanks !!
Now give me your left cheek .

JM.
-------- A thousand men, a thousand pain
---------- Each pain is different.






















































































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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Eastern UFO Symposium
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:03:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
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Lines: 74


    [e-mail] writes:
    This is a call for ideas, volunteers, speakers, workers,
    locations, helpers, attendees, any and all who want to get
    involved!  Please reply either via private email or let's get
    this discussion going here, alright?


... well, the first thing you're going to have to look for is
sponsorship, so you have up-front money.  Hotels, for instance,
require a lot of up-front money to reserve convention space.  So,
typically, do universities for large projects (universities also
typically require a recognized organization, to deal with).  (Both
will require signing of contracts, making you and your sponsors
legally liable, etc, etc.).  Up-front money will also be required to
provide funds to pay for transportation (if necessary) and lodging for
your major speakers.

   Up-front money can come from several sources.  (Up-front money is
the money required *before* you can get money from attendees -- the
money to actually get the conference "off the ground".)  Your sponsors
(you might try FUFOR, MUFON, or CUFOS, or more local groups) might
fork over some, sale of vendor tables (which is why just about every
such conference has 'em), or other pre-event fundraising (selling
t-shirts, etc.)  This is not a fun thing.  You may have to go into
debt, and hope ticket-sales will bail you out.  (The world sf
convention in 1988, I think it was -- the last one in Baltimore --
went into the hole in a big way, and the convention organizers were
responsible for paying it off.  It took years...)


   After you get the up-front money, you can contact "name" people,
since the more of them you have the more likely it is that attendees
will fork over the bucks.  Also, the more "name" people, the more
likely that vendors will purchase tables.

   Then you have to assemble a staff to make sure everything works.
This includes assigning people to make sure your speakers don't get
lost, and actually get to the place they are supposed, technical
details like microphones and slide-projectors, TVs, VCRs, and
electrical power (if you're at a hotel, they'll offer to do it all for
you, at union rates.)  Then there's having tables and chairs in the
right place at the right time, printing programs, badges, handouts,
and a myriad of other paper products.  Endless details.


   Then the conference.  Don't expect to see anything or do anything
but fight the fires of chaos, since you won't have thought of
everything, and the programs will probably arrive late, printed
in Swahili.  Hope you get some volunteers who will work for you,
because you'll discover that half your staff has beri-beri, and
you need 20 extra people in addition to do the things you didn't
think of.

   If it sounds like a nightmare, it can be.  There are, of course,
a number of experienced cadres in this sort of thing -- they put on
regional, national, and international science fiction conventions.
(There are also professional convention folk, who put on the big
Star Trek and Beatlefest-type conventions; they typically are
well-bankrolled, and know how to do stuff.  They also take on
volunteers, so you might want to try volunteering for the next one
of these (professional or non-professional) conventions in your
area -- for instance Philcon is coming up...)

   I suggest you talk to the "Philcon" folks -- they're local to you,
and they put on a fine convention every year.  They have a lot of
experience in this regard, and can give you sound advice.  You may
even wish to make your proposed conference a part of Philcon (next
year), which would give you a huge leg up on the mundane details, and
give them some interesting programming.

Hope this helps,

Charles
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From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: John?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:35:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Everybody: I just got back from Mt. Shasta last night and will
>fill you in on things................................
>John Winston.

John, You said on your show that you got kicked off the net. What
happened? You're back?


--
=========================================================================
||@@@@||         Denise Solis -- [e-mail]       ||@@@@||
||@@@@||  Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty  ||@@@@||
=========================================================================
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From: [e-mail] (Good good good good vibrations)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: auras
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:34:38 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com

I was told that my statement was unclear, so I will try one more time.


When I was a little girl I aw auras, now as an adult I still see auras.

This is NOT and I do repeat, NOT a figment of my imagination.

So the remark about if this is a figment of my imagination, then I must have
a really good one, meant, Your nuts buddy!  I can see them.  You can't tell
me I can't.

Hope that clears it up.

Kathie  ;.)
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:56:18 GMT
Lines: 57

Chip,

FIRST POINT>I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN)
Colombus would sail off the end of the Earth?


According to [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith):
>"WELL INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSMIT THE VOICE OVER
>WIRES AND THAT, WERE IT POSSIBLE TO DO SO, THE THING WOULD BE OF NO
>PRACTICAL VALUE."

>>WELL INFOR... ahem.  Well informed people know the difference
>>between exploration and technological development (and commercial
>>exploitation thereof).  This "face on Mars" flap is relevant to the
>>former, while the quoted text is relevant to the latter; and there
>>is nothing in common between them.

Well, you ignored my first point entirely & then let me have it about
something you don't feel is relevant. Should I type real
ssslllooowwwlllllyyyy so you can make the connection?

My point being that if it were up to the neysayers & doubting Thomases in
the world, we as a species would still be gathering nuts & berries. We
would still
all think the world was flat. All crowded in Europe,Asia,Africa,etc.
Fearing the
unknown big water, ignoring the fact that birds can fly & that with a
little ingenuity we could too.

It is the mindset of the skeptic that I am making reference to. The out &
out denial of an issue before all the evidence is in. Taking the walk off
of the well beaten path to discovery. Whether it be technological
exploration,physical exploration,mental
exploration,etc.,etc.,etc..................................
...........................................................................
....

I hope this clears things up a little. Lets get another thing straight
while we are at it. I am not saying that the unusual features on Mars are
artificial structure(s). What I am saying is that they are unusual enough
to warrant further study. I am not alone in this theory. Why must people
always scoff at new or different ideas. Oh well, just read my .sig that
might reveal a clue. :-)
                           V
                        V
--                        V
                        V
                        V
--                         V
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




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From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail] (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:30:32 GMT
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes in part:
|> Well, you ignored my first point entirely & then let me have it about
|> something you don't feel is relevant. Should I type real
|> ssslllooowwwlllllyyyy so you can make the connection?
[...]
|> It is the mindset of the skeptic that I am making reference to. The out &
|> out denial of an issue before all the evidence is in.

I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can.  You are still not getting it.  Try
to pay attention this time:
   "out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic".  The mindset
   of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence
   for it?"

|> FIRST POINT>I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN)
|> Colombus would sail off the end of the Earth?
Irrelevant.  Only a few non-skeptics believed the world was flat.
On the other hand, I'd probably have bet against him finding an unknown
continent.  Of course, he probably would have bet that way, too.  I'd
also have bet him that he wouldn't make it to the indies.  He'd have taken
that bet, but I wonder who would have paid off?

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (SEAN MCNAIR)
Subject: SEX with aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 26
Sender: [e-mail] (UNT USENet Adminstrator)
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:59:08 GMT

     I recently had sex with an alien. The alien in question lives in my
room. He is yurple in color (yellow with purple polkadots) and he emanates
facts at me. For example, I know that he is from the planet xenon, and is
rather small for his age. (600 yrs) He is just an adolescnt, as this species
of animal (or I should say, alien intelligence) lives to be four thousand
years of age. He weighs about ninety pounds. (I carried him to the scale) He
does'nt come in any particular shape, he merely takes on the shape of his
environment. (He can change shape at will) He doesn't seem to have many
bones, just a jaw with sharp teeth. He likes to eat, on occasion. (about
every two weeks he polishes off an entire jar of of peanut butter. He seems
to prefer creamy jif as opposed to crunchy.)
     The strange thing about this alien, other than the fact that he usually
hangs out with me all the time, is that he is empathetic to all my desires,
and that he is a doppleganger. For example, last night, I saw a television
show that was all about me! It was a news show, and the newscasters kept
saying things when I wasn't listening clearly about things I'd been doing,
reporting secretly to the rest of the population about what I'd been up to!
Then, during a commercial, the women started screaming about Tater Tots (tm)
and a few Radioactive Tater Tots (tm) fell on the rug! It was then that I
got some sexual feelings for a woman that I saw in the hospital earlier
today. Then, the yurple (that's what I call him) changed into the woman I
was seeing earlier, and we had sex. The odd thing about is that the yurple,
I think, I'm not sure, bit off my penis and swallowed it! It grew back the
next day, but now I'm not sure what to do about the yurple.

                                 Gumby
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:08:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 40
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Robert,[you write]

>I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can.  You are still not getting it.  Try
>to pay attention this time:
>"out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic".  The mindset
>of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence
>for it?"


The evidence sir is the photographs that were returned by the viking probe.
There is not enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what the
structure is, so we must go back & re-photograph, re-analyze, re-evaluate,
etc. Most skeptics say "What for, it's just a clump of eroded rock"

That Bobby my boy is what I am talking about. Skeptics will not open their
eyes
enough to allow that they might not know everything beforehand.

Just a wait & see attitude is all that it takes. What a difficult concept
to grasp.

Human nature is a labrynth that is as boundless & as confounding as the
universe as we know it. Nuff said!!!

Rod







--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: auras
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:40:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 21

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>I was told that my statement was unclear, so I will try one more time.
>
>
>When I was a little girl I aw auras, now as an adult I still see auras.
>
>This is NOT and I do repeat, NOT a figment of my imagination.

So what do you see?

>So the remark about if this is a figment of my imagination, then I must have
>a really good one, meant, Your nuts buddy!  I can see them.  You can't tell
>me I can't.
>
>Hope that clears it up.
>
>Kathie  ;.)

Rich

[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Geoff Lane)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors
Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:53:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, England, M13 9PL.
Lines: 5


When will these people learn to use paragraphs....
--
Geoff. Lane. | Internet: [e-mail] | Janet: [e-mail]
UTS Sys Admin,  Manchester Computing Centre,  Oxford Rd,  Manchester, M13 9PL
"The Royal Family must think the entire world smells of wet paint."
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From: [e-mail] (Scott Drellishak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology
Date: 8 Oct 1992 00:28:30 GMT
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
)Robert,[you write]
)>I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can.  You are still not getting it.  Try
)>to pay attention this time:
)>"out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic".  The mindset
)>of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence
)>for it?"
)
)The evidence sir is the photographs that were returned by the viking probe.
)There is not enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what the
)structure is, so we must go back & re-photograph, re-analyze, re-evaluate,
)etc. Most skeptics say "What for, it's just a clump of eroded rock"

Actually, skeptics say, "Hmm -- it's either (a) a lump of rock which
just happens to look something like a face, or (b) an alien artifact.
Since believing (b) requires a huge leap of faith, I'll assume it's
(a) until somebody proves otherwise."  Basically, we know that lumps
of rock exist, but we don't know of any aliens -- so, it takes more
proof than one suspiciously face-like rock formation to prove the
existence of aliens.

)That Bobby my boy is what I am talking about. Skeptics will not open their
)eyes
)enough to allow that they might not know everything beforehand.

Do you honestly think this photograph should convince anyone that
aliens exist?

)Just a wait & see attitude is all that it takes. What a difficult concept
)to grasp.

But wait.  We *never* have perfect information -- there is always
doubt.  Science is a practice of successive best guesses.  At the
moment, as far as I know, the evidence isn't strong enough to support
the alien artifact hypothesis, so the best guess is, it's a rock.  If
new photographs show scaffolding, then this best guess may change.

)Human nature is a labrynth that is as boundless & as confounding as the
)universe as we know it. Nuff said!!!
)
)Rod

word.

Scott
--
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Scott Drellishak   [e-mail]                          |
|                "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality."                   |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
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From: [e-mail] (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:31:04 GMT
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[e-mail] (Hail Eris) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen
>Anderson) writes...
>>Yep, I want in on this too.  :)  I'll bet that Mars turns out to be exactly
>>what we think it is--a big hunka dusty rock.  A face on Mars is like the man
>>in the moon.  All imagination but no tinkerings of a long dead race.  I'll
>>bet 100 kugerands (however you spell it) :-)
>>Colleen

>You're on!

wait a minute, it was *my* dollar she was putting her hundred up against.
I am not willing to bet even *one* krugerrand. if she wants to place one
with you, that's between you and her...

once again, would everyone I have already bet with (or who would like to)
send me mail stating the amount they are betting / would like to bet, the
odds that have been agreed on / that they would like, and the method of
judgement (so far there are two; one being that the two bettors agree that
the formations are / are not artificial, the other being accepting the judge-
ment of mr. tim maroney).

josh


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From: [e-mail] (Lou Ciphre)
Subject: where is GARY?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:34:53 GMT
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where are you gary?  it's been a while.

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From: [e-mail] (C J Rogers (Chris))
Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:09:18 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes in part:

>> [...]

>
>I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can.  You are still not getting it.  Try
>to pay attention this time:
>   "out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic".  The mindset
>   of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence
>   for it?"

WRONG!!  That is a cynic.  The midset of a skeptic is:
      "I am going to scoff at the very idea of this new notion
       until someone comes along with enough evidence to make me
       look like a blabbering fool!"


>|> FIRST POINT>I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN)
>|> Colombus would sail off the end of the Earth?

>Irrelevant.  Only a few non-skeptics believed the world was flat.

Not quite.  It may not be an accurate metaphor, but it does prove his point.
The point being that people held one belief and were so unwilling to give a
stroke of possibility to the opposition that they place money against it.

That is a lot of the problem that is surrounding the "face."  NO ONE KNOWS for
certain what it is.  Everyone has ideas, but those aren't proof.  I think the
big question is - will you be willing to accept the truth when it is
discovered?

>On the other hand, I'd probably have bet against him finding an unknown
>continent.  Of course, he probably would have bet that way, too.  I'd
>also have bet him that he wouldn't make it to the indies.  He'd have taken
>that bet, but I wonder who would have paid off?

You would have.  Then when they actually discovered what they found, you
could crawl out of your grave and take your money back.


Later!
C J Rogers.


"Ignorance is bliss, but intellegence is happiness" -- Yangthei
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From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Sender: [e-mail] (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:38:43 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
|> Robert,[you write]
|>
|> >I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can.  You are still not getting it.  Try
|> >to pay attention this time:
|> >"out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic".  The mindset
|> >of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence
|> >for it?"
|>
|>
|> The evidence sir is the photographs that were returned by the viking probe.
|> There is not enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what the
|> structure is, so we must go back & re-photograph, re-analyze, re-evaluate,
|> etc. Most skeptics say "What for, it's just a clump of eroded rock"
|>
|> That Bobby my boy is what I am talking about. Skeptics will not open their
|> eyes
|> enough to allow that they might not know everything beforehand.
|>
|> Just a wait & see attitude is all that it takes. What a difficult concept
|> to grasp.
|>
|> Human nature is a labrynth that is as boundless & as confounding as the
|> universe as we know it. Nuff said!!!
|>
|> Rod

I simply refuse to accept your characterization of what "most skeptics"
say, because you are just plain wrong.  Because, Roddy my lad, I know
an awful lot of skeptics, and every damn one of them says, "Sure, as
long as we're sending a probe to Mars, let's be sure to look at that
place."

As to the "evidence": there are, in fact, not one or two, but many 1000's
of photographs from many missions to Mars, and plenty of other data
about the planet.  Of all the gazillions of bits of information we
have about Mars, all but a tiny handful tell a consistent story of a
dead planet that has never been inhabited.  THESE ARE THE FACTS.

YOU are the one who is ignoring the facts and the evidence.

Like most skeptics, I agree with you that we should collect more data
about Mars (and every other aspect fo the universe).
Please stop saying that, because I am willing to predict what will
be found, that somehow I am unable or unwilling to grasp the fact
that we don't actually know yet and I might be wrong.  Try to
get it through your head that, even though one can't be sure,
there actually is very good reason to expect that the structures
that you think are ambiguous, are in fact rock formations.

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Artist # 1)
Subject: WAX OR THE DISCOVERY OF TV AMONG THE BEES: visitation film
Message-ID: <+qtzp9#@rpi.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: rdrc.rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:30:42 GMT
Lines: 199

Hi. Here is a film that you will not read about in the UFO press. I think that readers of alt.alien.visitor will find it interesting for many reasons. It
was shot on location at the White Sands Missile Range (yes, including
Trinity Site), and is very much about the experience of being visited by
aliens of the sort Valle hypothesizes about (i.e. -interdimensional- contact
with the truly alien). Lots of interesting synchronicity came along during the making (for instance, though I beganwith ideas concerning Dan Fry, the man in
the pork pie hat, and moved on to Roswell (the film took about 6 years, and started in '85), it wasn't ntil several years in that I actually learned about
EBE's) So this is the only film you may ever find that thanks Detlev Bronk
in the titles,and means it.



-------------------------------------



It's been about 2 months since I last posted about my electronic
cinema sci-fi feature:

===========================================================
"WAX or the discovery of television among the bees" (85:00)
===========================================================

Since that time, the film version has successfully opened in New
York. If you want the reviews, a description, etc. I have a 62k
text file I can send you. Write me at :
[e-mail]        (my name is David Blair)

I made the film, and now I have to get it shown (i.e. I am self-
distributing), which is why I am taking the liberty of posting.


To warm you up, here's a bunch of quotes:

William Gibson (author, Neuromancer, Count Zero, etc.) on WAX:

"Winningly strange video narrative from a singular talent.
Authentically peculiar. Like something from the network vaults of
an alternate universe."

Larry McCaffery (editor, "Storming the Reality Studio: A Casebook
on Cyberpunk and Postmodern Fiction", Duke University Press):

"WAX strikes me as a truly major accomplishment, intellectually
rich, verbally inventive, visually stunning, and -- perhaps most
remarkable of all -- as emotionally resonant as any film I've
come across in recent years."

Brooks Landon (author, "Aesthetics of Ambivalence: Rethinking SF
Film in the Age of Electronic (Re)Production", Greenwood Press)

"WAX is like no movie you have ever seen. Call it postmodern,
postcyberpunk... or post cinema, the point is this 85 minute
celebration of the possibilities of "electronic cinema" may well
indicate the future direction of SF film, if not "film" itself.

William T. Vollman (author, "You Bright and Risen Angels", "The
Iceshirt", "The Rainbow Stories", all Penguin/Viking Press)

"I admire your dark and paranoid visions in all of their
intergalactic complexity."

Timothy Leary

"WAX is a treat for the eyeballs, a delight for the receptor
sites, a brilliant illumination for our left brains and our right
brains!"





Here are the screenings:

Bern:
Kunstmuseum Bern
October 22, 24, 25
(on film)


Cleveland:
Cleveland Cinematheque
weekend of Nov. 6th. (4 shows)
(on film)


Minneapolis:
University Film Society
Nov. 6-12th
(on film)


San Francisco:
Stanford Computer Systems Lab Colloquium (EE380)
Wed. Nov.4, 4:15pm
(this class is carried on Stanford's SITN network, distributed to
a variety of sites around the country)
(talk with video)


San Francisco:
New Langton Arts.
Sat. Nov. 7, evening

This is part of a 3 day conference called "Cybernarrations: A
Festival of post-Futurity" organized by Larry McCaffery (Storming
the Reality Studio). The line up is:

Thursday: Larry McCaffery, Brooks Landon, Misha, and John Shirley
talk about literary "cybernarrations".

Friday: Bruce Sterling, St. Jude, and Takayuki Tatsumi talk about
Sterling's new book.

Sat: WAX, and then talk with DB, Richard Kadrey, and Scott
Bukatman about visual "cybernarrations".
(on video)


Sydney:
as part of
TISEA (Third International Seminar on Electronic Arts)

WAX will be screening in the Reception Hall at the Sydney Opera
House Nov. 10-13, 2.30-4 pm.
Lecture by DB on Friday

Largest electronic arts conference ever held in Australia... it
appears that there are over 100 invited participants, from every
sub-species of the electronic arts. If you are in NSW, you should
attend!
(on video)


Melbourne:
as part of
EXPERIMENTA
Sat. Nov. 20th , State Film Theatre
Biennial festival of experimental film/video, with screenings,
installations, performance, music, cyber-culture, and talks.
Certainly much better than anything we have in the US.
Q&A session with DB after
(on video)


Amsterdam
Rialto Cinema
Nov. 17
(on film)


Tucson:
Arizona Center for the Media Arts
Dec. 3-6 (six shows?)
Possible talk.
(on film)


Honolulu
Hawaiian Intl. Film Festival
Varsity Theatre, Nov. 30th
Art Theatre (?), also Nov. 30th
present at both sessions
(on film)


San Francisco:
Roxie Cinema
opens Jan. 1st for a one week run (24 shows, I think)
(on film)


San Francisco:
UC Berkeley
Jan. 8 and Jan.9th
(on film)


London:
Scala Theatre, London
(Dec. or January)
(on film)


More dates in the UK will be posted next time.


Thanks for your attention. If you think of a good venue, let me
know!

If you are curious about cassettes, I am selling a limited
edition of 500, signed and numbered, to help pay off the post
production and distribution expenses. They are $36 postpaid. My
address is

David Blair
P.O. Box 174,
Cooper Station
New York, NY 10276